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Posts posted by tombrady

  1. Indeed, and if enough of them take your advice, they can then price your skills out of the market.

    Which is exactly what has happened in the construction industry.

    Plenty of ten day wonders (duration of apprentiship) come to site and will work for way less than the job is worth so our prices are through the floor.

  2. Pretty grim, sorry to hear about all that. Something MUST change or the industry will die, surely...

    I have to say that's one of the most realistic posts I've read for a while on here - I love proper REAL world anecdotals, not these stories about 20 year-olds getting £100k+ doing IT in London or somesuch.

    The industry is on its last legs as far as i can see, some of the firms (even the big ones) are now taking all the scrap from the lads and weighing it in themselves. some lads are already relying on that bit of extra money to top up there wage but now thats gone as well.

    Im past caring about my trade now so i couldnt care less if the industry dies on its ****, im losing work to lads who have been on a ten day course to become a joiner and this also pushes our prices down because the course lads think they are earning a good wage for the work they are doing but are in fact being robbed blind.

    Thats the trouble with my trade, go to a skill centre for ten days and then have your picture taken by an assessor and you are now a joiner.

    lots of these apprentiships being created for the construction industry are just pushing certain trades out of work. sparks and plumbers still do proper time served apprentiships but its mostly a quick course and photo for the other "trades".

    like i said, i should have been a spark :D

  3. This would be a good start and would result in million of people much better off at the expense of relatively v.few

    1. Build another 3-5 million homes pronto. Thus will crash rents in half & pay for itself & some

    2. Increase business rates multiplier from the current 0.4 something to 1

    3. Understand that monopoly doesn't mean one...or two...or any number. It means a sector where it is v.difficult or near impossible to start a new company & compete. The utilities & supermarkets are one such sector. To that end tax those monopoly sectors accordingly

    4. The earth is our natural right if you want to section it off for yourself you must pay accordingly. Increase the oil & gas tax from its current 50% to something closer to 70%. Other mineral extraction is not really taxed which imo is absurd & there needs to be some tax on it.

    That would be a good start

    I agree with all of that except point 4, i was born on a rock hurtling through space but im not allowed to take a piece of disused land to build my shelter on because its not my land. How did the first ever land owners get their land because i know they didnt buy it.

    Which brings up a question i missed in a previous post, how much does it cost to build a house ? I could build a 2 bed terrace for what people are currently saving for their house deposits. cant do that without the land though.

  4. ++++++++1. You are spot on.

    Only yesterday I did a van insurance quote. £1000 for a £2000 Hi-ace. Gonna just get a MPV and rip the seats out. £300 insurance. As you say, I get £220 a week after tax etc.

    I am just out of my 'time' and couldn't out pace an experienced sparks.

    As you say I am still at home, holding on for those vital bits of paper.

    The good thing you have got going for you is that you are a spark, im a joiner so lots of the work we should be doing maintenance wise gets put off till next year whereas a lot of your work is essential upgrades or repairs so cant be put off.

    I should have been a spark :P but thank god im not a bricky because there trade has been hit the hardest with all the new builds stopping.

    A good spark fits his own noggins. remember that and the joiners will be alrite with you ;)

  5. How does a house REALLY cost to build, all in... surely not £200-300k+?

    So these young lads are just stopping working once they've completed their apprenticeships? I would have thought they'd stay on (unless it was awful work) to get more experience and for the hope of better things to come. Perhaps there is no hope. I take it the ones doing that have family homes to go back to! How much longer CAN this go on, that is the question... SO much unemployment, SUCH low wages, SUCH high living costs, SO many people living off benefits with a shrinking pool left to pay for it all. So you plan on staying in this country and getting other work? I will add my obligatory 'have you thought about getting off of this rock?' question...

    The younger lads dont really stand a chance at the moment, when they come out of their time they will either get no extra money or laid off so they just get their qualifications and leave in the hope that one day things might improve.

    If they want to get a better wage in the construction industry they will have to go the sub contractor route and chase the price work, lads with 20 years under their belts have walked away from price work jobs because they can no longer make it pay so a lad fresh out of his time wont stand a chance because they wont be fast enough yet.

    The workloads have increased to joke levels and are still increasing so when a young lad gets his van insurance quote come through at £2.5k to £3.5k its all starting to get a bit much on a wage of £220 to £300 a week.

