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thefruits

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About thefruits

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  1. Very good. I notice the standard response to anyone challenging the quo... accusations of being a troll etc. Well for the record, i'm an OO, with no BTL investment at all. I'm a long time member of HPC (nearly 10 years) and i'm simply interested in all sides to an argument. Why on earth such views are seen as being vilified so much is an amusing stance. Its like the government trying to ban shorting of stock markets. Insane
  2. I sense your vitriol but you miss my key argument. If you have savings, you wish to invest, then where else offers the returns and security that BTL does ? Also, can you argue that by and large, the vast majority of new builds that have been developed to cater for BTL purposes, haven't immeasurably improved the overall quality of the fabric of the housing stock. The regeneration of great parts of many towns and cities across the UK is due to the attraction of BTL as an investment vehicle. In my opinion, this has benefitted the wider community and not just the BTL landlords who have bought the properties. Now if your argument is that you want the investment and the gentrification but not the higher house price that is the result, then that's faulty logic. Its taking your cake, eating it and then asking for a refund. There needs to be an incentive for people to invest in property, otherwise why on earth should they bother ?
  3. Why should BTL be ended asap ? As JoeDavola recognised, those on housing benefit gain from the provision of properties by those who are renting them out (BTL landlords). These people are hardly likely to be those who are trying to buy the properties that the BTL investors are buying, otherwise why would they be on housing benefit ?
  4. Its been interesting seeing how excitable many on here have been about the budget changes to the tax situation for BTL. Question is surely though if it will actually change much other than inflate rents for tenants to ensure the landlords are not out of pocket. Is this really what those who have gone STR etc wanted ? In addition, with falling stock markets, negative savings returns and the threat of cash being stolen from central governments if its left in banks, i'm really surprised anyone should be surprised that BTL remains so attractive. If anything, I would have thought its attraction is only set to get more so. Reading Robert Kiyosaki he puts a strong case for investing in areas that work for you, so you don't need to work yourself. A BTL portfolio is surely a perfect vehicle for anyone who wishes to invest their savings to generate some sort of certainty and security for their old age. In fact, it strikes me that its really the act of a responsible person to look after themselves and their family so they don't become a burden in old age on the social security net. My belief is that right now those who maybe over leveraged and who lack the cashflow buffer to absorb the tax changes might be forced to bail and deliver stock into the free housing market for purchase. I also feel though, this could be a real catalyst for many BTL investors to become even more professional, possibly moving houses into limited company structures, and this could mean they have to take a longer term and hopefully more sustainable approach to delivering quality rentals for people to enjoy. Hence it might become more difficult for BTL investors to flip properties so easily. No harm in that I say. So, in summary, might BTL actually be a boon to those who want the flexibility, without the responsibility that home ownership entails. Might landlords having an interest in securing good rental returns by providing quality accommodation actually benefit those on this site who have STR'd ? Hence, is the hatred really justified ?
  5. I saw this episode and was going to start a thread on it. I can emphasise with the guy. I've been there. I've STR'd (but now bought) , read the Fred Harrison book (18 year cycle anyone), and yet I'm sitting on a property that is apparently making more than my full time nurse wife each month. Its all bonkers. I genuinely felt for the guy. I ended up paying 3.5x the amount that the previous owner did in 2001. In the same way that he caved in, I did likewise after spending alot of emotional capital. In the end albeit with a jumbo mortgage in tow, like the guy on the show, I felt that I lost, defeated by a system that just doesn't tally. # Thing is, live goes on. We fully intend (wishful thinking perhaps) on selling the house in 8 years time (when the youngest goes to uni) and my wife and I are hoping to buy something smaller and cheaper in the sticks with no mortgage. Guess that's the game in town now. Find the greater fool......
  6. Living in Gurgaon, Haryana, India. About 35k's South East of Delhi. Work means I'm here with my family. Property prices here are completely insane. A new 5k sq ft apartment will cost around 1 to 3.5m gbp. Monthly rentals are from 2-7k gbp per month. Key determinant is where the apartment is and who built it. A DLF built property (next to Gurgaon DLF golf club) will cost the upper end and the finish is ok. Key thing is the anticipated life of the flat is around 30-35 years. Often flats have to be completely refurbished inside and out after only 5 years due to the impact of climate and shoddy materials and finishing. A normal flat will cost 10cr. (100m inr or 1m gbp) and it won't be any great quality or size. As for wage multiples. Don't even go there. It makes no sense. All that is happening is that gigantic amounts of black money is being laundered by individuals that make the Wilsons look like complete amateurs. I'd say wages of good professional trades are approx. 30-40% of those in the UK... look at the cost of accommodation and do the math. Makes the UK (excl London) seem very cheap and hence its no surprise so much money is heading to the UK to buy property there. Bargain compared to here. I didn't cover Delhi and Mumbai here. Prices are even more extreme there. Gurgaon is crazy enough on its own.
