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Posts posted by enrieb

  1. so what is underpinning the value of gold? nothing! it is pure speculation and the believe that it will be redeemable in services and goods at a later date, sounds very fiat to me.

    Basic economic laws of supply and demand underpin the value of gold. Scarcity gives gold a high value. A medium of exchange (money) can be defined as the most marketable commodity.

    To be widely marketable, a medium of exchange should possess the following characteristics: (1) transportability, (2) divisibility, (3) high market value in relation to volume and weight, (4) recognizability, (5) resistance to counterfeiting.

  2. Ok, lets narrow it down. During the last fifty years what quality item have the chinese designed, engineered and built without any assistance or input from any outside source. None of your links show anything that meets that criteria. We all know the hype about the need for the chinese to start inventing and designing and what they will do sometime in the future. All I want to know is the answer to my very basic question. Just name one product. Thats not to much to ask surely.

    You seem to be inferring that because the Chinese have not made any major contributions to technology in the very recent history then they will therefore never be capable of creating their own innovative technology. Here is a long list of Chinese inventions throughout the past 2000 years, this shows that their is no racial or cultural reason for the Chinese not being able to produce innovative technology.


    It is true that in recent history China has been dormant, cut of from the modern worlds advancements and has not made any real contribution to scientific achievement. Yet China is now going through an industrial and technological revolution, they have one of the largest research and development budgets in the world and are producing huge numbers of scientists at a time when the advanced western nations are seeing falling numbers of science graduates as our universities switch emphasis in favor of educating our brightest to be lawyers, public relations, social workers and other service industry parasites.

    What did the British create that was so superior before the industrial revolution? America, Japan or even Germany, many of the inventions that helped make America great were invented in the UK or taken from German scientists after the fall of Berlin. The USA then had the industry, investment and scientists to develop them to their full potential. China are starting to rise and are set to become one of the worlds great superpowers as the US declines financially it is now China that has the industry, investment and scientists.

    China simplifies method for turning coal to gas


    Chinese researchers have demonstrated a cheap, simple way to convert underground coal into gas. The new method could make it more economical to exploit coal seams that are otherwise difficult to reach, but also raises environmental concerns.

    Pebble bed reactor


    China is gearing up for the fastest deployment of nuclear energy in history, fuelled by Australian uranium.

    At least thirty new reactors are planned to be built in the fifteen years. Nearly all will be Pressurised Water Reactors, the most common type in the world.

    But one will be the first commercial Pebble-Bed Reactor, a radically different Chinese design that researchers claim is ‘meltdown proof’ and ‘inherently safe’.

    China overtakes Japan on R&D


    China has overtaken Japan to become the second biggest spender on research and development behind the US, a report from the Organization for Economic Co-operation and Development revealed.

    The country is expected to invest $136bn in research and development this year after growing by more than 20 per cent in the past year, ahead of the the $130bn from Japan but still well behind the $330bn the US will invest, the OECD said.

    Technology to Turn Garbage into Building Bricks


    The technology, developed by Shanghai Tiannan Environmental Protection Technology Co Ltd, can convert garbage into bricks. The bricks can then be used for sidewalks or pathways in parks, according to officials.

    It will be used to treat 3.5 million tons of garbage at a dump site in suburban Baoshan.

    "The technology can realize 100 percent resource utilization of the waste," said Zhu Yuchao, vice office director of the Shanghai Promotion Association of Tech-transfer, which introduced the technology to the Baoshan government. "The workshop beside the dump won't cause any pollution."

    China satellite-killer upsets West


    The US, Australia and Canada have voiced their concern to China over its test in space of a satellite-destroying weapon last week, the White House has said.

    Using a ground-based medium-range ballistic missile, the US says the test knocked out an ageing Chinese weather satellite about 865km above the earth on January 11.

    Ground-Based ASAT Laser

    China initialised researches on high-power laser for military uses in the 1970s. Although the development was temporarily halted in the 1980s, it was re-opened in the 1990s and had made some breakthrough after 2000.

    In October 2006, China allegedly fired high-power lasers at U.S. spy satellites flying over its territory, though this has never been officially confirmed. The U.S. officials claimed that China is developing laser ASAT weapons capable of blinding the electro-optical satellite operating at low-earth orbit (LEO).

