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Orbital

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  1. yepyep a true MSE (www.moneysavingexpert.com)! Its a myth that everyone in this country is spending like no tomorrow, there are millions of people on sites such as MSE that are committed to saving every penny - this is why house buying is still possible and there are still FTBs (like me around). tbh it wasnt that hard, just had to save for years and years! But with a nice deposit you dont need a silly mortgage and you can get overpaying easily. And all because we dont need a wii. Or PS3, xbox, sky, gym, mobile phone, booze, etc, etc. However your dad could have probably negotiated the same discount had he gone into the store before Chirstmas, infact you normally get bigger discounts and extras and all you have to do is... ask (as any MSE will tell you). So maybe dad wasnt so great afterall... oops!
  2. we found outsourcing a pain to begin with, but once its up and running it works well. I can just knock up a spec, mail it off, get the code back in my inbox a few days later for a few hundred quid. Outsource project costs tend to be about £100/day whereas internal about £500 depending on level (those figures reflect project costs not wages!!). So yes it is much much cheaper im afraid. So yeah some initial projects saw inflated costs, but were still cheaper than onshore costs tbh, and these days we are all desperate to use our offshore team to keep our project costs down. Not only are the guys very skilled but they work so hard and seem to really care about getting everything perfect. Unlike our new grads who seem more concerned at getting out the door at 5.30, and taking the longest lunch possible. Im afriad carrer prospects arent rosey for your 'stock' programmer in the UK. Current advice is to get a bit more business focused and improve those interpersonal skills (a toughie for most IT geeks !). I find my position is quite favourable, I still get to be architect and control code, get to do the innovitave stuff myself, but the dull day to day stuff is right off my plate. Seems ideal ! And as more of a 'manager' I seem to get paid more, even though I do less! I guess its the responsability that earns the money! So yeah there is a downside, but once the experience comes in you get good at running the offshore teams.
  3. I think you guys are as usual suckers for the media, there is plenty of positive stuff happening in the economy. The company I work for is in the process of expanding from a £10m turn over to £100m with the creation of wealth and jobs for many. How many headline do we get? Pricisely none! Had we collapsed we would have made the news, in fact we did get headline after laying off some people after the 9/11 down turn. But the good stuff? No one wants to know. The real problem the UK is going to have is skills shortages as people are turning away from 'hard' subjects. Just my experience/opinion of course !
  4. tbh people just draw what ever conclusions they like, i think its irrelavent until you actually come to buy or sell a house. Sadly most people on this site are put off from even trying to buy, I certainly got myself a bargin, a place in the SE at a price well below the supposed average in a nice area. http://today.reuters.co.uk/news/articlebus...HOUSEPRICES.xml "House price inflation hits 19-month high in Oct Mon Dec 11, 2006 10:35 AM GMT LONDON (Reuters) - House prices rose at their fastest annual rate in more than 1-1/2 years in October with prices in London leading the way, government data showed on Monday. The Department for Communities and Local Government said house prices rose 8.6 percent year-on-year in October, up from 8.0 percent in September and the fastest annual rate since March 2005. House price inflation in London accelerated to 10.6 percent from 9.0 percent in September -- its highest in more than two years."
  5. One of the biggest problems many posters have on this site is the perception that all houses are expensive. I bought earlier in the year, a 3-bed semi, each room has a king size double bed, wardrobe, plenty of space. Looong garden too. The area has a low crime rate and is one of the least deprived in the country. Most people are pretty normal working class but the professionals (like me) are buying in fast. Whats more the place is a 25min commute by train to central London, yet surrounded by the Surrey countryside - its really an ideal place to live if you want the employment opportunities of London but without city living. How much was this place? 200k! Double glaving, central heating, and even came with all white goods! As people above are saying, there are places where prices are up and some down, do your research, avoid the 'known' towns and trendy areas and there are many affordable places. The same place in 'fashionable' (posh) Richmond would have cost double, or even triple!! And the train line is rubbish there! But yeah I agree with OP, I think its really scary to think some people have opted not to buy because they read this very skewed site. Like OP I am not a troll and I would love prices to come down, however I do come at this from a different angle. Im not just sitting on my **** waiting for prices to fall because I see it as my only option, I worked hard and sacrificed to ensure I could get a family home in the SE. Other than the obvious math error, the OP also has to factor in the rent that has been paid over the last 3 years. If you had bought back then, rather than being here now crossing your fingers you'd now have 22 years left to go on your mortgage, or less if you over paid each month. I just hate the idea of being dependant on something that may or may not happen - why not make it happen for yourself... it is possible, I did it.
