heather5

As others have said - once kiddlie arrives - all will change and it'll be your family unit in focus - where you all are is important - but only if you are together - wherever that may be and whenever - even if you do have to move several times over until things fall into place. Someone mentioned about would kiddlie be bullied for being in rented accommodation etc - and someone else mentioned that it's only recently that owning a home has been seen as imperative to having kids. I'll chime in. My parents generation - I'm in my 40's - very few people bought - many were in Council housing - and if not Council - then rented. And they were what was then considered middle-class people - i.e. young parents with professional jobs - but just starting out - like everyone else but the few. It's only in this money grabbing last 20-30 years that some how your house or rather lack of it is perceived as an issue in this country vs who you are and what you stand for - and what you are to others in your community and how you treat your kids. Prior to that - people just did what they could afford housing wise and the kids came - and grew-up and were often none the wiser - and it didn't come into it at school as a kid - in fact - you never even thought of it as a kid until you were 18 or so - and you started comparing yourself to friends or rebelled against your parents saying - I'll never be rented accommmodation when I marry and have kids. Countries elsewhere - it's very rare in a place like HK and even cities in China - for the locals to actually own - and they've rented tiny places and brought up the kids successfully - such that encouraging their education and supporting them towards a better life has been more important than where they live. India is similar in my experience - but that's 15 years-ago. France, Germany and other places with top cities - many families rent because buying is not the thing there - sure they do have better tenancy protection than here - and that's what should be changed in this country to my mind - rather than encouraging people to buy what is stupidly unaffordable or what is wholely inappropriate for their situation. It's only this country that there is an obsession. My Gran & Grandad rented a Council house - and brought up 4 kids there - and my Gran, now 97 - still lives in the house - although it is falling down around her because the Council won't pay for the structural upkeep. In fact, as some have said here - you are being a very responsible person by not getting into debt you can't afford or which sacrifices your life with them just to pay for it. It's odd times - and the property market is odd - but kids will settle wherever if they have a loving family around them who helps them understand what's going on - particularly as if it's presented as a new opportunity. Sure, they have to upsticks and make new friends - but that's what they'll have to do as adults - so building confidence young will help them. You may have to move several times over for your job - and your family will have to follow you - just make sure you are a strong family emotionally - and you'll cope with it. I was brought up in rented accommodation - as was my brother - it was only when there were three of us - and my Dad had progressed that we went to bought (a new build on a special deal). Again, it's the laws for renting that need to be changed rather than you slavishly buying. Finally, bullying - I suffered severe bullying as a kid - had my arm broken, regularly beaten-up, head down the loo - by the local kids - all middle-class well to do kids - but by that time my parents had bought a huge big house (run down and almost derelict at a knock-down price - still wasn't done-up by the time I left home) - and the deal was - I lived in a big house - and they lived in a slightly smaller one. So go figure. Don't worry about it - go with the flow - and enjoy parenthood - particularly when they are young - they don't need much other than you and they won't know about what environment they are in until they are - well by today's standard - 8-ish? Good luck with the birth - what a joy - and enjoy.

I agree with the number of the audience who say they've had no info for these elections about their MEPs. I have no idea who's in my area and standing - haven't had a single piece of literature or heard them on local radio/tv. Also the woman who said so little is actually reported in the press or by the media about European Parliament. A Norweigan MEP was on R4 some weeks ago saying that MEPs were turning into millionaires by virtual of salary and expenses - and that's why people were standing. He, by the way, like some others, donates the money he doesn't use genuinely on expenses to charities. Nigel says that the MEPs salaries are going up by 45% - where is that in the headlines!!!! Would anyone bother voting next week if that was commonly known.

prog was on 8:30-9pm. Shame it's not repeated later considering all the other repeats that go on. Interesting it was on the BBC given that there are some lone voices out there asking for the BBC and expenses to be put in the spotlight.

Unbelievable - so when they leave the job, either by choice, voted-out or kicked-out - they get 12 months severance pay (i.e. 12 months salary). Increadible - that even people I know who get made redundant having worked for 30+ years in a firm or local council - bare get more than 3 months. I don't understand how those who are close to London - and could easily commute - have to have second homes. Their argument is that they have committees etc and late night sittings so can't get home - would be interesting to know how many of those actually have 2nd jobs and directorships from which they get money. And as for the MP who sought donations for his party celebrating 25 years in office - tax free party at no cost - and they wonder why we're all agast at their behaviour.