    ASAT Spacecraft


    China is also reportedly developing the capability of using spacecraft, particularly small- and nano-satellite, for the ASAT role. In 2001, Hong Kong-based Sing Tao newspaper quoted unnamed Chinese sources that planning was underway to conduct testing of the ASAT system soon. It is not clear how much progress China has made in developing the ASAT system, but some ground testing may have been carried out.

    According to the report, the Small Satellite Research Institute of the Chinese Academy of Space Technology (CAST) developed and built the ASAT system, codenamed "parasitic satellite".

    In the novel ASAT system, a nanometre-sized "parasitic satellite" is deployed and attached to the enemy's satellite. During a conflict, commands are sent to the "parasitic satellite" which will interfere or destroy the host satellite.


    In March 2007, the Chinese government officially approved the long waited plan to develop the country’s own large passenger jets. The State Council also gave go-ahead to set up a company in charge of the design, development and construction of the aircraft. In a statement issued by the State Council, the Chinese government stated: “Our country has been developing the aviation industry for 50 years, and already has the technical and material base to develop large aircraft."

    Although the statement gave no details on investment figures or when or where the aircraft might be made, it is understood that China’s two state-owned aircraft makers, AVIC I and AVIC II, as well as the Commission of Science Technology and Industry for National Defence (COSTIND), would all be involved in developing the jets. Both AVIC I and AVIC II are currently making components for Airbus and Boeing and also posses experience in civilian aircraft development and manufacturing.



  3. The new Metals Forum.

    Oh ****** now we are going to get AWESOME limp bizkit and Korn fans whining about the mishaps of everyday life, teenage angst and how TOTALLY unfair middle class parents are.

  4. Hmm, whilst I feel glad that metals and gold can have its own specific forum category, it does feel to me that the main discussion will be diminished by the loss of the Gold thread, it is more of a catch all thread for gold/inflation/economics.

    Although I have only made a limited contribution to the General Gold thread I would be disappointed to see a poster who has contributed as much as GF leave the forum or even have his posts relugated to a smaller separate forum.

    Also I feel a bit disappointed that this decision seems to have been taken without consulting the regular contributers to the Gold thread. I always appreciate reading most perpctives provided in the Gold thread by posters such as Goldfinger, Largly Ignoratnt, Realist Bear and Car seller, were any of there people consulted about the change in the forum.

    Maybe it could be a good thing, then again if we lose posters like GF then I would say that it is not, perhaps the chance to at least discus moving the general gold thread into a new metals forum would have been more helpful in making the transition, at the moment it feels as if the gold discussion has been relegated.

    Can we also expect a separate forum section created for the topic of immigration.

  5. I am still waiting for anyone on this site to tell me of a single quality item that has ever been designed , engineered and built in china.

    O.K so this is only anecdotal from my own work experience and you may well dismiss it, I cannot hope to have a chance to convince you or anyone else as I cannot and would not provide evidence or links to prove my case. Yet still here it is.

    I used to work for a large multinational corporation and in our division of the business we manufactured a very important and expensive component for car engines, we held over fifty percent of the global market share in this product. At first the units were manufactured mainly in the USA, UK, France and Italy. Though with increased competitive pressure through the growth of globalisation, the company eventually began to outsource production and component supply from other countries that included China, India and eastern European former soviet union countries.

    One of the most important parts of the product that we used to buy were supplied by a foundry in Ireland, the same product could now be flown in from China for a cheaper price at a far superior quality, we would also import fully assembled units from newly built factories in eastern Europe and replace the 'Made in Romania' Nameplate with a 'Made in UK' one, this I was led to believe was just inside the law as the old Nameplate and serial numbers were stored in a database that could be cross referenced against the new Nameplate and serial number incase of a quality problem requiring a product recall.

    Over one third of the units that were shipped from our UK factory were produced outside the UK and given a 'Made in UK' nameplate. My point being that most of the products that you think you are buying from a UK, Japan, USA, Germany etc.. manufacturer are not even made those countries, they may well be packed there or have the final assembly carried out in one of the above countries yet a huge percentage of the parts are made outside the named countries.

    So when you think you are buying a quality 'Made in UK' product, you may well be buying a product that has been made in China.