  6. lol! back to skool 4 u! And in addition to the obvious flaws, you being able to save £1000 a month has nothing to do with you renting or buying, its because you earn enough to do so! You loon! You said yourself you only saved £108 over an IO mortgage - erm thats not quite a thousand is it...! To me this more a 'look at how great my life is' comment rather than a debate on renting vs buying. Well good for you - have a paper hat! I think there is nothing wrong with renting if it suits you, I rented 5 places in 5 years, I enjoyed the freedom, but being kicked out on a whim was a pain. Buying became important to me for this reason, once youve been forced out of a property simply because the LL wanted to sell you realise how few rights you have in this country. There is also the pain of not being able to do what you want with the place - I have always liked the idea of making my mark on a property. And this brings me to another oft overlooked point on this website. Property development! Im not too bothered about overall market prices, ive always said Id like prices to drop - this would help me buy my aspirational home! What is important is the relative price. Now by buying a place that needed some work, improving it, extending it, putting in the hours, I can buy a low end place and sell at a high end price. Cant do that when renting canya?! HPI isnt the be all and end all! If there is a HPC and I was in a rental property Id be worried - there are gonna be a few LLs out to cash in whilst they can, or many that will simply default on their mortgage. Now its that insecurity that scares me. Who cares if I may be a few k more or less better off, sooner or later Ill own that family home outright and wont need to move, maybe once the kiddies are all grown up. I couldnt bare to have the stress of wondering what my LL will do next in the changing market, simply awful in my opinion. Now if you are young free and single then you prob dont care - well lucky you . But for us grown ups... Thing about this site is its too biased to young middle class males who only care about money and seem very bitter that they cant have the kind of place their parents have. Completely forgetting that actually their parents actually had to work hard to get there, and that many people actually want a house because they wish to nest. Most people buy a place to live in, not just becasue they want somewhere to stash their cash! Just ask why everyone here actually wants a HPC - its because they want to buy a home. Why else would you be here?!
  7. how bizarre, there really are some crackpots in the world. I didnt read too far but it seems they want to give out 'debt free' money. So isnt that like money for nothing (and chicks for free). erm.. isnt the whole concept that you have to 'do' something to get money, else it has no value. If this is really hard to understand, just have a look at the impact of injecting counterfeit money into an economy. loons
  8. education opens many doors in life, got me doing a job i enjoy. The old phrase "make your hobby your job and never work again" springs to mind. Not gonna make me a millionaire - but who needs to be a millionaire? That said, higher education isnt right for everyone and the governments 50%> into uni plan is ludicrous. That many people in my teacher mate's secondary school wont even get 5 GCSEs. Its sad to hear some of the kids just dont care, they just dont understand that education and qulifications will actually get them to where they want to go. And they will only learnt his lesson when its too late. I went to a pretty normal s.london state school and wasnt particularly outstanding, I just did what my teach told me to do - wasnt hard really. Went on to A levels, then Uni, and then a job that pays enough and I enjoy. Enabled me to get on the property ladder, and concentrate on more important things in life. So yeah I dont think you HAVE to get an education but it makes life easier and without one you better be the kinda person who can get up and make things happen, not the type of person who sits around blaming their pathetic lives on everyone but themselves. If you cant be arsed to make things happen and didnt think you needed an education when everyone else around you was trying to tell you that you did then tough luck, people are responsible for their own lives and if that means you'll never afford a property... unlucky. You only get one chance at life.
  9. if you are young free and single Id stay away from a flat purchase. Just seems lots of uber hassle - esspecially all that leasehold malarky! Id just rent, or better still, why not move into a nice shared house. You can pay bout £100 a week in much nicer areas to move in with a few similar people with all bills included. Then save that extra cash towards a deposit for your first 'real' house. Living centrally in London is kinda fun if you spend more time out of your home than in it. It was great fun as a youf, there is so much going on, from free cultural events, live music, best clubs in the world, there is really no better place to spend your early 20s if you like to "live". But buying really doesnt suit this lifestyle at all, what does it get you other than a load of hassle. You are best off concentrating on enjoying yourself and building up your deposit fund. You'll prob want to move around a bit and experience new areas and live around different people. I lived in 5 places in 5 years! When I got to my late twenties (after 25 ) I was much keener to settle down, and didnt have the energy or desire to go party all the time. So I splashed out my savings on a 3 bed-semi in the 'burbs. Only 200k. I live 25mins from town so can still go up on a Sat night to catch a gig, meet up with old mates, etc. My daily commute is about 40mins door to door - not too bad really and I enjoy the comfort of the new style trains on my line - a chance to sit and read the paper! I live in one of the safest and least deprived wards in the country, I have the Surrey countryside on my doorstep, Brighton and the coast well within reach too. You really can have your cake and eat it! Just take the time to research different areas. There are even cheaper places locally if you are prepared to cycle to the station, or dont care for transport links. My town has seen 8-10 flat developments gone up this year alone, so there will be no shortage of people looking for a family home in a few years time when I hope to upgrade to that detached place. My personal experience of living in and around London has always been totally positive, but I think some people always have a positive outloko and can appreciate what they have. Other people just seem to be miserable no matter what - just be thankful you arent one of those types and get on with your life ! Best of luck .