Sincere apologies - I tried to read all threads and came in to late to keep up - so apologies if I repeat what's said before. Regulation of the internet is already in existence - the question is to what extent and who is that regulation benefitting? In my work area - we are monitored on internet usage - and given that there is a corporate solution in place governed by an external supplier called websense (who blocks stuff by download to our system - a bit like applying an antivirus software to your pc) - so you have no control - on top of that we have other layers of software blocked and other stuff blocked - it's all controlled to the point why you wonder why they are blocked by websense in the first place. But you can arrange for stuff to be unblocked but you have to fill in millions of forms to do it - by which time you've gone home - downloaded - put it on your usb key and uploaded it to your pc. Now we're about to get a new corporate solution that stops anyone on our 6,000 computers uploading anything without it being monitored - and even then there will be a corporate block of certain stuff. The Internet is already being blocked for use if you are a corporate user - and has been for years and years now - at least 6, since I've been working in a corporate environment. As I've said - the only way around it, is your home pc - but is that what Mandelslime wants to restrict? So he wants all ISP suppliers and all major internet suppliers - in all their various forms - to come up with a GOVERNMENT WEBSENSE to block all website that the GOVT say we shouldn't see? So we'll get those annoying messages saying - THE GOVERNMENT WEBSENSE HAS BLOCKED THIS WEBSITE - stuff you! Is that what the Chinese get at this moment - isn't that what they've been trying to do and have been working with Google for years and have employed them at great cost to actually limit the search such that - rather than WEBSENSE giving you a message that you are blocked - that you just get reduced Google and assume it's okay - without even being aware you've been blocked from certain sites? So Mandelslime wants to curtail freedom of information although he's not yet got to his next post as Home Secretary - and has absolutely no understanding whatsoever of how the internet is reallly used by business? As was earlier suggested - this has NOTHING WHATSOEVER TO WITH THE INTERNET - it is the govt trying to stop us having access to information about them that is detrimental. WE SHOULD FIGHT THIS FOR SURE AS IT IS WRONG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! And the day this comes into this country - although I'm very old - I have nothing to lose since I built up nothing during this govt other than debt - I will leave - don't care where I go - I will just leave and live somewhere in a hut on a beach illegally. But I will do all I can to give back to the society that gives me that hut (although I will pay for it) by teaching kids all the skills I know - or teaching divers - or ploughing the rice-paddies - whatever it takes until I'm 90 and fit to drop - and if I'm lucky to live that long - I will continue. I'd rather that than live under the regime that Mandelslime is proposing.

I'm beyond depressed at this tread and it's replies. My God - I thought that this was a site full of clever enlightened people who were younger than me that would took politics the next level. No wonder we're ******ed - doesn't make any difference if you've got rid of the speaker or not - now I'm wonder if Ezter Ranzen is a better bet. You guys certainly aren't - and I'm questioning my membership to this site.

Despite the headline - I raised this post based on the fact that already in Councils - although all jobs are graded - and supposedly grades are adhered to and applied to overall - that it turns out that Councils are awarding BONUSES - to male employees and ONLY male employees. This is being championed by lawyers - and so this will hit the headlines - perhaps later rather than sooner since it involves women. But for a long time now I've wondered how friends of mine who are employed by the Council do look after those of us with degenerative diseases - on lesser grades than the bin-men - are given the salary they are as most are women. I've also know men who thought that - after redundancy recently - that doing a female orientated job as a carer was an easy job - and have quit within a week - because it was physically too "hard" - and they didn't see why they should be paid so little for such "physical" work.

I'm just stunned by the replies in this day and age bar one - think it does prove that the programme was timely and given the credit crunch and all it implies for new parents - there are those out there who've just missed the point lock stock and barrel - including this site - where I had previously thought there were enlightened contributors. May you all beget girls - and then come back to me in 20 years time and say it's all wrong!

How sad that the two posts fit the stereo type given the strong leads of the two journalists concerned. In my office - totally male orientated 20:1 ration in my team - and two of them are out on paternity leave - both having begotten girls. When they come back I will be quizzing them since both have female partners earning more than they are - and the arguments will ensue about who looks after sproglets given the amount of money it costs in child-care. This programme seems to be raising something there - and that is - what is equality - and how does it affect society today. I do have male friends who are chosing to look after their kids - since their partners earn more. In the end it's a purely a financial reason is what I suspect will be the outcome. But the two replies - if you are genuine - you're obviously single and have no partners!!

