Jump to content
House Price Crash Forum


  • Posts

  • Joined

  • Last visited

Posts posted by enrieb

  1. I also keep the pre 1992 copper coins, I expect that the price of copper in sterling will rise even more over the next few years and this will cause a great deal of the coins out there to be melted down, this is what happens durring a high inflation.

    Now if we are talking 30-40 years out, its not just the price of copper that could give them value, even if the price of copper comes back down in sterling. The fact that most of them have been melted down could give the remaining ones a rare value.

    Spinks coin cataloge recomends that you DO NOT CLEAN coins at all, as this would destroy any rare premium that they could have in the future, eg: a 1902-10 penny can be worth upto £7 pounds, but if you clean it, there is nothing to date it and it would lose 90 percent of its rare value, as it could then just be a fake that has been made recently.

    Copper coins should bever be cleaned or washed, they may be lightly brushed with a brush that is not too harsh.

    Also there is this link from the telegraph last year


  2. I've always been a firm believer that gold is the perfect embodiment of human energy and effort. I also believe in conservation of energy. How long does it take to build a new house these days? Let's say that a dozen men take three months to build an average sized house. How long would a dozen men need to mine 550oz of gold in a mine shaft? Anybody have any ideas? Is it less than 3 months?



    I share a similar theory, I became intersted in gold after spending a great deal of time looking into the peak oil theory, It became important for me to understand the economics of the world, so that I would better understand the peak oil effects upon the world economy.

    I had always considered myself quite well informed about politics, current events and also the economy, though due the that amount of new research I had to do into the subject, so that I would better understand the implications of peak oil, I then realised that before I saw only shadows of concepts about these complex matters.

    When I eventually re-eduacted myself away from the newsnight/keynesian, court intrigue, bbc/babble and learnt the austrian economic model, the works of Murry N Rothbard and the problems with the dollar economy (a problem that we have followed in the UK) I then started to look more seriously at gold. I did not jump into the market at first, I waited for over a year and missed out on a lot of the early gains, though I felt that I did need to spend at least a year looking into the subject.

    Going back to your above point and the relevance of gold to energy, it is from the peak oil side of the fence that I also see this, in peak oil camps has been mentioned that there should be an 'energy backed curreny'

    and as you point out as the amoint of energy needed to mine and process and oz of gold is quite considerable, but is also a fixed amount of energy, in recent years the oil price has been incredibly low (in part due to a cold war stratagy by the US against the former soviet union) though the over production by opec that made the price of oil as low as $10 at the same time gold was at an all time nominal low, these prices are now a price consigned to history. Gold always has a relationship with the value of oil and as oil rises then so eventually will gold. Gold is a the perfect medium of exchange for an energy backed curreny.

  3. To understand why people are so bullish for gold, you should read through the 'gold' thread in the main discussion part of the forum, make sure you read all the links and watch all the videos and then after all that maybe spend a quite a bit of time thinking about it all. Try to understand the other side of the argument against gold so that you can test the pro gold position, but theres probably nothing anyone can add in one single post that will give you somekind of secret knowledge or understanding of it all.

    hopefully this video will help a little


  4. Merchants of death

    The United States, acting through surrogate allies in Chad and neighboring states has trained and armed the Sudan Peoples' Liberation Army, headed until his death in July 2005 by John Garang, trained at the US Special Forces school at Fort Benning, Georgia.

    By pouring arms into first southeastern Sudan and since discovery of oil in Darfur into that region as well, Washington fueled the conflict that led to tens of thousands dying and several million driven to flee their homes. Eritrea hosts and supports the Sudan People's Liberation Army (SPLA), the umbrella NDA opposition group, and the Eastern Front and Darfur rebels.

    There are two rebel groups fighting in Sudan's Darfur region against the Khartoum central government of President Omar al-Bashir - the Justice for Equality Movement and the larger Sudan Liberation Army (SLA).

    The Pentagon has been busy training African military officers in the US, much as it has trained Latin American officers for decades. Its International Military Education and Training program has provided training to military officers from Chad, Ethiopia, Eritrea, Cameroon and the Central African Republic.