  10. meanwhile, back in the real world, some of us are saving deposits to buy house with 80-90% mortgages, some of us do a bit of research and find that there are plenty of places in commutable reach of London where a house can be bought for 150k (thats where the cheaper houses in my road start). Rather than pissing about on websites like this I got saving and bought a nice semi, 25 mins from central London, in one of the safest least deprived areas of the country, no planes overhead, surrey countryside a short hop away, can even hit Brighton in 50mins. My place was nearer 200k but with a deposit I worked hard for over 5 years or so the repayments are as much as my rent ever was. The difference is with my overpayments ill be mortgage/rent free before im 40. Im an average earner, never gonna earn much tbh. To many people on this website believe their own hype, id like a drop in the prices as much as anyone, but the truth is houses are still affordable - if they werent, they would have dropped a long time ago! Prices are set by the buyer, not the seller!
  11. lol I was going to make a joke about you lot being daily mail readers or something - but oh look you actually are lmao! whinge whinge whinge, and meanwhile there are millions of people doing positive things all over the country. I always find it impressive that people can have such different experinecs of life in the same place. All seems most rosey to me, Ive been enjoying free cultural events over summer, my career is going well thanks to hard work and dicipline, I have a reansonable financial position (for my age at least) thanks to understanding the value of money from a young age. Wow what else, plenty of great stuff happening in the run up to Christmas, my local council pushing forward on redevelopment, new transport links on the way, current trains/buses run great and for a fraction of the cost of car ownership, my area is clean and safe, people starting to wake up to environmental issues, leading the way in tackling global poverty. And oh dear, the above post. You know things are in la-la land when immigration gets questioned. Do you actually have any idea how much Polish immigrants are contributing? Think about it for 2 seconds. They come over here, when fit and healthy, work damn hard and do jobs Brits are too lazt to do, and then go back. They dont drain the education, benefit, housing, health, pension systems in any way near the way us scrounging Brits do. In fact if you look at the facts you'll find out that they are contributing far more than they take out, infact its an ideal situation because they head back home before having kids, or growing old and ill. You know a thread is utter rubbish when it resorts to this kind of biggotry. This is 2006 for crying out loud - give me strength!! I think the truth is we all live with the same daily issues but some of us are able to appreciate all that we do have. I could never really complain as long as I can eat and have a roof (rented or otherwise) over my head, yet some seem to want to live in a lavish celebrity lifestyle - perhaps theyve been reading too many magazines and think that that lifestyle is "normal". Who knows. At some point I think you have to start asking whether its actually just you that are the problem, if millions of people can enjoy life yet you cant, doesnt that suggest something. Things arent that bad. Unless you read the daily mail I guess !
  12. I pay 20% of my income in mortage on my London house (3 bed semi). Not including overpayments. Add the overpayments in and yaeh it gets to 50%. But then It does mean Ill be mortgage free by 40 (whether market rates go up or down). And im an average earner... (I just spend very carefully lol) The place I bought was recently refurbished and even came with all white goods and landscaped garden. The other half of the semi had not been touched since the sixties and needed complete renovation. It just sold for the same price as our place about 8 months later. After new kitchen, new bathroom, double glazing, central heating, carpets as minimum I guess the new owners will shell out, what 30-40k? Add in furniture, garden, trimmings, etc and they will have spent a lot of money! So yeah, tbh If I were you Id buy a house because I wanted a house, just accept you will always have to pay a current market rate. When it comes to long term financial security why not invest in something you can control - your career for example...
  13. if a crash did happen id be loking to BUY BUY BUY! Imagine all those bargins I could pick up. And if things really HAVE to be cyclical as many posters here insist, well Id make a fortune once the prices ramp up again. So I guess we'll all be fighting over these cheap properties...? Hope that doesnt push the price up...
  14. Another victim of the media. I always find the link between crime and perception of crime fascinating, My local paper is full of horror too, but actually ive never seen anything remotely worrying. Its easy to understand though, when the only message we have being drilled into us day and night is that kids=bad its no wonder its all we believe. Just watch a few episodes of crimewatch and you'll probably never want to go out again. All areas have their good and bad sides.