Stumbled on this programme by mistake but it's very interesting to learn that Bolton City Council actually give bonuses to men of up to 50% and Birmingham give bonuses to men of 125% for jobs of the same grade. Very interesting so far - particularly public interviews - gosh - the world has so not changed!!! And amazing that they are interviewing kids and testing out their perception of jobs and which should be boys/girls and why they've chosen what they have - and it's role models. Those of you with kids - particularly with girls - should be watching this!! Some of it though from the male interviewer is a little bit sexist - surprising since he's a lead journalist so I can only assume his playing a role too for the sake of the programme.

I've posted time and time again on the subject for the past two years. Public sector was already starting the culling two years ago by Gordon - when the critics started about the public sector being over-bloated. Public sector people are used to being restructed every few years - redundancies and the like are norm for us every year - just every so often it goes into over-drive and it went into over-drive two years ago. What's annoying is that GB inflated consulatants on a major scale - and provided money to local govt to hire them - by purely saying the money available was only available for consultants - so of course - councils hired these people since Gordon told us they would be paid by govt to do the work the govt wanted to do. So the head count went up - and the consultants coined it in - I still work with some - one is an ex-banker and is paid 3 x my salary - and I have to teach him every step of the way how to take projects forward. He was a bank manager - and for some reason beyond my understanding - is employed as a Managing Consultant for ICS - integrated children's services - he knows nothing about a Council - let alone the It systems supported - let alone the customers - but there he is - earning 3 x my salary +. In our Council - we have so many consultants and project managers on contracts - who don't even understand IT - let alone social services and the customers they work with - that I wonder why Gordon Brown has given them this money. On the pensions front - we're finding numerous Heads of Service are suddenly taking early retirement - because this is the way the get out!!!!!!!!! It's a nice argument that all Public Sector employees should be crucified because they will get better pensions - but some of us have sacrificied other stuff just to get that pension - namely salaries - we get stuck on a grade and can't improve - get bonus pay, or other such nonsense - share options - we just stay where we are for year in and year out - sure we can get out - and we do - but mostly those that sit in the high places - our Exec Director is on the 200k list - but it doesn't bother him . Saying all public sector employees should be culled or penalised for pensions is really wrong - start targetting it - like the clever woman who did all the stuff in the Telegraph. It's not the minions at the bottom who are doing all the damage - in fact, they are doing all the good - and they are looking after your demented Mum for £5+ an hour and no pension!!! So can you be a bit more clever about all of this and stop this crap about public sector workers as a whole and start getting down to the real areas that deserve your wrath and actually can you start doing some about it other than pissing me off on this website!!!!

For what it's worth - I go with Kara Gee's questions initially. Plus you need to stop panicing - things will change - how much so - we don't know, that's the gamble - but many out there are saying sit tight for 5 years - and things will then start changing - some even saying that 100% loans will be back - but hey, I think they are on a different planet. Can you afford to sit and wait that long whilst things sort themselves out? Is your sister so irresponsible that she'll lose it before that time? Is she someone who is prepared to work 2 jobs and get the money in? If not, can you do a deal on the property so that you are responsible for the percentage you put in - and pay your mortgage equivalent (deducting what you've already put in) and then get it in writing that you will get x amount when it's sold. Please note that with siblings these things MUST BE IN WRITING. I stress it because we have a family scenario too - nothing in writing - all a family agreement - so no recourse for action and now families divided beyond all measures for reasons I can't even get to understand despite trying to be the negotiator as it's all to do with sibling rivalry when 5 years of age - and financial reality seems to be out the window although they are both in their 40s!!! One was a BTL - on the up and up -was approached by sibling2 not on the up and up - to get a slice of the cake. So sibling1 on the up and up let in sibling2 on the down and down in by buying him 3 properties with a small nest egg - and agreed to manage them for free for x amount of years. Sibling2 got loads of money back for very little effort - over-paying mortgage for what was being received as interest rates had gone down and he had been advised by S1 to do a tracker. S1 proposed a do-er-upper - in good area for rental purposes but said need x amount spending to get it up to scratch (does it all the time in his business) - S2 - since getting good returns said was in it for long term - at least 15 years - so do it but gave limited sum to do up. S1 discovered problems with the structure - and so spent £20k of his own money to get it to the point S2 came in - now S2 says - I'm not paying anymore - because it's not been rented out and I've lost a couple of thousand - so sell it and I'm not renting it or paying any more towards it - you absorb the costs - S1 had to buyout S2 - and is hanging on to it for the next 20 years - as it will recoup the money - but the relationship has divided the family such that it will never be the same again. By the way S1 - because I'm in my late 40s, female and single - and have never earnt enough (having worked for charities all my life and now the Council) - wanted to help me on the property ladder a number of years ago before all this happened - but I said no - I knew that the property market would pan out this way - because I stumbled on HPC in early 2000 and I knew I could never pay the money back when I got out the excel spreadsheet and worked the figures. Don't ever get into property issues with siblings - or families as a whole - those who succeed are really rare!!!!!!! When the relationship gets into trouble for these reasons - they don't recover - and now I'm discovering that the kids of the next generation are being told stuff about why things have failed according to their parents - and those relationships are being damaged and the kids in that family generation are forming opinions to their peers based on this. Not a good way to go. Personally - you buy in - and sit tight for the next 5 - 10 years. Then you get your money but by then - she'll have sold and moved on at a loss or profit depending on her partner - you just need to decide if you think family is worth it.