    Much of the arms that have fueled the killing in Darfur and the south have been brought in via murky, protected private "merchants of death" such as the notorious former KGB operative, now with offices in the US, Victor Bout, who has been cited repeatedly in recent years for selling weapons across Africa. US government officials strangely leave his operations in Texas and Florida untouched despite the fact he is on the Interpol wanted list for money laundering.


  5. what % of your savings have you put in gold?

    5-10 percent and no-more the experts recomend, I personaly have a higher percentage and that's risky, anything over 5-10 percent is a gamble. Read this thread and all the links,


    there are for and against arguments, this thread just won't die, when HPC actually happens and this forum is no more, then we should rename this forum GPC as all the bulls that are buying houses at this moment will then be buying gold at way over the value, and that will be the time to sell gold and maybe invest in oooh houses?

  6. Okay, so why will the banks lend me the money to buy a house,

    but not secured gold?

    If you buy a house with a mortgage you don't own the house until you have paid off the mortgage, they own it and they can take it back when you fail to keep up payments. They will lend to anyone with a pulse when house prices are going up as if you fail to keep up the payment they make cash of the interest and from selling the house back into a bull market.

    A house is in a fixed location it tangible like gold but not liquid whereas gold is both tangible and liqiud. You cannot do a runner with the house as it has a fixed location, with gold you could skip the country, that's why they would need the loan secured against an asset as was pointed out earlier in the thread.

    liquid tangible


    Gold and other precious metals are assets that are both tangible and liquid (i.e. easily traded), unlike real estate which is tangible but not liquid, or company shares and bonds which are liquid but not tangible.
  7. I am very bullish on gold and have purchased quite a large amount for someone of my income bracket, but I would never advise anybody to borrow to invest, unless you have some special inside information about a comet hitting the earth/ thermo nuclear war/ zombie invasion/ alien attack or impending currency collapse.

    Though I feel that a currency collapse due to the expansion of money supply could at some point push gold up to a much higher value, maybe even combined with the peak oil problem in the not to distant future, I just don't think borrowing to invest is ever a good idea because WE/I could be wrong, they could come up with a new form of energy that replaces oil (I know that's highly improbable, but imagine what that would do the USA trade deficits and economy if it was the USA that came up with it and was the only supplier)

    I don't think that the US will manage to sort their economic and energy problems out, I also don't think the UK will get a grip of its problems, gold may turn out to be an effective store of value, and in the rare event of a currency collapse it may become a lottery ticket that also actually has an intrinsic value.

    I have put my money where my mouth is by investing in gold but I also have an vested interest in talking it up, (though at this moment I am still buying, so may be good to talk it down a little) just don't ever borrow to invest. The Gold thread that we have on here has plenty of good links and info about gold and the reasons why a person could consider investing, just don't get swept up in the hype. It took me a year of research before I made the move into gold, I feel confident and am not worried by the ebb and flow of the daily price. If your going to be in gold, be in it for the long term, don't expect to buy 10 ounces and for the currency to collapse the following week.

    Now more importantly, for £200,000 you could buy one thousand, six hundred and fifty two 10 gram bars of gold, if you get a good polish builder you could make a dolls house out of them and according to our friend the estate agent the price of 'houses can only go up!' compound that with a house of solid gold (and gold can only go up)and I think you well could become the richest person in the world within no time at all, way more richer that that kid that bought the chicken that shits golden eggs.

  8. Has this thread been created to persuade people to vote UKIP? because if it is then its not doing a very good job.

    I suspect its a newlab/tory activist trying to discredit UKIP by putting across some kind of sun-reader jedi-mind-trick bad logic.

    To hear any person from a political party telling people how 'their' party has 'the answers/solution' to the problems that exist, just makes my lie detector go way off the scale. No politician is ever going to solve the problems that exist in the country, its up to individuals to stand up and educate themselves, politically and economically so that they can improve their lives.

