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Everything posted by IMHAL

  1. It is an equivalent of the Brexit referendum process and subsequent result, granted that it was an extreme example. Few wanted the Brexit we have now, yet here we are...is this democracy.....no... is it a flawed process...yes! I see you've retreated to your mind bunker already. You are not ready for this are you. If you remember...there was no second referendum....you said yourself that people were sick of the endless rangling...they just wanted closure that respected...what? .....the will of the people..which was to disenfranchise 48% of the people and deliver a result that even few leavers wanted at the actual point of the referendum. Remember....democracy....the will of the people....all of the people.
  2. Note the word 'hypothetical' in my example, a far fetched example granted. The process is the same tho. Only 10% of the people would have voted for the Brexit we have now....yet here we are. The government seemingly disregarding the majority who would never have contenanced the Brexit we have now at the referendum...if that is not the process of democracy gone wrong then I don't know what is. You'd do well to ponder on that example given before going back into your mind bunker.
  3. Irrelevant. The question of right or wrong is a second order effect to the process being enacted correctly in terms of democracy alone. Hypothetically, if people choose to vote to exterminate all people over the age of 50, then that is a valid outcome of a democratic process, if the process is enacted in such a way that respects the majority of the will of the people. If the process is run correctly then that is the outcome, end of. If however you run the process in such a way that you exclude the over 50's from deciding what their fait is then it is incorrect - democracy is about the people, all of the people. Demo 'the people' Greek. Kratos 'rule'. Democracy, the rule of the people. Not likely - How could this possibly happen by accident? You could for example run a referendum that asks if the the under 50's should be prioritised. Yes or No in a referendum. In the event of a yes vote, it was agreed that the politicians would be given free reign over priorities of the over 50's in all matters - post referendum the over 50's would then be excluded from any further decisions. Their voice would not be not be heard from that point onwards. Few wanted the outrageous option of actually exterminating the over 50's during the referendum, but that was the result of this hypothetical political process. That is legitimate outcome according to you....yet not really the popular 'will of the people' or intention at the time of the referendum. The process was flawed...can you see how? Democracy gone bonkers. Easilly done. See Brexit as a real life and real world example. 10% of people wanted this Brexit...yet here we are...
  4. Totally illogical. Of course a 'democratic' political process can come to the wrong answer. Ask your friend Putin, he'll always get elected...even if he has to put his rivals in prison....or 'disappear' them. Yes - it's a process argument. Democracy is a process to ensure that the will of the people is enacted. The current version of Brexit was only supported by 10% of the people at the referendum....the process failed....democracy failed. Sorry old boy....you can keep on convincing yourself that this turd is a succulent sausage....I'm not buyimg it.
  5. Hoohooo...Brexit just keeps getting better.....there's a headline that leavers should be proud of. Brexiteers must be getting awful twitchy....did they do the right thing? Did they not? Were they smoking too much weed that clouded their judgement or did they ingest too many magic mushrooms?.....nah....they've always been a little low on processing speed. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-lancashire-58753203
  6. Bold: I do agree with that, but there are degrees of imperfect data and outright wrong data. In fact I agree with the statement in italics in so much as a flawed system or process can be considered legitimate in law. But that does not mean that 'the machine' had come to the correct conclusion. The fact the resultant democratic outcome of the referendum would only have been supported by 10% of the popular vote is testimony to the fact that the machine mangled democracy in this instance. They got the process wrong.
  7. That's correct (in bold). The main problem is that the democratic process of arriving at the decision to stay or leave was flawed. Evidenced by the fact we ended up with a Brexit that only 10% would have voted for (note that no information or data is needed, just peoples intentions). I have made the case for why the process was flawed many times before and I don't want to repeat myself. The rest of your post is largely irrelevant and illogical.
  8. I'd hazard a guess that the gov stuffed up and put 'the fear' into people causing tem to panick. The darfth of lorry drivers does not help...'the people put two and two together and did what everyone does...panick first. Me neither...actually I only believe in the unpopular ones, usually they are rather boring and based on some facts. Mmmmm....I leave that sort of stuff for you to ponder.
  9. Not sure about conclusions being drawn....consiracy theories maybe? They were suddenly abducted by aliens? Remainers 'dissapeared' them? I'm sure you are the type who has a theory that will give us a belly laugh.
  10. I see fishing is kicking off again. Brexit is a divisive little beasty...divide the people domestically, constant wrangles with the EU, Northern Ireland in turmoil...shortages everywhere.....what a turd Brexit is turning out to be. House prices are roaring ahead (hussar!), news worthy? Yes, but not a mention of dry petrol stations up and down the country in todays BBC new site...I guess that's too much like bad news for us to bear. But according to the local head case...we must 'think all is well'....just eat the turd and pretend it's a succulent sausage. Brexit Britain - what what!
  11. Well I don't know the in's and out's of how this works, but, if the government secured debt at a rate of X% for 10 years (for example) and they pays that back with devalued sterling. Is that not the same as inflating away debt? Just as taking on a fixed rate mortage at 2% for 5 years and then everyone getting a 20% pay rise over the term of the mortage...effectively your debt has been eroded.
  12. All three petrol station in our town (50k people) have no petrol or diesel, all have lights on with prices advertised (as if open and business as usual) but all cordoned off when you drive in. The nearest 'other' petrol stations are 20 miles away. This is getting really fecking annoying, especially as I am constantly told there is no problem....... well, it is a fecking problem.
  13. You are getting all petulant...but it's getting late now. Pop a pill and get some sleep.
  14. I said the EU was flawed as is every institution, it is not beyond critisism and I stand by that. I'll be the first to call out failings in the EU and in our 'deeply flawed' institions. All organisation need to be held to account. Thanks for pointing out that I am unbiased! Point stands. You have gone off on a bender. Get some rest.
  15. Yep, the system was gamed, well and truly. I am constantly surprised that it's not obvious to all. Perhaps that's because of our (collective) ego. The old saying rings true 'pride falleth before man'. That is the lesson we are going to learn at great cost.
  16. Yeh yeh.... whatever you say. Get some rest....there are organisations out there that can help you.
  17. I don't know about that, but, such a change in personallity and beliefs are indicative of mental health problems. I feel a little sorry for him..
  18. Yep...he gone...totally lost the plot. The mental gymnastics have done his brain in.
  19. Give over, it's no more flawed that any other. I can't name an institution that isn't flawed. What matters is is being out of that institution better or worse for us. Clearly, going by what is happening...we are worse off...unless you like eating turds.
  20. And that was the problem. There was never a opportunity to clarify the actual direction. Hense we are where we are...a turd has come out of the sausage machine...and you are chewing on it with glee and trying to convince everyone that it's tasty. Pull the other one and get a life!
  21. Yep - you are nuts. You can't say because you 'think' Brexit is a success that it will actually be a success. You've gone all absolutley deluded - Comical Ali eat your heart out - you have conpetition (Alla rest his soul).
  22. Don't be silly. That's just a proceedural mechanism. It serves you ill to deny that the democratic process has failed, this pustule will rumble under surface until the pain is too great to bear.
  23. Nope...a destination is just an initial destination, one that has to be clear if you want to prove inforned choice. The fact all relationships evolve over time by mutual consent is nor here nor there. It is absolutley necessary to know the landing spot. Brexit failed in this regard as it had multiple paths, most of which were very unpopular...... and we are where we are....the least popular Brexit.... I don't know how anyone can claim the process to be a success when this Brexit was only supported by 10% at the referendum. You could say that hard Brexiteers rode roughshod over the will of the people...now that you can say.
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