Just seen an ad for Monday's ITV 8pm slot - apparently about FTB coming back in as the market has bottomed out - interesting if they are being encouraged to go-for it! The EA rises again from the depths ..... buy, buy, buy!

Thank you very much for posting this link. I have to admit - I didn't think to question where this had all originated from let alone what it might have taken to get it to surface in the way that it has. And, it's amazing that she did it and has achieved the result she has - persistence pays off but I guess she knew from get-go that once the information was not available - there was a story to uncover that would be of interest - perhaps not knowing how big it was. Rather ironic - that she got people offering to do stuff pro bono - and yet the amount of tax payers money that must have been spent by the govt on this is shameful - let alone the amount of MPs time it took up because they had a vested interest in preserving their "rights". I think that they should give back their time now - since it was at our expense - never mind the money they give back on their claims. I wish that this link had been out there sooner - or even in the papers - and had appeared on Question Time lastnight! Absolutely unbelievable to think that these people really do rule our country - and have such attitudes despite seeing people in surgeries every day - particularly now - with huge problems - and lose homes only based on a few thousand of debt - not sure how the hell they could sit their listening without squirming. In fact, I'd love for it to come out next of those people who consulted the MPs over the last x amount of time over just such issues - when the MP had been creaming it in expenses at the expense of the person in front of them - perhaps that's the next layer Heather/Telegraph should go for.

The guy who only earned 12k - and was living at home with his Mum - everything perfectly organised in that little room he has. And had saved a bit - and hoped to get a place of his own - in a town where 10 years ago - 48k would secure him a small 1 bed cottage - if not a bit more - had my heart strings. Seeing him doing what he was doing - and teaching those kids - and working all hours - and someone who was well respected by colleague - it's sad that he can't afford a one-bed place to be independent - and then grow from that. He's obviously mid to late 20s - so of an age where he's got where he is of his own valition - and I think he deserves a break. So please let's not knock such people for their dreams - okay - it is very unrealistic in this climate - but he does a good job - he is obviously given back to society and good at it - but doing a low paid job - previously - he'd have got a Council House pre-Maggie - but since then it's impossible for people like him. Please don't let's be a site which just revels in lack of understanding of those out there who are the same as us. Hopefully - as he's still young - he'll find a way.

