mijas99
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Posts posted by mijas99
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You only have to pay for health if you are not working legally in Spain. If you have a legal contract and therefore are making social security contributions then the health service is free and excellent. It is at least as good as the NHS, probably better
I have been working remotely with an internet connection from all over Spain since I was 27 - 7 years ago. Still working off my London contacts. Saved a lot of money on the way, got married and have children.
The lifestyle here is absolutely incredible on a London salary. I can't believe that more people don't do this!
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And no mention of house prices from skim reading.
Depends on the country
In Spain, it has nothing to do with house prices and everything to do with a lack of jobs
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I don't think everything is as merry in Europe as you make out.
I didn't say things are merry in Spain. I said people are not against the Euro
There are weekly protests in most of the Spanish cities. Every week people are on the streets protesting (99.9% peacefully, I have even taken by little kids to them), mainly against the cuts to health and education, but also against the corrupt politicians and the political system in general
But nobody is even discussing the Euro. It is completely irrelevant to Spain's problems as far as Spaniards are concerned
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Cant believe how much anti euro propaganda you people put up with.
Yes, there is absolutely no desire to get rid of the Euro here in Spain. Spaniards blame their own politicians for the economic crisis, mainly, and the capitalist system second, but not Europe and definitely not the Euro
The only country that wants to leave the Euro is the UK, and they were never in it
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Even though fewer Germans own their own homes the property they live in still exists - then possibly to balance it Germans will also have pensions and savings etc. and maybe more secure jobs and income streams.
AEP might have done an analysis of the different proportions in the two populations owning their own homes alongside current property valuations plus mortgage debt, pensions and savings etc and it would have been interesting to see some figures. Too often journalists make claims without justification.
The claim is based on the "median" i.e. average German/Italian/Spaniard, not the mean
The average German isnt very wealthy actually. Wages for non-professionals are very low, especially in the East. Tens of millions of people have 1, 2 or 3 "mini-jobs" that pay 500 euros per month for 20 hours per week. Meaning they can never buy a property. The professional class in Germany get paid very well, and own all the property, but they are not the "median" German
Spanish and Italian household economics aren't so devisive, wages are low for almost everyone relatively, and so are the spread of assets
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It would have been interesting if he'd published how those figures were arrived at because they don't ring true.
That is unless debt is being counted as wealth.
Italy has never seemed to be in the same economic ball park as Germany - at least since WW2.
Certainly not for the majority of their people although since their involvement in europe likely they've gone up the ranks a bit but not to the extent suggested by those figures.
Italy is well below Germany in terms of GDP as well as GDP/Capita.
I've seen similar figures for Spain to with the "median" Spaniard having around Euro 150k wealth compared to only about 50k in Germany
It is because the majority of German' rent so have few assets
The majority of Spaniards (85%) own their own home (or have a mortgage on one). But your average Spanish family doesnt own only one home, they may have one, two or three properties in the village of their grandparents, or a holiday flat on the Costas or a flat granny used to live in, in the city. And no mortgages on any of them
But as there is no property market because everybody is still asking ridiculous amounts of money for these properties, then there is no liquidity and the actual asset value in questionable. The cheap properties the banks are offering are those that have actually foreclosed, many from immigrants who had no family support or new developments that couldnt find a buyer in the first place. It is much cheaper to buy a new flat now than an cr*ppy 1950s flat, although you will be located on the edges of the city/village as all the prime location has been built on
I live in a Spanish city and rather than fork out nearly half a million euros for a flat that hasnt been refurbished since the 70s, we are moving to the flat my wife grew up in, which has been sat empty since her parents retired back in the country. It has been up for sale for 3 years but has not had even one viewing. So we have spent a bit of money to do it up and are going to live rent and mortgage free!
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They could not understand why someone earning a decent salary would not want to spend most of it on the car. I think the same sort of peer pressure exists with the old ladies in fur coats - they will all be in the haidresser every Saturday morning getting their hair rinsed or whatever, ready to show it off in church the next day. Image is everything.
Yes there is quite a bit of that. People dress very well and have to look smart when they go "de paseo" with their families. It gives the impression that they are very well off, when in monetry terms they probably are not, although the extended family probably has a bunch of property assets which act as their security blanket.
I have to say that the salaried professionals behave very different to the black market workers. They are two different classes if you like
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Spain is constitutionally structured so that anyone with any connections to local government has been able to write blank cheques. There are stories going round of small villages with a few hundred inhabitants who have managed to build enormous olympic sized leisure centres. Each villager is left with enormous debt but the mayor's mates who were contracted to build it made a fortune. Similar story with all these empty urbansizations in the middle of nowhere. Councils were able to raise debt through corrupt banks and build stuff that was never going to be sold. The banks sold the debt on through securitization, paid themselves handsomely for being so clever, the developer made a fortune, and so did the council from the sale of the land. Of course you'd find the same few people sitting on the board of both the bank, the council and the developer. A massive scam. It worked.