    Add to this its very common for people to be seriously injured or killed on site then its just not worth it anymore when the wage you get wont put a roof over your head (unless you live in your van, if you can afford to insure it that is).

    The lads i know just stay with their parents and do any private work that comes in which is very little nowadays and come april ill probably be walking away from my job if i have not already been laid off that is. April is when our prices get knocked down without fail plus my van insurance is due and i just about managed to pay it this year so i know i wont stand a chance next year.

    Almost forgot, yes the work is pretty awful nowadays and now winters on its way so we will have to do the same amount of work but in sub zero temperatures, i think a few more lads will end up walking off site and i wouldnt want to be one of the first year apprentices enduring my first winter on site and the added bonus of extra work.

  6. I agree with that. The cost of living is out of hand utterly, for the vast majority of people. So I can easily believe someone on £40K would very easily reach a point of little disposable income. Life is also very much more insecure for most people too. I'm certainly not claiming someone on £40K is rich by any stretch of the imagination. And yet they're probably in the top 10% of earners. There's something very wrong there.

    But it does p*ss me off when people say "I'd probably be better off on the dole." If anyone really thinks people on the dole get it easy and they're hard done by, this is a really good time to try it out and see ;) I'm seeing a constant stream of people through work who are sampling life on the dole for the first time in their lives and are just waking up to the fact that the media guff about what benefit claimants get is just that - guff. It's a pittance, if anything, and they treat you like shit. Anyone who was unemployed 20 years ago is usually shocked by the change too.

    The benefits system is a vital part of the plan: it has to be so utterly horrendous as an experience, so soul destroying and hell that unless you abssolubely can't work and have to take that treatment, you'll take any old shitty, zero hours, low pay job to escape it. The benefits office currently has one of the worst records for stress and mental illness precisely because their staff know exactly what they're going into if they get sick or lose their jobs.

    I have to disagree with the dole pittance, yes its a pittance if you are single but once you get a few kids on the go it is quite profitable. lots on the dole around here are doing a hell of a lot better in life than i am and doing nothing for it.

  7. Same for having a 'career'...!

    I must say, two of my best friends... one works as a mechanic in a brewery and the other as a printer (bibles, mags etc). They get decent dosh, overtime pay (it's like they never moved on from decades ago lol), and they'll probably be in demand for some time to come. Sometimes I wonder who was the smart one! (I'm still rooting for myself...)

    I get the posts about there being a big difference between £20 & £30k, £30 and £40k etc. Though I see it from the angle the OP is taking, also. The biggest con, really, is that it's so skewed at the top (talking about the mega salaries).

    A 10k pay rise would make a massive difference to my life but i wont see that percentage rise for years and years. I cant see how much longer this can go on because people are already walking away from work because it wont pay the bills knowing full well they are getting into debt the longer they stay out of work.

    These are people who bought homes during the boom years ( i chose not to) and also some of the younger lads are coming out of their time and instantly walking away from site (lots get laid off anyway) because they know whatever they earn they will never be able to save a penny towards a house or even afford a basic rental. well they could save a little bit but that will get spent during the next period of no work.

    I heard something about 200k new homes to be built to kick start the construction industry and solve the housing crisis, ill let you all know what wages the big house builders are paying because i know full well you wont be able to put a roof over your head from them.

  8. Scary.......

    I don't buy the solution of getting stock in a company. It just doesn't ring true to me, I can't say why... But I agree about those higher up NOT feeling the pinch and taking home big bucks. Also, interesting to hear from the builders etc on here and how they can swap from one job (being a builder) to supermarket work. And why not! Sometimes I wish I had that freedom, but not so in a 'career' (job with unpaid overtime where you need to work extra to get the job done as stated in contract). As a complete aside... I heard about a contractor today who rakes in £180 an HOUR doing specialist electrical testing (I know as we may be hiring him). That's ~£29k a MONTH doing 8 hours a day, 5 days a week. If they can afford that, I would hope they can give me a little extra lol.

    EDIT - good comment also on middle managers not being able to do the work. All engineers I know that have gone into middle management have made sure that they keep doing technical work as a fallback, and too right.

