Orbital

Not quite convinced, it's pretty gloomy. Tagging on "This was the smallest monthly increase in 18 months" is hardly what I'd call propagander. They've highlighted quotes such as "There is some evidence of stabilisation but it remains to be seen just how durable this proves to be" and "Grim figures". The analysis "While these figures are obviously bad, they are not as dreadful as feared" isn't overly positive in my opinion either! Seems like a nice balance to me - I for one wouldn't want panic stricken scare mongering, that's no better than the Express front covers glorifying a house price rise! It works both ways.

Interesting. My view is availability has a lot to answer for. I upgraded my house earlier in the year and whilst looking found a huge shortage of nice properties. The nice places were on and off the market so quickly. I still keep an eye on my new area and there just is nothing of interest.

Yeah, my parents (boomers) really lucked out with that stock market crash that saw a substantial amount of their pension wiped out. Growing up without central heating or an inside toilet. Saving for years to buy their first house, working from the age of 16 with little to no time off. Not going abroad for the first time until in their 40s. Yet, I find myself having arguments on various forums with people of my own generation (Y) about the impossibility of living without a mobile phone or how can one possibly get through a year without jetting off. Perhaps this new lifestyle has a cost? The only way I can see that our parents were lucky would be because they had no choice, we do have the choice but decide buying a house isn't a priority until the time we actually want to put down roots and start a family. Bit too late then though... I'm sitting next to a poor priced out individual right now. Funny how he's just managed to sign up to a £700 iPhone contract. Next week he's off to Egypt - bit cold in the UK right now. Etc, etc. Etc. Choices.

Sold a flat at 600k? Yep does seem a good move - goes to show some people out there must still have more money than sense! I can't really comment though as I just bought a 5 bed london town house - paid less than 600k for it that's for sure!! But, job permitting, at least I'll be debt/mortgage free in my early 50s which is better than my parents managed. But yeah, I'm sure prices have a long way to go, so good for you .

What were all these people doing?? Sounds like a much needed trim to me. Been replaced by a computer I expect.

"Doing up" a house always seems easy - yeah just throw 20k at it and all will be well. I think programs like Property Ladder hide the real hard work that goes into it. Personally I found the light decorating required in my new place a complete nightmare lol. But yeah, there are and always have been bargains to be had. My parents afforded their London town house back in the 80s only because they bought a wreck in a less nice area (at the time) which they then did up with kids to look after at the same time! They saved for years to have enough money to even do that. Its a myth that things were easy back in the "old days" its just that now people seem less inclined to settle for less - even though they can't afford not to lol! So yeah, you could buy a place like that and do it up and have a nice first home, just like my folks did. Or you can have a moan on a website. It's up to you ! Anyone see the repeat of the 1st ever question time a couple of weeks ago from the 1970s? Made me laugh when the panel pointed out their worries over affordable housing for the youngsters and increasingly violent youth. Oh how things have changed.... or maybe it's just our attitudes?

Buy a house you like and can afford. Do that and you can't go wrong imo. When I bought my second place with the Mrs this was all we cared about. We pooled our equity, discussed how much were were comfortable spending each month. As mentioned fix those rates if IR rises are a concern. We built in a level of comfort and a rainy day fund to cover a couple of years of high rates (remember the HPC doctrine - its always cyclical - oh wait this time it's different lol!). We will also over pay and out mortgage allows us to build up payment holiday time. Of course we may lose our jobs etc but then that's always a risk. I think you have to take a measured rational approach to things, if you assumed the worst all the time you'd never leave the house (because the proverbial bus might just run you over!). If £1200 a month seems unaffordable to you and it doesn't get you a house you like... it doesn't seem a bright move. But be careful taking advice from this site, if I had listened when I first came here I wouldn't have bought my first place in 2005... which I then sold earlier this year for 25k more than I paid without spending a penny on it. But hey, what do I know. But like I said, buy with your eyes open, bare in mind prices *probably* will go down, IRs may go up, etc and if you can prepare for that and can afford a house you like then get on with your life. I'm happy I did. I know that in <25 years time before Im in my mid 50s I'll own a London town house outright. Hardly a slave to debt for life imo. Sure I accept it might be more than others have to pay. Prices may go down and IRs go up meaning y'all pay more anyway... And who knows, maybe the HPC gurus are wrong - it has been known !

Not going anywhere. Daily Mail reports aside, there is positive stuff in the UK. Despite all the talk of gloom etc I have yet to get stabbed by a hoodie, lose my job, lose my house, get killed by the NHS, be priced out of the house market, etc. All seems good to me. I am clearly just the luckiest person in Britain of course. Long may that continue !

Milan is English. Milano is Italian. This is an English speaking forum? If ya gonna be pedantic get it right. Even wikipedia agrees and, as we all know, you don't mess with wikipedia (don't go changing it on me !) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Milan Much in the same way that eg the French call London 'Londre' etc. I think Italians call it Londra? I bet you kept telling them all "no it's London gawd darn it". But in Italian !

Will the loan be paid back?

yeah it's funny how many "millionaire" biographies contain a "made a million lost a million" story in their past. People who are hungry enough will find a way, personally I'm not so sure being "rich" is all what it's cracked up to be, but I'd like to find that out for myself hehe! Congrats on the new smeg. Why didn't he say he had some extra "holiday" to use up. He'd been working so hard he had built up some flexitime. Or perhaps a good old fashioned medical issue. Man no wonder he lost his job!

Well there are plenty of people around (!) who always suspected we wouldn't see anything massively dramatic. It was ironic that a site that so actively condemned pro price ramping spin couldn't curtail it's own house price dumping spin! Things will bumble up and down over the next few years I'm sure making it increasingly difficult to "guess" the optimum time to buy (as if anyone could do this with certainty anyway...! - although I'm sure some will claim that they did!). This makes the "buy a house because you can afford it and want it" brigade look increasingly the most sensible. I'm glad I didn't put my life on hold when I first found this site back in 2003. But it's the people who are left without a choice that I feel sorry for.

Although HPC seems to be a "campaign" site I have personally not seen much action being lead by the site, which is a shame really. They need a Martin Lewis, someone who will actually do something. Sadly this forum has traditionally been more about discussion than action. But out of those 15,000 who would actually pay any money, and I mean actually pay, not just say they would! Micro payment schemes are notoriously unsuccessful on the net!

Yay for blame culture. It's always someone else's fault isn't it. Some how I (an 80s child) own a house and have a career and enjoy living in the UK but who's fault is that?

Agreed, changing the valuations is pointless and a waste of time and money lol! It isn't the fairest tax in the world, why should someone pay more just because they own a bigger house. My parents for example own an upper banded house but now they are retired their ability to pay is substantially reduced. My parents were never big earners but chose to prioritise owning a nice house over other day to day things (much like I have). Being penalised for choosing a more expensive house at the expense of holidays and a fast car seems wrong to me. I'm pro flat rate taxes, everyone pays the same, scrap the bureaucracy, some reckon we'll all end up paying less. But if not that, a per person fee seems better (hmm hasn't that been tried !) or income tax.

I wonder how much gold one could earn by investing the time and energy invested in this thread elsewhere I liked Mitchell's comment on Gold in this weeks "Mock the Week"... We'll always need gold? We need food, we need water, we need a house, but the one thing we'll never need is gold!

Interestingly though Lily actually gained popularity by giving music away for free - she was one of the first artists to come through myspace. But this wasn't enough to gain the momentum to break through. The reality is you need "backing" to really push into people's homes to actually make any real money. My sister is a professional musician and life is hard for anyone trying to make a living by being an expert guitar, piano, drum player etc. If you wanted her to play on your new album you're going to have to pay her a fee (not all that much - she really does just scrape by!). Someone has to foot that bill upfront. Someone has to pay for the studio. Sure there are low cost alternatives - but remember most of the output through low cost alternatives is total sht. We can all list some exceptions, but even they have followed up with bigger budget albums and thank god for that! As someone points out above, 90% of music is rubbish. Be careful what you wish for - sooner or later you might find 100% of music is rubbish. But at least it will be free ! I do agree that some artists seem a little silly, I mean, do they really need/deserve millions and millions - wouldn't a real artist do the same for say 20 or 30k a year and lead a happy life? But I still believe they should get paid, I think the "free" music brigade has failed to really put forward an argument as to why they shouldn't pay for music. They always sound like they just want something for nothing. The argument always seems to be that it now costs nothing to get the music so why should it have a cost. Completely forgetting that someone's time and effort went into making it in the first place. And no, not everyone can sell out Wembley either!! An album cost about £8 from cdwow etc, it's not really a lot of money for something that might have taken months to produce and will potentially give you the listener hours and hours of pleasure. Is £8 *really* too much to ask? Sure, I agree that I don't want to spend £8 on a sht album, but most online services allow you to listen before you buy so that's nolonger an issue. I really don't get the resistance to paying a few pounds to someone for the work that they have done.

I agree that I would also not say it's over until we actually see the falls stop. It reminds me of everyone saying its all about to crash. Any day now. Definitely by 2004 we'll see a crash. OK we were wrong, but definitely by 2005, hmm, 2006? In the same way that I said then, lets wait 'til we see something meaningful, lets do the same when waiting for the next change of direction. And remember it is cyclical - unless it's different this time ! But for the record, I also believe that things won't crash to nothing. It has always amused me how people joked when the "sheeple" thought HPI would be infinite yet some of this herd seem to think that the economy will shrink to nothing. I guess anything is possible, but it seems kinda unlikely. Buying a house will be the least of our problems in that scenario anyway !

But rates didn't stay super high for long, in that time you can drop to IO, if you don't stretch in the first place you can bare the cost from your wages, and finally if you have built up equity through overpayments whilst times are good (like right now!) you can take repayment holidays with no agreement required (at least my provider NW allows that). Remember the old HPC doctrine: It is always Cyclical! Oh, is it different this time tee hee ! I agree that I don't feel comfortable taking that risk on, but I will ensure I will do things to mitigate the risk. For example overpayments made now due to the £1000s knocked off thanks to current low rates will make a massive difference to your exposure. I'm sure we all know people who have cut their loan duration by 10 years thanks to the recent drops. Don't know what the difference overpayments make - plug some numbers into the excellent mortgagesexposed site spreadsheets. Not really so bad is it? I am still entirely unconvinced that buying in recent years was such a bad move for some people, sure they paid more for the house, but actually the total cost of ownership may be far less than people buying now but at higher interest rates. It's not as simple as some make out.

hehe amusing to see HPC's appalling record of predictions was upheld

Crikey, turning to HPC forum for advice.... Still, it makes more sense than going through the sums with an IFA...

How do we know which crystal ball to believe?

On the plus side, by then I will be mortgage free - yay!

yikes - does this show just how averse to saving we really are. Option 1: Come out of education, save for 5 - 10 years, use the money to buy a house. Option 2: Come out of education, live with parents, spend that 100% disposable income on booze, holidays and an iPhone, then sell kidney. I chose option 1. BTW is it just my mates that are moaning about house prices yet have signed up to £1k iPhone contracts. It's sad, I went through the calcs with the guy next to me just last week, when we factored in a few thing like smoking, phones etc I was able to show that he'd have about 20k by now (we're heading into 30's booooo!). Even more if he'd made an effort to save. I do have a view that many of us think we are much more wealthy than we really are. Having the time for recreation, owning gadgets, etc all requires wealth. We think our parents were much better off but my parents only bought a house by working long hours and giving up holidays, luxuries, etc. Yet I see people fresh into work who have not yet accumulated any wealth yet spending. I know we all agree on this one because HPC is anti credit and borrowing and pro working and saving, but I feel like ranting anyway lol. I understand this is a reflection of my peers and I fully appreciate that some people have very different circumstances. It is those that have not had the options that I feel sorry for. But my mates who made the wrong choices, you can't live a "rich" lifestyle for 10 years and not have to pay for it. You made your choice... now get saving or shut up! (or sell a kidney? )

looks like it followed a sharp upward movement this morning - maybe that's got something to do with it !