  7. surely its only a matter of time until its blamed on liar loans... go on you know you want to
  8. I've been a poster on HPC for many years and have been through many stages of optimism and frustration of ultimately buying the house of my dreams, without taking on the mother of all mortgages. Well I have the worlds biggest mortgage and have my dream house. I earn a very good salary yet buying the house wasn't a question of income because those I was going against weren't income rich, they were cash or wealth rich. It struck me that simply having a great job, great income and access to whopping mortgages isn't really always enough. What you need is a whopping inheritance, or to have bought a house for say 100k in 2001, ,sell it for 500k in 2014 and hence a 700k house needs a relatively modest mortgage. Hence I came to the observation that the key determinant in stopping HPI isn't whether Houseprices and Incomes are out of kilter, it is whether the enormous flow of funds triggered by inter-generational gifting / inheritance / overseas sources stops. As it happens, I got lucky but I was staggered how easily I could have lost the house. I paid full asking as I feel they aren't building too many great houses in great locations, (normally one without the other) and I hope its a house I can live in for the next 30 years but crikey... it was touch and go. So.. is the transfer of existing wealth really the key fuel to HPI ? and incomes are becoming irrelevant ?
  9. It staggers me just how many times this point is forgotten. People simply live in the past and yet the world is changing at a ferocious pace outside their front doors. Most foreigners I know with properties in the UK have no mortgage and don't see property in the same way the UK popn do. They see it as a long term store of wealth, for this and future generations. I know several Indian friends who are buying up flats and houses in West London, Paddington and Ealing seem to be very popular hot spots at the moment. They are buying for their kids and their grand kids. Somewhere for the kids to stay when they visit the UK to see families or even to study. The money to buy houses in the UK is mainly inherited or driven by land and property sales in India so the cash profit has been realised and deposited. Absolutely no interest in taking out mortgages, just buy cash. The property pool in prime areas for foreigners (main towns and cities with existing foreign populations) is actually very small compared with the potential demand from overseas (ignoring any domestic demand). There are around 120m SEC A & B Indians (top 2 tiers of Indian socio economic strati) of which around 1-2% would be considered to be seriously wealthy (equating to -1% of total Indian popn). Add Russia, China, Hong Kong, Southern Europe, Middle East).. and you get say a population of say 20-30m people who currently (ignoring that this number is growing fast) possibly interested in having a bolt hole in the UK.. How many properties are there in the UK ? How many desirable properties ? (about 25m properties... about 10-20% desirable ? )..... Hence as long as there is no restriction to foreign owners buying up more and more of the (fixed) UK property real estate, I sense HPI on desirable UK properties will continue for a long long time. Sadly as I have kids who one day I would like to see own a property of their own. So.. would stopping foreign purchasers from getting mortgages stifle HPI Not on your nelly
  10. If I may add my tuppeny worth. If you are investing in a property to make money and it needs any work follow these simple two rules 1) avoid at all costs any listed building 2) never forget rule 1 This property is a grade 2 listed. It will absolutely drain any cash reserves and then some. I see the property is currently in the process of being modified. I bet the current owners simply couldn't afford to keep the place up to the standard the guys (English Heritage ?) wanted. The flat roofs look an utter nightmare as if they leak (AND THEY DO)...they would cost a fortune As for 17 beds. Crazy. I'd start with no more than 6. Do it well and then possibly find another property and do the same. All IMHO of course
  11. hi, What you so conveniently fail to grasp, even when its laid out in front of your eyes in the documentary the OP refers to, is the impact of what you call 'liar loans' is in the greater scheme of what makes UK house prices so expensive (relatively vs past experience), is relatively small, perhaps insignificant. There are a whole host of other more striking contributory input that are more important, and perhaps deserve more focus than the bandwagon you continually choose to ride upon. It would simply be more interesting if you could see this and perhaps focus your attention on the key issues and not a side issue. I start with a) pensions grab (re dividends) by GB in late 90's B ) growth in BRIC economies (especially India, Russia & 'stan countries) - led to soaring demand for houses in London especially - attitude of LTB&H (old fashioned long term buy and hold - effectively removing swathes of properties from the supply to domestic residents at affordable prices) - for example I know many Indians who own numerous properties in the UK, some who have simply bought with a plan that when their children are older they will have somewhere to live when they travel there - hence you have future demand now c) massive boost in immigrant demand (on top of point B ) d) UK - safe haven attraction e) Massive GBP devaluation f) pensions mis-selling scandals & high cost of pensions g) property porn trends h) property is my pension trend i) massive slowdown in new house building I put every one of these ahead of the 'liar loan' issue. I simply think perhaps you have a point, but in the overall scheme its a small point and its time to move on. Personally, I feel point B is one which the impact may only just be raising its head. I don't think its going to unwind as there is a cultural issue at play. In a way its like what is happening with 2nd properties in Cornwall. Its just that the 2nd properties are in London and they aren't necessarily going to come on to the market in the future even if they're left empty. Hence tightening supply and driving house prices higher further dick