    Democracy is not just about voting once every four years for the most convincing liar, its about educating yourself and your friends and taking back of control of the decisions that effect your life. The best way to do this is by voting stratigically to stop govenments forming majorities, be that labour, tory, libdem or even UKIP. Vote to take away power, not to bestowe it.

  9. Japan had a large trade surplus when they had their economic problems, Japan produced goods that the rest of the world wanted, Japan has a strong work ethic and was/is one of the world leaders when it comes to personel savings.

    I just don't think we can compare Japans asset price bubble to the one in the US/UK at all


    Back on topic, as for the day-to-day price of gold, don't try to measure sea level by the highs and lows of the waves, look for a long term trend and the relationship towards other assets. Gold

    is not for everyone and if you want a short term profit invest in magic beans. If you think there going to be inflation, its good to own gold, if you don't think theres going to be inflation don't buy gold.

    Off topic, I found this link while looking up 'japan boom and bust' I was actually skiming through it trying to find something relevant about economics untill I realised what the page was about


  10. It's recomended that you don't clean coins at all, it destroys any rare value it may have. Even bullion coins could gain a rare value in the future should many from that year be lost, stolen or melted down.

    I also buy quite a few krugers from Chard, and I did clean the first ones I got because they looked a bit grimey, I used the goddards stuff and they came up great. Now though I have found out that coins should not be cleaned, think of all those ppl new to the market cleaning their krugers mabey my unclean ones may gain a rare value at some point in the future. Do not under any circumstances clean the sovereigns.

  11. A guy I work with put his house on the market for £187,000 about 3 weeks ago, he managed to get 3 veiwings in the first week, but non of them wanted to buy, now the estate agent has told him to drop the price by £5000, he asked the EA if the market was falling and the EA said it was due to a lot of competition at the moment.

    If I see it come up on property snake I will put a link to the house.

  12. In it for the long term? I bought gold in the late 1960's for next to nowt and sold in the very early 80's when it hit around $830 an ounce. The person who bought my Sovereigns back then would still be waiting to make a profit today on that gold purchase. 27 years on and with inflation thrown in gold must stand as the worst long term investment vehicle of the last 25 years.

    Well sure, of course your right, anybody who buys at the top of a market is going to lose out big time, thats what this forums all about. Buying gold at $830 an ounce was an overvalued price compared to all other assets at the time, just like right now houses are overvalued compared to all other assets.

    Is gold overvalued at this moment compared to all other assets or not? I don't think it is.

    The £850 price was a freak economic event, its like saying sea level is falling and using the hight of the boxing day tsunami to illustrate the point.

    I know a guy who bought sovereigns in 1980 cos he though he would make easy money, he's just bought a house.

  13. I feel good today after yet another successful trip to Chards, you know that there are only two types of people in the world who get a good feeling from gaining a little extra weight.

    Anorexics and Gold bugs, I know which one I am.

    Edit, actually after just checking on the wiki about aorexics I realise that my joke does not work, its based on my lack of knowledge about anorexics, Gonna read the article properly now.

  14. The main point of Peter Schiffs book is to show how the US service economy based on Borrowing ,spending and consumption is an economic model that does not work long term. We have a similar problem in the UK We borrow money for consumption, we have to buy these goods from abroad because we lack the capacity to produce these goods at a cost level that will keep inflation low, this creates a negative balance of trade deficit that we show no signs of being able to pay for. The US can get away with huge balance of trade deficits because of the dollars status as world reserve currency. You may or may not agree with his investment advice given in the last three chapters, but looking at his track record so far his advice seems to have been correct.

    So does anyone take issue with Peter Schiffs central point? Does anyone here think that a service economy based on borrowing and spending against home equity to buy goods from abroad is an economic model that is sustainable?

  15. Immigration and cheap imports are what the govenment use to supress the effects of inflation, economic policy towards the money supply causes the boom and bust cycle. The govenment can increase the money supply in two ways, they can embark on massive public spending or They lower interest rates and lower credit lending standards to create a credit boom this leads to a 'mirical economy' where lots of people suddenly find they can afford to borrow more money, this pushes up the prices for non importable goods such as houses and land. They inflate the Money supply, this long term leads to higher prices the effects of inflation.