  6. I was just walking past a few estate agents in my town and I though I would look to see if any houses had been reduced as I have seen many reductions on property snake in the local area. Yet I could not see any houses that had been reduced, after looking a little harder, I began to notice a price sticker in one corner where a 'reduced' sign would usually be, however instead of saying reduced they have put 'New Instruction' or New Price'.

    Surely they cannot mean 'reduced' cos I heard some posh fat bird and bald guy on the telly say that house prices never ever go down, they only go up you know!

  7. So let me get this straight, if people over here are fed up with UK falling living standards (according to some people on here caused by letting too many immigrants in) these same people feel that the right thing to do is to become an immigrant in another country such as Australia?

    How do you think the people in Australia feel about Hordes of British coming over taking their houses, stealing their jobs, lowing their living standard and please spare us your lefty liberal "we are bringing skills to the Australia,so we are good immigrants argument "

    If you people like you were not getting in there stealing their jobs and lowering their living standards then they would be have to develop the skills of Australian workers and pay them a fair wage.

  8. if there is no demand for the physical stuff at this time of the year i would be worried about the price

    i would also worry that in recent months the $ has been incredibly weak but gold has barely moved

    it's all very well stating historic facts etc, but if people no longer value gold as a store of value then you are on a hiding to nothing

    Good sensible points you make and always worth bearing in-mind, but I think the numbers of people who value gold as a store of value are on the increase, whereas people who see the dollar, Dow Jones, FTSE, hedge funds etc as a store of value are probably on the decrease.

    I can only speak anecdotally for myself and a few other close pro-gold friends of mine in meat-space, who have been waiting for a drop in the market to buy a bit more gold. I feel from my experience that demand is still on the increase and I also get the same impression from searching around on the internet.

  9. Can you explain what higher lease rates mean? Who benefit, who loose?

    Here are some pictures I am sure warms a gold bug. I would be afraid to have all that metal just stored in my house, but not these people.


    Those are nice pictures, makes my horde look feeble.

    In the CWR interview Hampton mentions that the high lease rates can represent that people are borrowing gold in-order to short it.

  10. What has been going on in the gold lease rates during the last 10 years - does anyone know more? Since 2002 they have been extremely low when compared to earlier years. Is this reverting now and could cause major hickups?

    EDIT: The years of silence in the rates - was this the silence of Goldilocks? Is it all over now?

    They talk about the lease rates on commodity watch radio, about 34 mins into the show, though its well worth a listen to the entire programme, Dominic Frisby is getting some great guest experts on the show these days. I always find Michal Hamptons views balanced and interesting. They have some great indepth interviews on there, the Paul Vaneeden interview is a must for anyone interested in gold mining companies and shares, also they just posted an interview with 'Zapata' George Blake and you can't get better entertainment than 'Zapata'


  11. Mattel didn't check that the shite cheap-as-chips supplier couldn't give a monkey's about quality? Well who's fault is that then?


    Some crap ? everything made in China is crap. Would you fly in a plane made from chinese components ? neither would anyone else. Ok , I suppose chinese socks are value for money.


    I think you've missed the point...the Chinese have started off making the crap things and are rapidly moving up the food chain - bet you Rover cars work better now we're not making them! Like everything else they'll work out how to do it and then do it cheaper and probably better than we could. Given the number of highly educated graduates they are churning out it's hard to see how countries like Germany can stay ahead of them on the quality curve forever.


    China started making crap fifty years ago and is still making crap. The chinese are only able to copy. They cannot grasp the concept of true engineering and never have been able to. I worked in China for many years. Very few nations possess true engineering skill which is only available after decades of experience. These include Germany ,USA, and the UK. Countries like India and China will never have it. They will only ever make crap for western consumers. Does anyone know of a quality chinese product that was designed ,engineered and built in China ? Just because it looks like duck and walks like duck does not mean it is duck. (old chinese proverb)

    I believe Peter Schiff sums up best who's been flooding the world with cheap dangerous goods in his newsletter quoted below.

    Sporting higher yields than Treasury bonds, investment grade ratings from reputable agencies, and juicy commissions for the investment banks that packaged them, these structured mortgage bonds have quickly become America’s greatest export. Ironically, amid all the recent hoopla about defective Chinese exports, America has proved that when it comes to flooding the world with shoddy merchandise, nobody beats the good old USA.