    There does seem to be a trend of the people actually doing the bread and butter work getting less and less of the pie. Without them nothing would get done at all. Sort of like a pack of cards, take the bottom layer away and it all falls through (hmmm, sounds like a ponzi scheme).

    I wouldnt really call it freedom swapping one job for another, its either put yourself through the ridiculous workload on a daily basis on site or take a supermarket or factory job if you are lucky enough to find one.

    A CAREER in the construction industry is not a wise move anymore, get a trade and you will never be out of work no longer applys.

  9. The solution is that the employees deserve a decent share of the pie. How can it be right that most are running around earning under 40k, yet a few directors can pull down 1 million+ each.

    And then we have the bankers we love so much taking 1 million+ bonuses.

    I cant even be an employee in my line of work. I have to be a sole trader self employed sub contractor who works for a main sub contractor who back hands the main contractor so he can supply the labour to site and consequently take a big cut of my wages.

    Some trades are earning £80 top line for a days work so once you take off tax, national insurance, fuel, insurances, consumables, tool repairs, new tools etc etc over the space of a year ( less christmas and all bank holidays which we dont get paid for) you cannot earn enough to even rent a 1 bed flat. You are doing well if you can manage to get 10/11 months work a year at the moment.

    Some people have already walked off site and gotten factory or supermarket work and some people have simply just walked off site with no job lined up because the workload was taking its toll on them physically.

    My latest director has just bought some brand new fancy jag to add to his fleet of look at me cars so he isnt exactly feeling the pinch.

  10. I finished the third year of my electrical apprenticeship recently, and am still clearing £860 a month (After tax etc) as I have been for two years. I don't get fuel, sick pay, or a van.

    Bad times in the building game at the moment, i also dont get fuel, sick pay, van, tools, consumables or a penny of dole when im laid off. The wages the firms are paying at the moment are a joke, im currently working for the absolute minimum i would take for being on the tools. Next time prices get hit on site (probably april) ill be trying for a factory or supermarket job because im already working on site for the same wage as those jobs pay.

  11. We switched to a contractor model only, got rid of all the employees as nicely as we could, and now don't have to cash flow the gaps in work or payments. It saves us using credit to do so.

    It also means we do less internal investment however, with R & D handled by directors only, and it's been done at the expense of employees.

    It's not a bad thing for us per se, but I'm not sure it's entirely good news for the country. If I'm honest, I don't think the contractors get a good deal as they are definitely not paid make up money to allow for gaps, we just use what would have been PAYE. We're not the only ones - this is increasingly common.

    None of the contractors i work for take anybody on cards in anymore, its now all self employed sub contracting work and some firms are getting rid of their cards in employees by contracting work to subbys so that there isnt enough left for their own lads.

    The fights have already started :lol:

  12. I know someone who works for one of the large banks. It shall remain nameless for the purposes of this thread.

    They recently did some 'back to the floor' or whatever nonsense with people who do the lending for small to medium business. General chat was the businesses they are dealing with just do not WANT to borrow money. They are actively trying but businesses are not interested. They don't want more debt and want to concentrate on paying off what they have. In general.

    Debt revulsion stage arrived for business ? And if so - how long till we get there for individuals..

    This is becoming quite common in the construction industry, a few firms i regulary work for do not borrow money any more. I have worked on sites that suddenly just shut down for a while until the firm recieves a payment from another job they have running.

    Gone are the days when firms would borrow money during a hard spell so they could keep their employees in work.

    Well there is still one big main contractor in my area borrowing money from a certain bank (this bank has also invested heavily in the company), rumours started about a month ago that this main contractor was about to go bust and it is looking more likely by the day. not a very good investment for the bank.

    Could the bank now start calling this firms loans in because it is one of the ones that have been downgraded ? or will this have no effect.

  13. Don't worry, benefits are inflation proofed, and pensions will go up by at least inflation.

    Of course hard work will have to accept a lower share to enable this, so get back to work.

    My full time skilled job currently does not pay enough for me to buy a house and live in it, thousands more are in the same boat as me, if everything is going to start costing more yet again then i cant see there being many working people putting up with this situation much longer.

  14. Everyone needs to do what is good for them and their's. times are going to be too hard very soon to worry about

    "pride or ethics".....AND NO-ONE WILL BLAME YOU!

    Those at the top are scurrying around trying to preserve themselves at your expense, play their game!

