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Everything posted by kaladorm

  1. There have been some recent developments in case law (though I'm unable to provide an exact link) in the last few weeks I believe, where judges are interpreting the law as being such that penalties for non-protection of deposits aren't applicable once the tenancy has ended. Perhaps someone with access to recent journals can confirm? As for the other point, yes if it's not in the agreement there's no reason I can see for making a 'standard' deduction. It may say there is an expectation that 'you' have the items steam cleaned etc in which case I believe they are then entitled to take it out of the deposit if you haven't?
  2. This has finally prompted the landlords into paying the full amount of the 3x deposit penalty plus all our court fees in pursuing the case
  3. To answer your points: The judgment states: "the claimant shall first apply the proceeds of the sale of the property to pay the costs and expenses of effecting the sale". This includes solicitors feeds so we're going to hand it off and whatever it costs is what it costs. The judgment also states 'The property shall be sold without further reference to the court at a price not less than X unless the figure is changed by a further order of the court". This figure is actually the figure we submitted as part of the application which requires an estimate of the value of the property
  4. I understand the equitable charge on the property. The reason for my confusion was down to the fact that (from my research) we are authorised to change locks etc to gain possession of the property if it's not turned over by the defendants - otherwise if they are uncooperative it would not be possible to enforce the order of sale effectively. In particular the order reads: As to the exact powers this legal term grants us at the moment I don't know. I'm hoping it won't come to that and, if it does, by that point a solicitor will be able to confirm it for me
  5. That pretty much sums it up. No party in the new house as we are under an obligation to sell it (to discharge their mortgage for one) but it seems fitting to save the money towards a house of my own
  6. As far as I understand it it means to essentially give over the property willingly, the court invests in us a power to go in a change locks etc if it's not turned over, essentially gaining control of the property. I don't know who's responsibility it is to update the land registry (if it needs doing). As all costs of sale are discharged before the mortgage etc (nice wording by the courts there) there is little risk to ourselves. If they don't pay up we'll be appointing a solicitor to handle the whole thing and hopefully just have to wait until it's sorted. Fingers crossed they'll just pay up though
  7. My first update in a while - finally had the hearing today for an order for sale. The LL didn't show up and didn't deign to respond to the notices (by post and email) that we were applying for an order for sale. The order was granted and the defendants have been given 28 days from today to either pay the amount owed (including the additional costs of obtaining the order) or to deliver possession of the property to us also from 28 days from today. For those interested the order is of the form of Appendix A here: (long link) http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&cd=1&ved=0CBwQFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.justice.gov.uk%2Fguidance%2Fcourts-and-tribunals%2Fcourts%2Fprocedure-rules%2Fcivil%2Fpdf%2Fpractice_directions%2Fpd_part73.pdf&rct=j&q=order%20for%20sale%20appendix%20a&ei=zeUJTrK_BcOKhQf9vJnYDw&usg=AFQjCNHI_0hhT4bm_xqL_H83QZkBsw84JQ&sig2=80aoDHjsy90WeRojcqmshA&cad=rja
  8. Well we already had the bank account details from the Tenancy Agreement, that's a key part. Everything is pretty much handled by the bank, so the court sends a request to the bank to carry out the searches. The process is as follows; 1. Fill in a third-party debt order form. (N349) http://www.hmcourts-service.gov.uk/courtfinder/forms/n349_0302.pdf 2. Hand it in to the court - it costs £100 3. The court processes the form and serves notice on the third-party (bank) and sends a copy to you. Notice is then served to the defendant 7 days later (at which point the bank has already responded). This is to stop the defendant being able to withdraw funds. 4. Within 7 days of being served the bank replies to you and the court after having carried out a search for all accounts in the defendants name held at that bank. If there is anything in there up to the amount owed it is frozen until the final hearing. The bank may also charge for the searches (this is taken out of the defendants account not the debt). 5. The hearing will make the order final (if successful)
  9. The Third-Party Debt Order against the account details listed in our tenancy agreement has revealed £0 in the account. Disappointing. The court staff couldn't offer advice on attending the hearing (as we intend to be able to claim costs at least) so it looks like we still have to go through with the hearing to make it final, seems a bit pointless Application for an order of sale coming up... As this thread is a useful reference (and for anyone who actually gets this far) it's a Part 8 claim form PRACTICE DIRECTION 73 – CHARGING ORDERS, STOP ORDERS AND STOP NOTICES http://www.justice.gov.uk/civil/procrules_fin/contents/practice_directions/pd_part73.htm Part 8 ALTERNATIVE PROCEDURE FOR CLAIMS http://www.justice.gov.uk/civil/procrules_fin/contents/parts/part08.htm
  10. Good to have an agent in the thread to give a view from the other side . As I mentioned before the agency seemed very pushy about trying to get us in and sign and hand over cash asap - the property is entirely agency managed as well so I wouldn't be surprised if they were passing on the LL fees to us with such a high amount. For future reference for anyone else in the Reading area we found another central location flat with another agency and the total 'fees' was around £210 which is much more reasonable.