One of the biggest problems with IT in this country is NOT IT - and not the techies - it's that somewhere along the line someone came up with a business model that said that on top of the techies who do the work you need a manager, a project manager and a Business manager to oversee the project manager and manager and then - when the project shows signs of slowing down - another project manager to manage the project manager, etc. On top of that you have the group manager and then the director (who hasn't a clue what's going on by that point other than some silly stats generated from yet another management system which tells him whether or not the project has been completed). If you think that I am joking - I am NOT!!!! It's all very clever that they came up with ITIL - Prince II was a sound idea at the time - but all of those posts have been taken by "managers" with no IT skills who don't even understand what you are talking about when you tell them the risks and who seem to think that the person actually doing the implementation - is the last person who needs to be consulted. The weak area in the UK - particularly from a govt perspective, is most definitely the project management - and the weak skills when these managers buy-in software - without consulting the techies - massive amounts of money are spent in advance of techies being involved by lawyers drawing-up contracts etc - and by huge numbers of managers saying - based on a little "demo" by the software company - this is what we want - and then selling it to the business - who haven't a clue anyways - but just think that because it's a pretty front end - it's what they want. I've been down this road countless times in both private and govt orgs - and I'm fed-up with it so much so that at the moment I'm saying it pretty much every day in our organsation and saying why do I have to explain stuff to 5 extra "management" types who don't understand what I'm saying anyways - why don't you get Project Managers that understand IT. In my organisation they have another layer on top of that for ITIL purposes - 6 staff (paid more than IT staff) to talk to the customers - which they don't, they just take the request, then field it to IT to sort out if it's a genuine request or not because they don't have the technical expertise to assess it. As a techie I've forced myself to be on some projects at initial stages purely because I wanted to know what the hell they thought they were buying into - even to the point of talking to the lawyers (fun that was, not!). From an IT perspective several - particularly govt driven projects - were a no-no - they were never going to work - thinking of govt projects in the last 5 years - oh yes, and GAP Gemini are behind them - I said very clearly then - as a lowly IT person - it won't protect your data - it will corrupt it. But then the Business wanted it - because of the pretty front end - never mind that under the hood - it corrupts the data such that a social worker will look at a record and think that the kid is not a risk because the data has been overwritten because of some silly syncronisataion software that never worked (from Holland in this case but developed in India). When I first got the spec - I told them this would happen - but Management were so gun-ho about get their targets ticked and making sure the "business" bought into - and the Project Managers - acted as sellers of a product they didn't understand - despite screaming from the rafters of what it would take to maintain going forward etc. When I joined, I was a dba - that's all I was - and now I find my day being taken up with dealing with educating mangers and project managers and minions of project mangers on what is required of a basic upgrade of one tiny component. Before - we just told the business direct - that's what you want - these are the risks - here's your test bed - let us know - no managers of managers and manager of more managers involved. Okay, sure there are some that blag it in IT - but most techies I have come across - know their onions - although I will admit - some of them are lacking in communication skills - they talk so techie and don't seem to be able to relate it to ordinary people - but these days - they are few and far between. I'm about to be outsourced by the way - because the costs in IT are so "heavy" - it's been earmarked as an area for culling - so what are they doing - culling the techies - leaving all the management - but then leaving the other techies with more than they can deal with or are qualified to deal with (but then as techies we get out the manual - take it home - and come back in and do it). Now what's happening is the the Project Managers are moaning at us for not keeping to their deadlines (never consulted with us anyways until last minute) and now we have to have a management meeting with the techies and all layers of management as to why the techies aren't able to do the work. Absolute madness!!!!

Newsnight - it'll force the recession to last longer. Basically - they don't have equity to face the losses they have on their books and the extra billions are inadequate. Too much uncertainty in the losses - so they are looking at the bear minimum of sorting out - so american banks looking at stuff Gordon's been doing here - and not popular with the Americans. If we thought there was a crisis over - it's not there but from now - this is the cleaning up and after which the real bail-outs will start!!!! And which will dictate how the economy will really go.