  15. WOW! Im gonna plunge ALLL my money into betting on a falling market in 2008 then. WOOOHHOOOOO im gonna be a zillionair. Guess all you guys are too. Infact everyone is gonna arent they cos there is no way this guy can be wrong!! But seriously, it would be happy days, wow id be able to upgrade to a real beaut of a house if 30/40% fell off the market.
  16. ...and the irony is, according to a recent Metro article, we are looking at recruiting from overseas, there is a particular shortage of bus drivers for example. So there is actually no shortage of jobs, the biggest risk imo is people unwilling to do these jobs. Whats more shocking is that a bus driver can earn more cash than a teacher. I recall that program on Polish immigration a month ago or so where the Scottish fish factory owner said that out of 20 locals he employed only 10 turned up the next day and none were left by the end of the week. In contrast all his Polish workers, although massively over qualified, stuck the jobs out. The modern Brit is brainwashed into thinking 'service' or 'menial' jobs are beneath them.
  17. Not all that relevent to me tbh, I wasnt even born when either of those events occured. I think its also fair to say that things have changed substantially in the US and UK. Internal affairs at least, I think we should now be more concerned about external events. China has a long way to go in terms of civil freedom. The execution rate is particularly scary. Anyways, I split my pension pot between the 4 corners of the globe, and I must say the Chinese 1/4 is doing rather well. Just aslong as I get my exit strategy right... !
  18. but people are, the Metro had an article pointing out that Britains savings were at the highest post war levels. I can only suggest that there is a big divide in this country. There are people like me who enjoy sites such as moneysavingexpert.com (over a million members if you think im an isolated case...!) and work hard to limit our spending and save hard. People like me are able to pay bills, buy property, understand the need to work hard, make the most of education and opportunity, and know how to protect our money from tax etc - because we know life is damn hard and everything takes work work work. And yes, then there are many people who are spending money they dont have, investing their money poorly, more interested in one off thrills, booze, fags (soz but I just will never be able to relate to low earners who drink and smoke their way through spare cash). The people who didnt listen to Mrs.Teacher at school, they really werent joking when they said you need to work hard to get qualifications to give you opportunities in life. The upshot of all this is that the non-savers are going to really suffer, it is they that wont be able to afford property, face a tough old age, and a general struggle through life. But hey, at least they had a few good years whilst the CCs lasted... *sigh*
  19. I liked that spectator article, highlights many points that ive been making for a while. Buying a house has always been difficult, and will always be difficult. Yet many people seem to have unrealistic expectations for wanting to jump into property ownership without working or saving first. If you are a low earner with no saving, yes buying a house will be tough/impossible - but then thats always been true! But as the article says, houses are still being sold so someone can afford them. This site would have you believe its all BTLs but this isnt strictly true. All the properties in my S.London road (as far as I know) have been bought by FTBs, they are 1930s 2/3 bed terraced/semis - ideal 1st time houses. The buyers are simply hard working savers, people like me who arent mega earners at all, but saved for a few years to pay off debts and by that house in their late 20s. Property was certainly affordable for me, and clearly many others.
  20. dunno about him, but i bought a 3-bed semi with a garden in the suburbs of S.London, quiet little area, access to the country side, Brighton, tree lined streets, even the hoodies are polite! 20mins into London, reliable trains, all good tbh. How much? 200k. I sometimes wonder if people are so brainwashed on this site that they dont actually know how much houses really cost!! Sure 'luxury' new build flats in my town are going for 250k!!! Yes, really, and they sell so quick, yet there are 2/3 bed houses on my road changing hands for 200k, well actually 180k at the start of the year - but that boat has sailed (for now)! I guess people take one look at the papers, see these swishly marketed new builds at ludicrous prices and think that must be it. Or maybe people dont like to stray away from areas that have a 'reputation'. I took the time to do lots of research, yeah sure there were plenty of unaffordable areas in the London suburbs, but there were lots of great places too, they just dont have a 'trendy' reputation. But the more I see posts like that above "Where on earth do you live to get that much house for so little" the more I think some people here are so out of touch, or just too darn lazy to go and do some real research. I mean REAL research, not just a quick browse through rightmove. Anyways, GL to the OP, at the end of the day, as said, if it suits you then god luck - I bought a place cos I wanted a house to live in, money wasnt really the issue, rather than gambling on markets I chose to work hard and save hard - wasnt that tough really, just took a few years. Now I dont need to worry, aslong as i meet my mortgage repayments (not crazy high cos of my large deposit) Ill be fine, isnt it nice to be in control of your own destiny !