  11. You could argue that this part of the requirements has not been complied with as the wrong address details have been submitted, therefore the LL either hasn't complied with the requirement to give you the correct information, or (potentially) the deposit has been protected for a completely different address! I'm not sure about what happens if the ruling is overturned, I believe you would lose your costs. You could of course take separate action to recover those costs (i.e. misinformation forced you to pursue a case that the LL later proved to be unnecessary) but it seems a lot of hassle to recover £225 court fees? . Depending on whether you want to go for the throat on the non-protection (higher risk) or just get your money back, you might be able to offer your landlord a settlement of returned deposit+costs.
  12. A dent in the credit rating certainly as an unpaid judgement is marked on there for (I think) 6 years. having said that they still seem to be in complete contempt of the court proceedings. I forwarded on the final charging order to them (which has now increased the debt by a further £200 in costs) and explained we would be going ahead with an order of sale. They promptly replied and asked to settle, the debt stands at nearly £4.5k and we offered them £3k to settle back in December (prior to the charging order), they counter offered £1k which we rejected. Since obtaining the charging order we have since offered them the 'same' £3k to settle, despite the increased debt, and they in response have offered the same £1k in addition to threats of court action, investigations from inland revenue (lol?) and whatnot. I promptly told them that the offer was unacceptable and we'll be going ahead with an order of sale. Oh I should note that the LL have threatened us with (paraphrased) 'if we don't settle they'll take us to court for damage to the property and we will end up paying their costs and it will cost us more than what we owe them'. I have kept a copy of the email stating damages were priced at £400 - still extortionate but nothing compared to the amount now owed. As we have offered 'more' than that amount in settlement (note marked "without prejudice except as to costs" to prevent it being used in court without our permission) then, if they make good on their threats, they have unnecessarily increased the costs of proceedings and we shouldn't be liable for their costs . So watch this space over the next few months and we'll see if an order of sale goes through.
  13. Oh I know Romans very well, having rented another place through them in Basingstoke (see my other thread on our deposit not being stored in a TDS) .
  14. I've not paid them anything yet. To the disappointment of my GF I don't think I will be paying them anything either. I have a healthy degree of cynicism to agents (and perhaps landlords in general), particularly now if you read my other thread . Having said that the tenancy contract was unavailable before we handed over the holding fee (alarm bell 1), a tenancy agreement was sent over however the bits to sign are different to the bits in the small print below: notably that the signed agreement says contents insurance is 'required' but the small print says advisable, also it says the deposit will be paid into a separate bank account and not into a TDS (major alarm bell 2). It may just be an out of date contract, and sadly I know that if I back away from it some other poor mug will get stuck with them, but at the very least I can protect myself and make a stand against crappy agents
  15. Thanks guys, I figured 6 weeks deposit was about right, the real bit that had me raising a question mark was the fees and then additional check-in. Seems to me like the agency are passing on stuff I would expect the landlord to be paying Just to give you an idea on the area this is in Reading central. (Also on an unrelated note, I read that I have to provide contents insurance for my landlords posessions. This was the same as my last rental but still the concept of it doesn't feel right to me Ahhh renting may suck but buyings no better. Travelling folk seem to have the right idea...)
  16. I'd like urgent replies if possible as, of course, "there is a lot of interest in the house at the moment" (think I know a used car sales trick when I see one hehe) I have a very simple question I wanted to put out to the community as I'm looking at moving into a new place with my girlfriend shortly. Simply: How much of an admin fee is too much? I've been given the following quote for moving in: That makes the total payable (on a rent of £850/month) - 2698.95. Over triple a months rent. We've negotiated with them on the admin fee as that part seems excessive, they've agreed to knock it down from 435.95 to 360, however it still seems to much to me. Included with the check in fee as well it's well over 50% of a months rent that we won't be seeing again. So, any thoughts? Is this normal nowadays or should we steer clear of this agency?