    It's a shame the BBC could not be bothered to report that the boss of the toy company had committed suicide over the weekend because of the product recall. Did anyone other than the owner of the toy firm die or become ill from these cheap products? I don't remember hearing anything in our main stream media.


  12. I can take my bin bags to the rubbish tip in a taxi each week for a quarter of the cost of my council tax. I get nothing at all from the local council, I don't think we should pay them anything. We should onlly pay for services that we receive when we get them, we should not pay these parasites up front for nothing, it only gives them the opportunity to shaft the working man.

  13. There MAY well be a HPC - I hope so, but quality housing in LARGE areas of this country is NOT going to fall by 40%. In some areas maybe - but I don't think they will be the majority. For many many people in this country a HPC will mean nothing other than there houses have some less abstract value than what they had last week/month/year - so what???

    40% crash nationwide - NO chance!

    You do understand that in a credit crunch the lenders will not borrow people up to 6 times their income to buy homes at todays inflated prices. There will be a return to traditional lending standards, lenders will only borrow to people with good credit history, stable jobs, documented earnings (not including bonuses or overtime) 3 times your income mortgages and borrowers will have to put down at least 5-10 percent deposits. All this will be in a period of rising interest rates that will be needed to persuade borrowers to lend money.

    So to sum it up nobody will be able to lend money to buy a house at 6 times their income on a self cert mortgage whilst putting no deposit down or even using their credit card as a deposit. NO buyers at todays prices means that prices will fall.

  14. Perhaps they have some inside knowledge about inflation/money supply over the next 5 years, sure average house prices will be £300k but that means average wages will have to be nearly £100k.

    I hear house prices are still going up in Zimbabwe and their stock market is at record highs, of course only if you measure these things in Zimbabwe dollars.

    70s inflation here we come

    If the money supply continues to grow at about 14 percent a year then the amount of M4 will have doubled in 5 years.

  15. 2005, mother & cub, very cute as well. I haven't opened the seal but there seems to be a spot of rust or so on it (there seems to be a grain of another metal inside). I guess at some stage I have to clean it. Surely this is why they could not sell it as proof.


    Is Red Spot Bad?

    Quite honestly it's not something that we tend to think of as bad. We believe that the existence of detail, and lack or wear is more important than an amount of colour change, but we are all different, and an individual is entitled to dislike red spot appearing on his gold coins, and to reject coins, other than pure bullion coins, which exhibit evidence of red spot.

    What Causes Red Spots

    Red spot can occur on almost any gold coin, it certainly happens on 22 carat gold coins. We have never seen it on .999(9) fine gold coins, and presume it is virtually impossible for it to occur on fine gold.

    From our knowledge of metallurgy, we can tell you that when gold is alloyed, usually with copper or copper and silver, the alloying is obviously done in the molten state, and then has to cool. During cooling, crystalisation occurs, the crystal forming around "seeds" which are molecules of the elemental metals. There is a slight tendency for the elements with the highest melting point to start to crystalise first, and this can lead to small localised areas with slightly higher or lower concentrations of the constituent elements. In ternary alloys (three elements) three pairs of binary (two elements) alloys can also form. These areas of variable alloy are usually of microscopic proportion, but can sometimes be large enough to be visually discernable.

    Copper oxidises and forms other salts fairly readily whereas gold is almost completely inert, and silver lies in between, although it is fairly unreactive. This means that if some parts of the alloy are copper rich, and are exposed on the surface of the coin, then it is possible for these parts to exhibit toning or tarnishing. The red spots are areas with a higher copper content, and as copper is a red coloured metal, this shows itself in an area which is less yellow and more red than the rest of the coin. If this area subsequently tarnishes, it would almost certainly go towards a deeper red or brown colour. Whenever we have seen red spot, it has always been an area about the size of a pinhead, sometimes with more than one spot on a coin.

    Is There A Cure For Red Spot?

    Yes, red spot can be removed from coins. We do not recommend the collector or amateur to try this for themselves at home, at least not without taking a few precautions. If in any doubt, do not try. We disclaim any responsibility for accidents or other problems which may arise.

  16. Okay you win. I'll sell my gold and keep my paper money that keeps its value so much better.

    Hmm, so your announcing that you are selling gold because you want to drive the price down, so you can buy back even more at a cheaper price. :blink: Sounds like a risky strategy, I will hold on to my gold and hopefully pick some more up when the price drops, thankyou Italy.