This is one subject that as an older person - it does get my goat (when will that phrase come back into being?). There are lots of issues with this and it's just another mad scheme not thought-out by those in government - just a headline to get votes - perhaps - or a pretence that they are thinking it through and it makes sense? With supposed economic gurus adding weight to it because it works in their best interest for huge reasons I daren't even touch on. On the face of it - it does make sense (as people are suppposedly living longer (or rather the CURRENT generation are living longer so they assume we will)) - that we work longer to help pay for all the money that has been squandered by the government in the last 10 years never mind all the pension pots raided by Gordon Brown to raise money for his various schemes which has left even previous profitable and well placed pension schemes now struggling such that in his time - final salary schemes are almost a dirty word when previously - although job security went by the wall - there was a feeling that you were working and getting some benefit from doing so that would protect you in your later years. I would add that many in the CURRENT generation of retirees did so early by our standards - not just Applegate - but many in the last 10-15 years were able to retire at aged 50 or not much beyond. I know Head Teachers who retired exactly on 50 with fantastic pensions - and didn't bother doing more because it wasn't in their interest to do so - and they'd bought their houses etc when we didn't have silly prices and multiples. Ditto - Heads of Service at Councils - and people in private companies who made their money, got their final salary - and that was it. I won't ever have enough money to retire let alone own a home and I'm late 40s. This is partly because I've never married and most of the jobs I've done have been traditional (for my era) secretarial type / admin jobs / working for charities, paying salaries enough to get by. Many women I know have had kids - and then been involved in a messy divorce - and gone out to work at Tescos, as cleaners - trained as nurses, school assistants - jobs which although worthy - are still low paying - many to fit in with kids. I also know a number who are in their late 30's with the kids leaving trying to train as teachers for the first time starting from the ground-up without any qualifications whatsoever - pinning their hopes that the need for teachers will continue - and that all the ads are true about £35k +. I would be happy to continue working until 70, if the government could assure me that my job will be there for me to do - or a variation of it - even if it meant a pay-cut as I got older. I cannot see a massive change in the culture that sees it as normal for an employer to employ someone who turns up for an interview aged 60 for a new job and thinks that they'll get another 10 years out of them when there's a keen 25 year-old desperate for a job. Not in professional circuits - and even in retail - it's admirable that the retail sector has tried to overcome this barrier - namely B&Q - but even then - they got highly skilled people working for a pittance - because that's all the skilled person could get - hence builders with former companies working at B&Q. I know friends whose jobs are being outsourced - and they know that they don't stand a look-in because they are hitting their 50s - although it's their post that's supposedly being outsourced - it's odd how many of them are facing redundancy and are of that age group. So if the govt say that 70 is the new 50 - does this mean that Generals etc in armies are also going to be working until they are 70 leading men in the field and making snap decisions affecting their lives? Of course, there are private doctors out there doing surgery of that age - and highly skilled - but how many nurses are allowed to continue working to that age? Is this yet another ploy by Labour to ensure that you don't get a state pension - and get job seakers allowance instead - and to help towards the public sector pension issue - i.e. they won't get a pension until 70 (and many will never claim at all due to early ill-health and death) - so dinner ladies will be in a minority working until 70. Few people I do know who have ever continued to work to that age - health aside - are some musicians (who then switched to teaching), consultants who worked for themselves including accountants, IT specialists (and generalists with lots of different Infrastructure skills and knowledge), engineers, solicitors- who got high-up the ladder and made Senior Partner - or local solicitors with their own firms. In fact those that have been able to work beyond 60 - have been in what I call the mind-game - i.e. their skills have been built over a life time on a particular subject - and that has been their selling point along with the fact that they have been lucky health wise - and they have mostly been their own bosses as what was previously called the freelance industry - oh ad film directors etc - perhaps creative arts more than most. Anyone else any thoughts about this who are in the mind-jobs in this country - and feel they are secure?

Haven't read all the threads on this post - and judging by the few I read as a precis - I hope it wasn't all along the same lines. Oddly, I add a comment here purely because - in 1997 I was in Bristol - and renting a flat for 6 months - which had previously been let for over 15 years - and when due to divorce - I was the tennant at the receiving end of that commotion. Basically, they decided to sell in 1997 a 1 bed property just outside Clifton - not the best area - put in spitting distance - and asked me if I wanted to buy a 1 bed flat for £75k. At the time I'd just returned to the UK from abroad and didn't realise that I could get a 100% mortgage - I was still working on the 1970s and 1980s when you had to have a deposit of at least 25%, so said No, I couldn't buy. Ironically, have just received a job offer back in the Bristol area - but before accepting - did a rightmove search. In 1998 I bought for a member of my family - since I was renting in the area and knew it - and had advised them this was the best area to buy in outside London - I paid £105K for a 2 bed in Clifton Village - with garden. So I work on that basis - today - and I did a quick search on rightmove - and there is no way we are anywhere near back to those levels - in fact - to be honest - we are a few serious crisis off - from returning to 1997/1998 levels. The stuff I see on offer - in really bad areas of Bristol - for the same price of £105k leave me realising that the property market have years to fall before I can even think of joining it at my salary which has vaguely moved to the point where I can save a few thousand in an ISA - never mind retirement. There is much about this country which is great - but this house price nonsense is not - for the future generations to survive - we do need to return to what people can realistically afford. When you have people like me in their 40's who cannot afford to pay for a 1 bed flat - then you know something is still wrong.