  12. What is so past being tiresome is pebbles seemingly perpetual spouting at every (appropriate and not appropriate) opportunity to spout his 'liar loans' speil. The fact is.. we did not get into the financial mess solely due to self cert mortgages. I know a couple of IS contractors who happily took out self cert mortgages because their income stream came in bursts according to contracts starting and finishing. Self cert mortgages gave them the ability to get onto the mortgage ladder, buy a house or two for theirs and their families futures and not feel like second class citizens just because they weren't permies. I think self cert mortgages will make a comeback, with a bit more overview and rigour in approvals but their attractiveness to many segments of the working population is undeniable and I think valuable. Of course.. if fully expect some sort of garbage from pebble in retort which will be very shouty etc... sort of behaviour that makes HPC less inviting to contribute and participate than it previously was... tin hat is on...
  13. I think the apparent strength in sterling is more a repatriation of funds from EM's to 'safer' havens. Even though the UK may be facing a multitude of problems, relatively speaking, it has some things going for it vs. others. The EM situation is interesting as it implies that much of the growth seen in the last 5 years is down to hot money from the US Fed printing presses and once the flow stops then the EM story grinds to a halt. It suggests that there hasn't been progress in development of economic fundamentals in EM but rather a superficial stock and bonds story that has now sought flight back to USD / GBP havens. I think Carney would ideally like for the GBP to be around 1.40 / USD and his words so far tend to suggest this. It would be a level that would help exporters more but ultimately its not in his hands. If the markets deem the GBP to be the least ugly sister then it will be favouored over some less stable currencies.
  14. Again... I don't apologise for saying it. Well done to you too. Funny responses though. I was fully expecting the HPC crew to crow about what an idiot I was and it was the likes of me that got the country into the mess it is now. I was expecting to have to justify the lifestyle I led (which at the time before the oMG moment seemed I guess normal) and in a way, I guess I can.. but I won't as there is no point. With regard to house prices.. I do see a link. In 2006, i would have been thinking of how to get up the ladder further, perhaps in x years time (of course assuming the cc debt would roll on forever or disappear or something random ).... and I would have been looking at the next few rungs up. Yet now, even though we're debt free (apart from the mortgage) and we could if we wanted too get a house which was bigger, shinier, and probably around 800-900k, we don't want to take on any more debt. I guess many pensioners would be looking to downsize and its the likes of me who they would wish to sell their 1m mansions to. Thing is, if the likes of me and others on here aren't in the market to buy the properties, who exactly is going to buy them ? I guess many will approach equity release outfits but I'm sure I heard recently that applications outnumbered viable offers by more than 10:1.. so who is actually going to buy these properties ?
  15. Well done you as well. I actually became physically sick during the OMG moment when I realised how close we were potentially to becoming royally screwed for the rest of our lives. The enormity was of what we needed to do was really scary. Sure i earn a good salary but I also appreciate that this can never be taken for granted even though I've been employed since leaving uni. As for the mortgage. I realise it will sound trite and I don't mean for it to but the old saying location location location is probably the only truism that i suspect will never change over time. Our house is in Wokingham, about 5 mins walk from the station, kids are about 10 mins walk from their schools, we're about 10 mins walk from the town centre. The house itself is nice but the location is unbeatable for us so we'd rather scrimp on everything we can to ensure we can remain where we are. Sure there are bigger houses, with more things, more space, more gardens etc further out of town but the simple attration for us is that we can walk everywhere we need to now, and in 30 years time (I'm early 40's) when what we want is doctors (about 7 mins walk), local pub (about 5 mins walk), and easy access to public transport, then I think we'll be as happy with the location as we are now. Fingers crossed Wokingham doesn't suddenly turn into Slough.
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