    Good to hear, ive pretty much had enough now so if these gypsies dont get evicted i should be in my own home with no mortgage by christmas i reckon :lol:

  15. I guess most working poor do so because of the protestant work ethic - they'd feel bad scrounging.

    However, I have no idea why people imprison themselves in a Maccy D's or supermarket all week for b'all money - you could easily beat the meagre wage, say, cyberpeddling on eBay and spend most of your time chilling out.

    The only reason i still get out of bed to go to work every morning is the work ethic you mention, im perfectly capable of earning a living but its now got to the stage were i work a full week and i still cant afford to house myself, cant even rent except maybe a room as a lodger and im basicaly doing that at my parents anyway. its going to take me another 5 or 6 years of saving every penny i can on top of the 5 years ive already done and then maybe i might be able to buy a basic terrace outright (or maybe not).

    My calculations are based on not missing a days work for the next 5 years which is highly unlikely as i have been laid off 4 times this year already plus my wages have taken a hit over the last two years and just this morning we were hearing rumours off more price drops on site. God knows how long i will keep trying to get a roof over my head because i know a lad who i work with walked off site not long ago because he had had enough of grafting all week long and knowing full well hes not getting anywhere, one of the other lads will be following him pretty soon because i can tell he is about to snap so there is no chance he will get through the winter on site if hes already nearly snapping.

    The reason people go to work everyday is because thats what you are supposed to do and it also gives you a certain sense of pride, from what im starting to see around me this pride also applys to having the pi55 took out of you on a daily basis by bent construction firms, bent housing associations, bent benefit claimants, bent banks and last but not least the bent government. People i know feel like mugs for carrying on working (myself included) so your pride takes a hit everyday you go to work knowing full well you are getting nowhere fast whilst all the dodgy ones i mentioned are doing alright for themselves.

    I think the government like the fact that britain has so many hard working proud people, they might change their minds when all those proud hard working people say **** it ive had enough and just stop working.

    Long story short, most people i know are ready for throwing the towel in.

  16. Land property rights aren't a human right at all, you don't have to convince anyone to give anything to you, you can just build your own shelter on any vacant spot of land you wish.

    Is this true because ive got the money for the materials and me and my mates build houses for a living so i could be in it in a couple of months with their help, im up for trying anything at the moment, underground house, tree house or whatever. I jst dont want to be thrown out of it after spending 25k on materials <_<

  17. Today i recieved a flyer through the door from david wilson homes asking if i would be interested in purchasing a home on the new estate in newton le willows (probably a mile from where the roundabout sign is) via the new government homebuy scheme, 85k for a 1 bed new build hutch that i can afford to buy but cant afford to live in, no thanks. So far ive had 2 of my mates ring me to tell me they have got the flyer as well, one lives in wigan and one in liverpool, seems to be quite a large are to cover with flyers to sell a few 5hitty houses if you ask me. I bet the roundabout sign gets covered with a david wilson home sign pretty soon :)

  18. Unfortunately, people are brainwashed to thinking they can only vote red, blue and yellow. Vote BNP and you are racist. If you vote BNP as a Civil Servant the you'll be booted out of your job. Democracy stinks in this country, we need a revolution (and i'll probably go to jail for saying that now).

    Ill probably be in the next cell to you then because im hearing that word said by more and more people lately. The working man is a proud man and thats what the government wants us to be like so they keep getting their taxes but its got to a point now were me and people i know cant even rent a 1 bed flat never mind buy a house whilst the scum are spitting out kids as fast as they can and earning a fortune for doing absolutely nothing. Pride works both ways, nobody likes to have the pi55 took out of them do they, so at some point i think this country will just grind to a halt, you dont have to riot to be heard, just stop going to work (evrybody) what would happen then. They cant evict everybody in britain for not paying their mortgages can they. I could do with a bit of time off myself anyway :rolleyes:

    Is it really that hard to bring a law in that forbids people who have no way to support a child from having more and more children for profit, Its pretty obvious to me that if that law came in there would be thousands less unwanted children born every year. we have now got the next generation of kids doing exactly what their parents did and having a kid asap to get the freebies asap (after the lessons from mum and dad on how to do it). our government are willingly letting people have children for no other reason than bumping up their benefits, keep calm and carry on :D:D:D:D:D:D:D

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