Tuberider

Greece, like Cyprus potenitally sitting on billions worth of gas : http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/10/03/us-greece-gas-idUSBRE8920KF20121003

Give it a few months.

That's good news. But in London and the south east prices have not really moved too much. It's still very expensive to buy a house in any part of the UK where there are jobs (sure, if you want to live in some northern wasteland where there is no work, then prices are probably cheap) I'm not saying prices shouldn't crash, or won't crash. I'm saying they havn't crashed yet as per the predictions of many posters on this forum. Prices might have dipped, or be cheap relative to other assets, but the bottom-of-the-barrel prices we saw during the early nineties are not here yet, and might never be. If you really want a house and can afford one, it might be worth biting the bullet and going ahead.

Just out of interest, why the move to India ?

Not in my experience. I've seen a lot of manufacturing in both Japan and China in my line of work. The Japanese have a different mindset which reflects in the quality of their products. They are exact, specific, conscientous and reliable. Their products were a liittle low quality early on but improved quickly once they learned. Didn't take them long, by the early 80's they were turning out high quality products. The Chinese on the other hand are chancers. Highly unreliable, likely to renege on a deal and do not have the same ethics as the Japs. They tend to squeeze the margins, try to substitute agreed materials for lower quality ones if not checked and cannot be trusted without supervision. They have been manufacturing now for what, two decades or more and their products are not improving in any appreciable way. If you want good quality in China, you have to pay for it. And even then it's not gauranteed. So you might as well go to Japan and save yourself the risk. Or America I suppose. China will not evolve into a high quality manufacturer - they will forever be relegated to making low quality products. Fine during a boom when the consumer will buy lots of unecessary tat, but very bad during a downturn when people look for value and quality for their money. And we will not see a boom like 2002-2008 again for many years I think. Which is why I believe that China's rise is grossly overstated and will not be fully realized.

Oh that's coming as well, right sorry I forgot. Like the house price crash that was supposed to happen 6 years ago that you are all still convinced is just around the corner. Riiiiiight...

There will always be war and rumours of wars. Some people have always preached that the end of the world is just around the corner. You can't think like that, just gotta crack on with life mate.

This crisis will not go on forever. It will pass, one way or the other. People will still need food, shelter, clothing and machines to do stuff for them - and there will be a release of pent-up demand once things reset. These things will all have to be made somewhere. China has proved that it is only good for making low quality tat - they simply do not have the mindset to produce quality goods like the Japanese or the Germans (or the yanks for that matter). It's inside the people. America used to make some great products and they will again. The wheel turns.

Link to PDF Was it Warren Buffet who said, he who shorts America is sure to lose ? Could be the start of a big shift in manufacturing away from China towards the USA again. And where America leads, the west follows... P.s Also saw on the BBC today that the tiddlies are attacking Japanese factories due to the islands dispute. Surely this will cause some Japs companies to rethink their China production strategy?

+1

You forgot to add, that it is ALWAYS a conspiracy by greater powers and we are NEVER responsible !!!!

Greeks are Greeks. I do not make too much distinction between Cyprus and Greece as I feel this is misguided. It is simply an accident of history (and British intransigence) that we never united with the motherland (we wouldn't want to now, though). Yes we have great food, weather, lifestyle, beaches, history etc, but a lot of us are too narrow minded and stunted to accept that there are other countries with just as many positive aspects to them. It's just the way we have been raised, to be passionate about our country and our heritage. We are fanatics, and most of us DO genuinely feel that way. We love it here and feel ripped apart when we have to live abroad or move somewhere else, Greek culture is full of songs about pain and suffering of immigrants living aborad far away from their beloved country. It is also interesting to note that Greeks never like to admit they are wrong, or that they can ever make mistakes. Very frustrating, especially in the workplace. P.s Chrissi Avgi have some good ideas, but they are just too full of hate.

Music, some I guess. Comedy, no. Greeks like more slapstick type stuff, Benny Hill/ Mr Bean are very popular.