  17. http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/bizchina/2007...ent_6006413.htm

    People's Bank of China buys stake in BG


    Updated: 2007-08-01 16:38

    China has bought a 0.46 per cent stake in BG, Britain's third largest gas producer, and analysts say it might raise its shareholding further, according to published reports.

    Fred Lucas, an analyst at London brokers Cazenove Group, said an analysis of BG's share registration data showed the People's Bank of China (PBOC) bought 15.5m shares in the company between June 15 and July 13, Bloomberg News reported.

    The stake is worth around £125m ($254m) at BG's closing share price on Tuesday of 808 pence.

    Eurasia said the stake in BG was consistent with China's increasingly aggressive outbound strategy.

    The sovereign wealth fund, being set up to manage $200 billion of China's $1,330 billion in foreign exchange reserves, is likely to be called China Investment Corp (CIC).

    "The CIC will almost certainly increase its very small initial investment in BG Group, raising the prospect of a potential future takeover bid," Eurasia Group said in a note.

    Bloomberg cited Cazenove as agreeing: "Given the scale of US dollar reserves that it is understood to be trying to redeploy for higher returns, there ought to be potential for it to buy a much larger stake," the firm said in a note.

    Hmm, so they are buying into energy, maybe they've been listening to Jim Puplavas FSN too, oil and gold next?

  18. The European Central Bank said yesterday three members of the Eurosystem of national banks sold 288 million euros ($397 million) of gold last week, equal to about 18 metric tons and up from 88 million euros the week before. European central banks may sell 157.6 tons in the next nine weeks, or an average of about 18 tons a week, according to World Gold Council figures.

    ``We may need to get very used to the fact that 18 metric tons of gold are going to become commonplace for the next two- and-a-half months,'' Dennis Gartman, trader and editor of the Virginia, U.S.-based Gartman Letter, said in his daily report today. That amount will ``make it difficult for gold.''


    European central banks have sold 342.4 tons of gold as of July 20 under an agreement that caps annual sales at 500 tons through Sept. 26, London-based World Gold Council investment research manager Natalie Dempster said. That includes 13.9 tons sold by Switzerland in June, she said. They were the biggest sales by the Swiss National Bank since March 2005, according to figures on the bank's Web site.

    I would say that Gold seems to be doing quite well given the recent central bank sales, if these sales had not taken place we could well have seen gold hold a position closer to the $700 mark.

  19. I really don't follow this I'm afraid. Using the word precious doesn't inherently make it so! :)

    I'm happy that gold is some commodity with a value that may rise and make gold investors wealthier, but I think a slip of paper is only as valuable as we say it is, and a lump of <insert anything you like here> is only as valuable as we say it is, too.

    The medium of exchange itself also becomes a commodity, that can be traded for other commodities and assets, supply and demand influence the relationship between other commodities and the money used as the medium of exchange. You can over supply paper money, this is harder to do with physical gold as you cannot create it out of nothing, effort has to be expended to mine and refine it and this gives it an energy-value relationship with other commodities.

  20. This isn't sarcsim or baiting. I don't understand this topic. Could you explain the difference or link to an explanation? I presumed that the banks deposited money with the BoE and then were in turn allowed to loan money on a multiple of the deposit with the BoE.


    The first 15 minuets of this FSN interview with G Edward Griffin explain the basics about how it works.

    http://www.financialsense.com/Experts/2006/Griffin.html Right click the Mp3 link and save target as

    I know that you won't believe it the first time you hear it, you will think that these are crazy people making it all up, but look into it some more, there's lots of information about this subject plastered all over the net.



    this one below is a little more conspiratorial, but well worth a watch


    This is a must read by Rothbard from the von Misses institute


  21. Mr Average man/woman on the street thinks money supply comes from a cash point just like milk comes from Tesco and not a cow. As long as this simple view remains the top 1% will own more and more.

    Blasphemer!!!!!!! how dare you claim that our milk comes from cows, to claim our pure white milk is from an unclean animal is an insult to our good lord. That sort of talk is probably a result of an immoral upbringing involving perverse sexuality and occult sacrifice, you are a disciple of the teachings of witches. I shall gather an angry mob and burn thee for such blasphemy. In my economy we sell the unclean cows so that we may buy the pure and sacred milk.

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