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Posts posted by byron78

  1. On 29/11/2021 at 07:26, dpg50000 said:

    You neglected to mention they have 2.3 times the land mass too:


    That's great. And how much of France's border meets the sea?

    We, as a nation, really do need to start focussing on what we can do. We really need to get out of the whataboutry habit.

    It's the EU, it's Labour in the 70s, it's France, it's...

    Do you know what? I'm bored of all that now. 

    I suggest anyone who feels like making a point like that - a kick the can point - a "it's not me, it's them!" point - simply try and apply their logic to themselves.

    It is you because you are you. Sick of foreigners coming over here to pick fruit? Great. Then grab a basket. 

    On an internet chat forum at half 9 on a workday? Either we're all retired, or some of you are surprisingly vitriolic, given most of the people I know down the Con Club would label you a lazy B, simply for being here...



  2. 21 minutes ago, onlooker said:

    No, Thatcher was all boom, no bust. That was Major's ERM legacy.

    Barber was a bit simpler than Thatcher. All easy money to try to lift the UK out of the torpor of the Wilson/Callaghan years. It didn't work. Just financed a property boom without fundamentally changing the UK economy.

    Brown had 10 years to hone his work on blowing up the economy, after Major went.

    Thatcher was all boom?

    Not how I remember it. She would have been gone in 83 but for the Falklands. 

    It was multiple quarters of economic contraction and a very poor economic outlook that emboldened the pro-EU Tories in 1990 enough to oust her as well.

    Major benefited from the Iraq war in much the same way Thatcher did the Falklands and Blair and Brown seemed to enjoy the warmonger act as well in the 00s.






  3. 1 hour ago, spyguy said:

    The opinion depends on where and who you were observing him.


    Waaaay before my time.

    Most of my initial political interest in Politics before, say ~1988, tended to be from reading old Giles annuals my Mum used to pick up and jumble sales (she knew/knows I *love* cartoons)

    Basically, let rip, then hit the oil crisis at full speed., being one of the causes of the 3 day week, birthing Thatcherism and all that.

    Barber was the first Pol who bent  the economy out of shape for political gain. Basically,  a proto Brown.

    The fallout of Barber was relatively minor,economically, stroppy unions, end of the idea that oil would form the basis of everything - think nylon, oil based foods etc etc.

    The fall out of Brown is massive as hes destroyed the UK banking system.




    I remember Barber but didn't do politics until Thatcher either.

    He was proto Thatcherite as much as proto Brown. Tax cuts and boom and bust.

    (And I still don't know why you're blaming Brown for changes John Major's government made to the UK banking system in 1996!)


  4. 41 minutes ago, onlooker said:

    If you were as old as you say you are, you would have remembered the Barber Boom and the Fringe Banking Crisis, because without knowing about that, you cannot understand the British property market (it was the first big post war housing boom), and the subsequent near collapse of the British economy. I have my doubts you are who you say you are.


    Edit to add, I first became interested in politics and economics in the late 1960s.

    I honestly don't remember what day of the week it is most days now. But thank you. 

  5. 1 hour ago, shlomo said:

    and you can progress as well, even though we have a class structure i bet we have a lot more self made millionaires than France and Germany combined.


    Hugely doubt that.

    I believe Poland has the most self made millionaires in the EU now.

    Ironically, all the self made millionaires I know started doing what made them rich when there were enormous tax rates in this country. The difference was that we were all competing on the same terms back then I suppose. 

    Outside that, it's all been property wealth this past 40 years, and troughing off state infrastructure sell offs really.


  6. 9 minutes ago, Si1 said:

    Ted Heath's CotEq. Supposed to have been one of the worst chancellors we've ever had. Up there with Gordon Brown. 

    Don't forget that before bringing down the Carlaghan govt, Galtzieri etc, the first people Thatcher brought down were the Tory leadership..Heath never forgave her.

    Poor Barber. He was taken to task for boom and bust! (Very neo-lib policies that caused that actually - tax cuts for the upper class, kicked down to the middle and working classes via VAT, etc etc).

    We've had at least three Tory chancellors worse than Brown since, so I hope Barber's not too unfondly remembered.

    Suspect it's just anti-EU wonk.

  7. 7 minutes ago, Pop321 said:


    But I was careful conceding that point because it speaks a language of justifying arts is via their potential commercial benefits. Whereas for me (a non arts person) the arts justify themselves for making humans more than financial machines.😉 ie even if it’s a cost….it’s a worthwhile one which our best artistic minds can engage.

    I (of course) mock the artistic idea an infantile manner 😆 but in real world have huge admiration for people who are so different from me. 

    Actually, come to think of it, the only people I know who have made real money themselves during my lifetime were in the arts.

    That said, helps to have a famous name or friends and relatives in an industry. Lot of nepotism.

  8. 5 hours ago, thirdwave said:

    For what it's worth, I'm triple jabbed with Pfizer (3rd dose received in early September) yet suffering from a nasty bout of CoviD currently. All typical symptoms for the past 3 days so hardly 'mild'. Several colleagues I know of in a similar situation so I'm deeply sceptical of claims that mRNA vaccines confer 90% + protection against symptomatic infection with Delta. I could be regarded as belonging to 'the other' 10% or that I would have fared a lot worse had I not been vaccinated, but neither of these suppositions can be empirically tested. Given the vaccine appears to be useless in terms of preventing Omicron infections, the choice to be vaccinated becomes a very marginal call the younger you are, mostly definitely the risk/benefits are very finely balanced in anyone younger than 35 IMO

    All the vaccines are primarily focussed on preventing the lung complications, I think.

    I had Covid early unvaxxed and ended up in hospital. I pulled through, but have had it again since (also triple vaxxed now).

    You still feel very poorly, but you don't start drowning in your own lungs. It's not ideal but it's still the preferable.

  9. 2 hours ago, Pop321 said:

    I am a liberal leftie and haven't read this whole thread yet but my thoughts are something in the middle and a bit off thread  

    50% feels too high so those in whom we wish to pay for a further education are those who hopefully will further stretch human knowledge and our endeavour therefore will be the brightest (or potential to be the brightest) and NOT the wealthiest. No fees….rather an expectation that the world and our knowledge will improve  

    Uni is a whole little economy (like so many) set up by governments to make the UK economy artificially bigger than it should be.

    If a degree becomes ‘something to get a job’ then we aren’t stretching the very best minds.

    Now little Ralph with rich parents may not like that but if he doesn’t make the cut they can pay for his degree using this daft student loan thing.

    I am hugely bias to ‘real degrees’ ie science and maths😆 but recognise literature and arts may not be perceived as commercially useful but it is those subjects that separate us from basic animals. So I would include them too. Education is about bettering ourselves and if we should sponsor those who will in some way ‘may’ benefit us all…and let those who fancy 3 years ‘experience’ or want to improve their ‘job prospects’ pay. 

    Yes. Although I should add the arts actually are hugely commercially important to the UK (and culturally). About 40 billion per annum, I think.

  10. 4 hours ago, onlooker said:

    Seeing as most curry houses in the UK use Bangladeshi cooks, finding a good Indian curry is difficult.

    As for Chinese takeaways, you have to be truly desperate to go to those.

    Not so difficult outside of London. 

    I love it all tbh. In this age, being able to order from loads of take aways online when you're old and can't be arsed is amazing.


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