Correct, it is not only a fear of financial collapse. We live with the scars of history down here. Coups, civil wars and invasion by aggresive neighbours did not happen all that long ago. You guys don't know just how stable and secure England looks to most people around the world. Middle class Greek Cypriots are definetly game for lower end London properties. I know of many who are buying or planning to buy. There is a fear of further Euro devaluation or outright collapse, and people are keen to protect what savings they may have accumulated during the boom years. Austerity is not here yet but it is coming soon, and people want to move capital out before TSHTF. Add to this the fact that there are many good Greek Cypriot letting agents in London who offer gauranteed rents and full management services and you understand why it's a no-brainer. In Greece, I do not know re the middle strata, I would imagine they are suffering rather a lot right now. But certainly Greek colleagues in my field (shipmanagement/ shipowning) in higher managerial positions like to pick my brains constantly about how they can invest in London property. Areas of interest are usually West and North. Hope that answers the question

Oh I forgot, we consider the health care and education to be top-notch as well.

+1 A lot of posters on this forum are way too close to the issue and cannot see the wider picture. England is a safe, stable democracy with very low levels of corruption, efficient and (fairly) effective system of law and it has no aggresors or danger zones nearby. It doesn't get invaded much, if ever. Not to mention it is disgustingly organized, bureaucracy is minimal and the infrastructure is excellent compared to what we are used to. Compare this to Greece and Cyprus and you begin to see why Greeks consider the UK as a safe haven, a place of sanity and security. (although Cyprus scores a LOT higher than Greece, in fact the mainlanders refer to us as 'the little greece that works')

I'm Greek myself, also own property in London, also looking to puchase more There is a general perception that London is bullet proof. You might lose a little short term as the market is still overvalued and likely to fall further, but long-term the Greeks see it a safe bet. With all the madness going on in the region it is enough just to keep your capital more or less intact. Greeks are obsessed with property, more so than the Brits (yes, it's true). We don't like shares, gold is for indians and arabs and when the turks steam in/ iranians let off a nuke/ illigal immigrants overrun us/ colonels take over again we can always retreat to our safehouses in west and north london until it is safe again. Expect more of it.

How do you know it's going to go down 30% in 15 years ?

We should be OK. Cyprus recently discovered a massive amount of natural gas in our EEZ. The crisis will pass. It's not the end of the world. And no matter what happens to this island, life here is always going to be infinitly better than in the UK. When I think of you lot, working hard trying to afford a little 2-bed terraced on some grey drizzle soaked street, paying all those taxes, having to deal with all those chavs....my flesh turns cold. I do really feel very blessed.

its a good move, agreed one of the very few this crappy commie government has made cyprus really is paradise. we have a fantastic lifestyle out here, decent housing, nice cars, the beach, disposable income and we don't work very hard. it's not difficult to preserve all this, but these morons who are in power now seem intent on destroying it all.

As I predicted a few years ago, Greeks are abandoning the cities and returning to their ancestral villages : http://www.vancouversun.com/business/Greeks+retrace+path+back+land/6751477/story.html http://www.nytimes.com/2012/01/09/world/europe/amid-economic-strife-greeks-look-to-farming-past.html?_r=1&pagewanted=all Greece and Cyprus (and I guess Spain, Italy, Portugal) will fare much better than the UK in a general collapse. We have our ancestral homes to return to, our farms and olive groves. Access to lots of firearms. Strong family ties. We are only one or two generations away from the land, and many of our relatives still live in the countryside and are self-sufficient from smallholdings. I could not imagine what would happen in the UK in a real emergency. Cities full of chavs who do not have the skills, knowledge or fortitude to feed themselves. Not to mention there is nowhere to grow anything.And if you did, the government would tax it away from you. Let them try that here, see how far they get. We will be OK.

hmm.. OK. my point is that people store the value of their labour in cash, property, gold, shares and various other things

it's not guys like this who are to blame for that, it's the liar loans and the 120% LTV's etc etc he made a sensible move, not heavily exposed, so what

That's all well and good, and good for you too. But the guy made a decision he is happy with, he needed a home for his family so he bought. Why are people so quick to trash his move ? P.s I wouldn't like to have a lot of money in the bank. Not right now. Pps And gold is a store of value, just like paper currency or property. What makes you so sure you are safe with that one ?

Good for you. If the post is genuine, then you did the right thing and you will be fine. Lot of bitterness on here, but keep in mind that many posters have wasted almost a decade renting and waiting for prices to come down. It's hard to admit you are wrong when you have invested so much time and energy in a cause.