I've never liked Krusty and Phil - and very rarely managed to watch a whole sitting of location, location let alone relocation, relocation. For that reason alone - I didn't bother watching Kirsty's latest offering advertised on C4 in advance - smacked of marketing "myself" and wanting to be on TV at all costs as a personality - and get paid loads of money during an economic downturn when house prices were dropping beyond her mad recommendations. Just because there was so little on tonight - although I was doing other things whilst watching - workwise - and so didn't feel she warranted my full attention - I was actually stunned and surprised at what she's doing and started to focus - despite being a K&P hater - I actually admire what she has done in this series (although I've only caught the last bit). Okay - there is the downside - she's wealthy enough - and connected enough to get a series out of an economic downturn and bought a property at more than many of us would deem appropriate - and has got builders in to do all the structural work - clearly she has the money to pay for it. But, what has really impressed me deeply about her is what she is trying to do - and in odd way - it's a bit like the ethics this country used to have - and from what she's highlighted - still does have - and also what the people of the USA keep saying (i.e. lastnight on Newsnight) - that actually the economy will only return with innovators like this at grass roots level - and not with government trying to steer it all in various directions including growing the public sector (and I am one of them). Okay some of it is clearly aimed still at the middle-classes - i.e. those that have a bit as opposed to those who have nothing -and I think she still seems to think there is a middle-class and that working class don't exist - although many of us who previously grew-up thinking we were middle-class have had to rethink that - and realise we are working class, But I think seeing this programme and seeing her championing the whole idea of house design - and what you can do - courses you can do - and all those fantastic people who have probably sat for decades now wondering whether what they believe in counts - to see that now coming to prime-time TV - and to see and have recognised the skills that they have - which have taken years to accumulate but in the "bankers" world count for nothing - but in real terms - count for alot now - is refreshing. Isn't this the way that the UK was made great in the first place - it's people that she features - and her pathetic attempts to immitate them - that actually makes you realise how much talent is in the UK - and how so many have found their passions - acted on them - and although for years been denigrated and made probably - very little money - but now - the time is theirs? So how many of you out there who remain on this forum (conscious that many of the old-timers have since left in disgust at some of the threads) - are aware that actually - people like Kirsty championing these causes, is the way to go?

ccc - you've obviously failed to get it as to what this forum and what it is about - it is about serious debate which is why HPC has a fantastic reputation as being a representative of the vote-makers as a whole - and why threads here are monitored by government officials (unofficially) - and often - this site is quoted as the lead - in all of what is going on here both financially - some of those on this site have done breaking news on all that we are going through with no recompense - but have done it for the good of society. so you now declare that you posted on this site for a joke!!!! for what purpose - to get a response - for what end??? Please - now go back to school - this forum is about serious debate - it is moderated - and it is about trying to make society better and if not society - to at least enable other people to question your seriousness in raising issues to this forum. I sincerely hope that you are so young that you can forgive yourself for being so stupid as to make such an admission on this forum - and if not now - don't worry - it will haunt you - and will come back to you, maybe a brief glimpse of the sexist attitude you hold but sometime in your life - you will remember that you accused all women of being worthless of employment above men.

CCC you posted: "Time off the month post IMO" My response clearly states that we are responsible professional women who turn up to work no matter what. In fact we are like you nowadays - since you've been turning up to work uncapable of work due to your hang-overs - for decades and got away with it to the point that you've even brought down financial markets - we've learnt that we can turn-up to work with "time off the month" - and in fact we all do that now despite the pain - given that you males have such a low pain threashold anyways - we turn into work with real pain - but take a few ipbrophen tablets - and though it takes 10 mins to kick in the equivalent of labour pains at work - we continue to work the financial markets - with other pains included. Are you someone from the 1980's? Are you such a sexist monster that you lurk here on the HPC - for years since I joined it was always a great site because it had no such sexist, racist comments. I'm now in two minds whether I report you! Please reply - and if you can - apologise!

Hi Judas Although your name is supicisous - I suggest you do ignore the last post by Ralph****. Please do get your friend to register with Shelter online - they do have the expertise that is required for such a situation - and whilst they won't give him financial advice based on a crystal ball - which none of us have - they will give him sound advice about his current living situation vs the will and probate vs his debts and how he can get through all this so that he can continue to live where he has been living for so long. They will also advise the same as other sensible posts - freeze everything. But you also need to look at the will that your friend's nan left - because it may be that he has to sell the house by the will - but Shelter will be able to understand the probate laws and other laws to enable him to stay there in the short to long term and then deal with all the stuff that follows after. The last thing I want is for your friend to lose his place of residence - whether or not he owns it is immaterial - other lawyers will force him out - particularly at this time - and SHELTER will help him. Please ignore the silly posts before and previous - and get him to get legal advice. Having cared for someone for so many years is an amazing thing to have done but no-one will help him through that grief as few will understand where he's coming from - the best you can do is what you have done - get advice - and feed that back to him. I hope my family have friends like you when I die to give them advice. We didn't when my family and friends died - and used the internet to find it out - but were scared of forums - so got fleeced by lawyers - and we paid thousands of pounds for their advice and later learnt we could have done it on-line through Shelter!!! Please don't make the same mistake.