  21. I disagree, I think you underestimate the effects of increasing population and single occupancy, these affects are far greater than speculative BTL. Also you miss another huge point, I have no doubt that most people buy a house because they want somewhere to live! If there are only a limited number of houses, only the rich will be able to afford them. At some point in the future we will hit a limit, that cannot be denied, there will be a point where the country cant support any more homes, too expensive to supply water, power resources running out - or most obviously, just not enough physical space! The question is, when is that point? Certianly in my town there is no more room for big family homes, yet the families are piling in still, going into tiny flats. There are now god knows how many families desperate to get into a proper house with a garden for their new families - the people buying in my street arent BTLers at all, they are families wanting a room for each kid and some space for them to run around. This is why prices are increasing, the modern Brit is not prepared to compromise and wants a swish house in a trendy area and some of us are prepared to work very hard to get there - the problem is this is creating a big divide, those that wasted their educational opportunities or just cant be arsed are now in a position where they are screwed. Life is tough. Just be thankful you have a roof over your head at all, thats more than many millions can hope for. I dont buy into any argument about how the market 'must' crash, actually, if people are content to nest in their family homes, with their families, then actually these people wont care, they'll just carry on living and getting on with their lives. Its quite easy to see a situation where only older wealthy people buy and property is passed on between families. Its quite easy to imagine because this is reality in many continental countries. Im really not sure what the OP was on about when it came to the Brit economy, actually we are one of the biggest and strongest economies in the world, that doesnt mean things are all rosey for us, of course not, it just means that there is no Eutopian society out there with free accommodation, crime free streets, etc. Actually, the UK is about as good as it gets, I think you only realise that once you've travelled around a bit...
  22. yep, but this is mostly thanks to poor harvests etc. Potatos and wheat ate two that ive seen highlighted in the news recently as being hard hit - so yeah, expect the price of fish and chips and bread to increase. Im afriad this is just going to get worse as we head into a period of pressure on our resourcse. Some people here are keen to get house building and if that happens geesh we'll see things get worse and worse - one day people will realise the world has finite resources! Short of population control there's not much we can do, itll probably be OK in our lifetime, but as Stevie Hawkins was saying, time is running out for the future of our species on this planet. But hey lets forget about that, as I say, it shouldnt affect us so bad, its for another generation to deal with. Or is it?
  23. You dimebar, either you want the government to be responsible or you want people to be personally responsible? Make your mind up!! People cry out against a nanny state yet you all want el Tony to provide for you when it suits you. Typical of today's society, you all want to have your cake and eat it. Its funny, on sites like this people are all piling in to blame the government because they cant get off their arses to make a difference in their own lives (eg people can perfectly well buy a house if they worked and saved hard enough - I know this for a FACT becase im not special or a big earner, yet I bought a lovely house, with garden, in London this year, took time sacrifice and work - no help from the government!). I will also add that you are a victim of the media, not much has changed, but the media is feeding you stories about wayward parents and you chose to read skewed websites like this giving you a dangerously twisted view of the world far removed from reality. Perhaps you read the daily mail? That would explain the mention of kids. tbh I turn off as soon as I see any discussion on 'kids today' because its all so rubbish - if you actually get out from behind your cosey PC and into your community you'll see that the vast majority of kids are OK. Not much has changed over the years, crime levels are constant or down, shool results are constant or improving yet people seem to think the country is plunging into anarcy. I live in S.London and can assure you things are normal from here. It may shock some of you to know that when I was at school, people took drugs, carried knives, and oh my lord showed lack of respect for authority!! Good grief! Rumour has it that people have been doing this for decades. Most people are respectful, most people have good financial sense. Honestly, I think at some point people need to start thinking that maybe they are the problem, not everyone else. I find it weird that some of us seem to go through life with a totally different experience and perception of the world around them - I really dont know what to say to these people, other than pity them. I often see people chatting about S.London and how going for a pint of milk involves dodging gun fire, yet I just seem to stroll down in totally uneventful cirumstances. People tell me that local kids spit at them as they pass, yet to me they say excuse me (and nice one to the little gang of hoodies that helped an elderly man that fell over - he was petrified of course, but they were nothing but helpful). They tell me trasnport is dirty and unreliable, to me its clean and my train has been late only twice this year. Apparently people are rude and disrespectful yet I find everyone always holds a door open and happily exchange a smile. Maybe im lucky or special, maybe some people just have a miserable outlook and always see the worst in life. Kind of sad really.
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