  17. Yes I have, the land registry docs were necessary for applying for the charging order. The only other 'interest' in the property is the bank who the mortgage is with. A judge won't allow an order of sale if there is negative equity in the property - part of applying for an order of sale is to provide an estimate of the value of the property. As far as the claimant being liable for any defendants shortfall I'm not sure if that is the case, the wording of an order is as follows: Of course it's open to interpretation but it only specifies applying the proceeds of sale to discharging any other charges
  18. I'm hoping it won't go that far and that this, finally, will cause them to wake up and realise they can't keep avoiding it. I also don't believe that a judge would enforce the order of sale (with 1 months notice before bailiffs change locks) effective immediately. I suspect that a judge would find that the order of sale is effective once the current tenants contract ends, which we would have no objections to. As for repossessing the landlords current home, they are out of the country and it would require a lot more legal wrangling to obtain land registry documents, out of jurisdiction notices etc etc.
  19. The hearing was successful (with a no-show on their part). The charging order was made final including costs for the original application, land registry updates and the land registry office copy. I don't believe the defendants know about the result yet, as notice was served to them at the estate agents (named on the contract as the address to serve notice to) who returned the documents stating they had nothing to do with it. The defendants have also said that we will be waiting a long time for our money as they have no plans to sell the house and will continue to rent it out. Next step is to apply for an order of sale using the part 8 claim form
  20. Hearing for our application for a charging order is on the 11th January 2011....
  21. Here I've copied the judgement on the defendants appeal (which was centered on the fact that the landlords agents didn't tell them about the DPS scheme, and that in our tenancy agreement it said we had to contact them for a reference number so it was our fault...lol):
  22. Nothing new to report atm I'm afraid, it's slow going. Charging order is on it's way, I've also received details of a laughable appeal - I'm expecting a letter any day now saying it's been rejected . Interesting thing , they're still trying to claim that by not contacting them to get confirmation of the deposit being lodged we broke the tenancy agreement and so it's our fault they didn't lodge it
  23. I think I'm able to clarify it a little further. I think you're correct in as far as interest cannot be claimed 'after' the charging order has been made (so you don't get 10 years interest if they don't sell for ages), however you can claim additional interest from the date of the judgement to the charging order being made. Does seem a shame that it doesn't at least rise with inflation, especially for those that will just keep their home for the next 30 years or so
  24. I'm not sure about this, the charging order form to fill in says: Judgment debt The judgment or order required the judgment debtor to pay £ (including any costs and interest). The amount now owing is £ [which includes further interest payable on the judgment debt].
  25. Interesting idea, I had considered the different types of enforcement and figured that a charging order would be the way to go (suggested by a relative of mine, a solicitor and county court judge). Our case could also have been complicated by the ridiculous damages charges, that's why I left it completely out of the court proceedings and only brought the claim up on the grounds of non-protection of the deposit. I figured, well if they want to counterclaim and charge us £700 for damages (the original ridiculous amount) then we'll agree to pay for it out of the £3900 bonus we've just won and it'll all be settled For anyone following this thread, it's now been 30 days and still no payment. I've informed the landlord it will be registered as unsatisfied and remain on their credit register for 6 years. I had a voicemail from her shortly after saying she was planning to appeal etc etc. She received a final email from me saying that I wasn't prepared to discuss it any further, the courts had decided and regardless of an appeal the judgement must be paid, and she can send payment to the appropriate address. The courts informed me that though they lodged the appeal a week or so ago it's still not been paid for, but they're holding it as lodged (but not processed) until around the 22nd Sept when these people are back in the country. I'm a little miffed that the courts don't seem to be following their own procedure, such as allowing evidence in the original hearing sent after 14 days had passed and holding an appeal for this length of time (6 weeks after the order was made)... Whilst at the hearing as well the judge agreed to the initial claim of deposit + 3xpenalty + court fees + costs. However the CCJ sent out only had deposit + penalty. I need to double check whether this has gone through properly as the longer they delay the longer interest (should be) mounting up. If we get a charging order and they sell the house in say X years time, interest should still be accumulating on the judgement.
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