Jonny the whatever posted: "Back in the real world, the spate of pro women employment law has made them less and less employable. If two candidates have the same qualifications, everyone would employ the man. The wont require a year off maternity leave while keeping their job open for them. Wont demand flexitime to be able to drop off and pick up the kid from day care. Random days off for sniffles. Sorry but i dont think even women would be dumb enough to vote for them again." Well let's go down this line - and say sorry - but I agree to differ. At the moment the short-falls in our team are due TO MEN taking-off time for work to look after their kids!!!!!! And worse still Jonny saying about - females requiring flexible working times - in my experience - even our line manager is pulling the "school run" stint so that he doesn't do normal hours to the point where he actually has it in his diary - and doesn't come in until 10am and leaves at 4am on the dot - even though there's all hell breaking lose - he still says "I've got the school run - I'm going"!!! In fact, it's bizarre that the single women - ranging from 30-45+ are actually holding the fort - particularly as many of the men have left for early retirement - because they were worried that their pension arrangement would change - and haven't been replaced and then 5 in a team of 20 have gone on paternity leave + extended leave. So in effect - the single women are actually holding the team together. Ironically - what happened was a restructuring of the organisation - and as a result - although it's mostly a mail preserve - IT - showed that there were a lot of women out there in the organisation - doing EVERYTHING - not just one job - and when they brought it all under one roof - the women had more skills than the men. However, although local government - the men all got the higher salaries transferred to their new posts - but the women doing the same jobs got down-graded. Yes, a female whistle blower tried to raise the case - but when threatened by HR she would lose her job - stayed put and shut-up. So the rest of stayed put and shut-up. But to this day - it's the women that come in early and stay late - it's the men that keep leaving saying they are "doing the school run", "kiddly sick", working from home because it's half term (when we get a reply to e-mails within 78 hours if we're lucky". And the time taken in phone conversations with their kids - is amazing! One colleague spends at least 1/2 on govt time checking with all the kids they are doing their homework even when his partner (also employed by the govt) is there!!! What's it going to be like when Labour brings in Paternity rights for months on end? I totally agree that parents must be together and fathers have rights etc - but sorry - stop knocking WOMEN as being the cause of all this shit. Get a grip - we are not!!!!! Many of us don't have kids (saving you global warming problems please note!!!) - and we contribute and do your jobs for you as cover - and we are often very well qualified, thank you - on at least the same level as you. So stop knocking us professional women who are doing your jobs.

First off because your friend has debts - and was resident at the home he should contact Shelter online. Get him to send them an e-mail via their online website with his current situation. They have lawyers a plenty there who really do know what they are talking about from my experience - from varied backgrounds. They come back to you within 48 hours of sending your e-mail online - and they will talk to you personally via the phone - at whatever number you give them, if that is what you request after their first reply. And, they will support you ongoing - although possibly not if you go to court although I do know that they will to that extent, if they feel that taking up your cause will then get laws change. In effect - because he's got to do probate (which can take years in my experience) - he needs a lawyers advice on both the debt situation and the situation with being a resident in his Nan's home when it's her estate. He should do it asap - because otherwise other lawyers will close all options - or at worse - Gordon Brown and the State. So I would suggest Shelter is the best place given his circumstances - doesn't matter that he's IT or anything of that nature - there's no point him going down the getting loans etc to get the 10k - because Shelter will be able to help him go through the mindfield that is probate vs how he can stay where he is in the first instance - and then they'll look at helping him with the debt vs income and how he can get the 10k to stay. Tell him not to waste time - really, in my experience this is the only real way to go. There wil be other monies - probably just small - if the probate lawyers move in - and they will try to quickly - and then he will be sunk. What will also count is if the will also states other beneficiaries - and that's why I say he should go to Shelter for legal advice - because it may be that he has no option to do anything other than sell the property - based on that. So your friend should be prepared to have a copy of the will to give these guys - and that may be a problem as it depends on the solicitor who currently read the will and all that stuff. Shelter will help him get a handle on where he's at.