    Sorry I have not time at the moment to explain it any better or in any great detail at this moment, heres a link to peter shiff he gives a quick summary of what has happend to the US economy since the mid 90s and why they had a stock market bubble and then a housing bubble, his book 'crash proof' explains it in more detail also.

    This 3 min video is well worth watching


    The govenment want people to blame immigration for the economnic problems and for high house prices they want people to blame greedy oil companys and rich buisness men, but in reality it is the govenment and banking system that inflate the money supply.

    Money supply in the uk is growing at about 14 percent at the momnet.

  16. Just out of interest, How old are you wurzel? and could you be so kind as to share with us your experiences in the lawson housing boom and bust, what sort of impact did the last credit boom have on the manchester area and how do you think the current credit boom will end. Whats your opinon of the overall job market in the manchester area? what do we produce in manchester these days?

  17. hmm, measured my 1oz krugerrands - some are 34.2g - others are 34.1g

    What sort of scales are you using? that does not seem a very acurate meausement, cheap scales are often not that acurate try calibrating them if it allows you to, or test the scales with a fixed weight to see if its reading correctly.

    If you got your coins from a reputable dealer(one of the main dealers BNTA members) I doubt you will have fake ones. I've got a good quality set of scales but they only do one decimal place they give me a reading of 34.0 on the nine of the kruggerands and 39.9 one two of them. These were from a BNTA member and I have had them checked by another dealer, its probably just the scales.


  18. Needle I don't see the point in getting personal?

    Personally if you are reading this and live in Manchester you are definatelly going to see positive growth for some time to come as Manchester has a buzz about it at the moment due to all of the new developments not only in the city centre, East Manchester and Tameside (new £100M Marina +Metro Hotspot :) ), MediaCity, New Financial Quarter developments ie RBS HQ etc etc I can go on.

    Hale is a cast iron investment at the mo and I am more than happy I moved here and am excited about things to come. Alty will definately follow in time with all the redevelopment going on.


    PS in 5 years time people will be saying "I wish I bought in 2007".

    Please Stop talking nonsense, you 'claim' to have only lived in manchester for 18 months so don't tell people that have lived here all their lives that you know better than them the future for manchester and the surrounding areas.

  19. I just wanted to thank you all on here for making your knowledge so available. I redeemed my mortgage a while back and had been wondering how best to save for retirement I came to this site because I was thinking BTL, but I intuitively felt something is not right with the property market. 95% of my wealth is in my property owned outright and pensions. I have spent hours and hours on here and have learnt much I have decided I will keep up the pension contribution but all I can save over that is going into physical gold yet I seem to feel bad somehow like a Shylock. Hoarding gold seems to have a bad connotation and saving a good connotation but the more I think the more I realize they are the same.

    It makes absolute sense to hold gold to me but I will not tell anyone not just because of fear of robbery but because I think people will see me as a crank, does any one else feel the same?

    Thats kind of why I am in gold also, I am buying for the long term as a descret saving/pension scheme that I have complete control over. I don't expect I will get a state penison when I get old and my private pension will be wiped out by long term inflation. Long term I expect the fiat curreny to fall in value as it always has done, the gold should hold some parity agaisnt other comodities, such as food and energy. There is always the possibilty of there being a more sudden curreny collapse in which case fiat may fall against gold, in that event I could switch some or all the gold into dow shares or even better the shanghai stock exchange, property or what ever else becomes a better value investment. Gold is a good store of value but also It could be seen as lottery ticket that holds an intrinsic value in the event of curreny collapse, peak oil, global warming, war or even all four.

    At first I had doubts about investing in gold, so I spent a long time looking into the subject, what I found out gave me a lot of confidence about holding it. I wouldnt outright advise others to invest in gold, especially if they are just speculating, but I would advise people to look into it fully and make their own mind up based on the facts.

  • Create New...

Important Information

We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue.