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StarGazing

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  1. It's breathtaking, this thread. I have spent less time reading it, having been put on the naughty step, but do come back to see if there's anything new and it's just the same old tired arguments. People are now doing mental and political gymnastics to simply support their argument whilst not actually now supporting their own initial argument. One thing I can say with absolute knowledge, is people who voted leave, are now in a position they'll mostly support any type of actual leaving the EU, despite the known damage it will cause *, just to 'win' and that worries me. There's one exception in Dave who wants to crash the economy, and that literally is the only argument I can understand. One of the biggest ironies for me, is leaving one union on order to take control of our own union (not my words) will end up with England leaving maybe a further two unions. As an aside, one company I know 2 EU companies I work with now seeking new partners through inviting tenders from EU companies for a lot of work. A lot of that work actually is currently fulfilled by UK companies, one of which is mine. * I think it's now fully accepted we will be damaged in any 'leave the EU' scenario, some obviously worse than others.
  2. So, anyone still think we're leaving this year? I see a GE before that happens.
  3. Whatever happens between now and Oct 31st, we'll not leave without a deal, as there's not enough of a majority in the house that will support it and the speaker has made it obvious he'll allow bills in that would specifically stop a no deal brexit if that is indeed the will of the house, which it is. Anyone who thinks we're leaving on 31st Oct or before really is living in a world in which only they could explain what is going on. We're never leaving without a deal and, as Johnson said, we're getting to the stage where it is no longer the will of the people to actually leave. It's all turning in on itself. lovely seeing Farage burst into Peterborough yesterday, then slope off out a side entrance once he was beaten, again... The UK electorate surprise me with their will not to let that slimey coke supper and his party into Parliament, in one of the most brexity places in the UK, but to hear him state that 29% of Peterborough should be listened to was quite galling.
  4. I notice Farage is taking a note out of his masters book: anything that is pro BP, is news, anything against it, is fake news. the less intelligent amongst us will fall for this and it's why it's important BoJo goes to court and is found guilty of lying in a public office, as then we can hold all politicians to account.
  5. As someone else said, the moment Farage has to deliver something, he runs and hides. I have never before seen such a crass, craven and open liar as he, one who will say and do anything to further himself. Genuinely. He talks of getting a gun and going to the frontline but avoids places for milkshakes. In the UK we've had a long tradition of throwing shit at politicians, for hundreds of years, as an insult, yet he's scared of it. Milliband, Prescott, god knows how many others recently, have all been aged and taken it for what it is. I am ashamed of this country, the way it's pandering to the likes of Farage and, ultimately, Bannon. Shame on us.
  6. If turnout is 40% that's only 16% of the vote. Means nothing in the end, and also means nothing to the Brexit process, as they will have not one single parliamentary vote and not one in the EU either, as that is all down to the EU27 heads of state.
  7. 2016 - No second ref. 2017. No second ref. 2018 - Definitely no second ref. Jan 2019 - Absolutely no second ref. March 2019 - Could be a second ref. May 2019 - You can vote for having a second ref. I think it's clear how politics are shaping and to be honest, just May putting that language out there pushes the likelihood of a second referendum ever so closer. I've said for years, it's been an inevitability since the first one: informed consent. Anyone voting for the Brexit Party and saying they've got rid of their extreme UKIP membership need their bumps felt, imo. The bloke is a charlatan and cares even less for the UK than I do.
  8. I am sure you know what I do for a living. Grads are earning 35k in Bristol GD, London more. £80/90k plus bens for Data Engineers with Hadoop, Spark, Scala, Python etc. That used to be the enclave of the banks but this is standards now. I am currently doing some tech work (I do it occasionally to keep my hand in for tech advances) and I am on £740 a day in London/WFH. My wife is close to getting back on the IT wagon and is being pursued at up to 6 figures as a DBA.... Thew money you're talking about doesn't resonate with the industry to be honest with you.
  9. I'd read nothing into that, for if the average salary for a Senior Software engineer in London is £60k, I'll eat my own eyes with a pin hammer; graduates are pulling £35-40k in London as Software engineers, Software engineers in Bristol will earn, typically, between £40-60, seniors £60k up. London is one of the most expensive cities in the world and to attract folk to work there, they have to pay the wages.
  10. Still no respite and I think Farage is doing himself no favours at all with his attitude on shows at the moment, he just comes across as smug and arrogant. I still believe they'll not 'win' the EU elections, maybe that will be the catalyst. I love him portraying himself as 'new politics' but still refusing to tell folk who his donors are, where his money is coming from and not being able to answer straight forward questions about his party on live TV. I am sure the more he appears, the more people will see through him.
  11. Nah, just put whatever is agreed at the end of the day to the people - You voted to leave: THIS is leaving. Do you still want to. That's about as democratic as you could get, and fits a lot of arch leaver pre-referendum ideals. It's also, despite leavers not agreeing, the MOST democratic action available, as no one knew what they voted for in 2016, as evidenced daily by people stating "This isn't what I voted for". OK, so we get there. This is what we think Brexit is, do you agree with it? If anyone disagrees with informed consent, then they aren't, and never were, democrats.
  12. There are several answers to this: 1. If in a second ref it's the most popular decision. 2. If it's proven in court that the first one was interfered with by foreign actors so is annulled and a new one planned. 3. We simply don't have a majority in parliament to deliver a brexit and the EU refuse a further extension so we revoke and invoke again. None of those are all wild leaps in imagination.
  13. I was on both marches (both PV marches too). Whilst the Stop the War march was larger, it's nowhere near the difference you imply. My daughter freaked out at the numbers at the second PV vote, having attended the first one with me, saying that was large. Park Lane/Marble Arch stuffed to the gunnels and up the Edgware Road too. It didn't really move for an hour or so post march. The second one was massive. The march was for a peoples vote, for informed consent to any deal negotiated to leave.
  14. This is just plain crazy; you're conflating actually making the effort to go to London to spend the whole day marching, to walking down the local school and voting. The facts are, UKIP were pretty much wiped out on Thursday in local councils. The conservatives lost the most seats ever in a LE, Labour lost almost as many votes, but less seats, but the 2 properly Pro remain parties gained almost 1000 new seats and took control over lots of councils, pushing even more to NOC. If you think this is in no way indicative of the zeitgeist in the country, then you're not really paying attention to it.
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