Yes that is true, but didnt really happen here in the Asturias and most of the North. It doesnt account for why so many people here seem so well off
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Very different place. They won't waste money on repairing cars either. If they collide on a roundabout and wreck it down the side (compulsory it seems)...it'll be that way for the next 20 years (cars don't rust either so full of old wrecks with no rust).
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There is a bit of a North South divide here
Andalucian cars are a disaster, but in the North the cars are immaculate. Although, again, people tend to buy a car new and then drive it for the next 10-15 years and then perhaps give it to a son/daughter or a nephew etc. The second hand car market is por value for money as a result
One difference is you dont see many top of the range flat screen TVs in the houses you visit, even if the family is well off. Plenty in the shops though!
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Timing is all important in Spain. If you go on a public holiday then the bars and restaurants will be heaving
Still, things are nowhere near as bad as they should be given a 27.2% unemployment rate, despite a 5 year month on month reduction in consumer spending
I live in Oviedo, a relatively wealthy Northern town. A decent 3 bed flat here costs 300-500k and that is even with a 30% reduction, they were even more expensive a few years ago
Salaries are pretty low, maybe 2k euros per month average, but people have lots of assets as nobody ever sells anything. So a middle class family may have a house in the village, a flat (or 2 or 3) in the city and a flat/chalet by the beach. As nobody is ever in a rush to sell then effectively there is no property market, you have to pay what the sellers ask or go and live in a cheaper new build on the edge of the city. Familes share everything, kids never get kicked out or pay rent as in the UK, so they may live in the great grandparents flat that is "worth" hundreds of thousands for free. State pensions here are very generous, up to 2.5k per month, and grandparents subsidise their children and grandchildren and normally do most the childcare as well
Things here are a factor of n more prosperous and people much wealthier than in the Northern English town I grew up in, it is incredible. Old ladies walk around in 1000 euro fur coats and the kids are dressed in outfits from the many independent clothes shops costing 100s of euros. After so many years here, I am still trying to work out how the economy works and why people "appear" to be so wealthy
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One of my clients is a market research company based in China. They provide market research reports on the Chinese market for European and American brands, in English.
10 years ago when I started, these reports would have managed and written in London. They deliver these projects at roughly half the price - and from what I have seen, with no deteriation in quality. In fact the quality is better, especially because the Chinese 20-somethings who write these reports can add all the cutural insight.
Anyway, the point is, the Chinese dont only make stuff, they are also turning into a knowledge enconomy.
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what were the maintenance and ground rent costs?
opportunity cost on your deposit?
I *loathe* flippant comments from people who claim to do the maths but clearly haven't
It wasnt a flippant comment, believe me I do the maths
We've had the property 7 years, lived in it the first 3.5 years, been renting it out since then as we escaped left the country, had tenants the whole period.
Ground rent/service charge is £1k per year. Deposit was 10%, Mortgage has averaged around £1100 per month. We rent it out for £1350 per month which covers the mortgage, estate agents fees and service charge. Repairs have been averaging £300 per year. Works fine for me, so far we've paid off over £50k of the mortgage and put very little money into it
We were lucky that we bought in 2003 when the numbers just about made sense. Since then the returns have got much worse.
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Hello HPC'ers,
I would be a 1ST TIME BUYER, buying at low end of a wealthy / saught after area near London.
My main thought is that I would be shielding myself from NEG Equity by buying such an area, instead of buying
in areas that are dropping & dont tick all our boxes.
Also we want to move there because of the good schools, cheap childcare & the facilities i.e parks, classes, scenery & transport. It ticks all the boxes for us
Whats your thoughts
That was my thinking when I bought in Putney in 2003, I was expecting house prices to crash back then as they were ridiculously high. Still the mortgage payments were less than the rent so it made sense to buy.
So I chose a desirable 1 bed flat in a good street in Putney rather than a 2 or 3 bed in a not so nice place in London. My thinking was that property in nice areas hold their prices better because wealthy people arent so reliant on credit.
I looked at past prices too. We bought for £235k in 2003. The flat sold for £191k in 1999 and £140k in 1993, so I though that was a steady progression and not entirely unreasonable.
I would say you should be looking to buy something in a good part of London at 2005 prices now.
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Do you know if they have to hold a referendum to change the constitiution?
This is the great impediment to EZ attempts to protect itself. States have to do the budgetary thing, but then come the giant treaties necessitating constitutional change. Takes yeeeears. They don't have that time.
No need for a referendum, the house can pass it, they are having two meetings on 31 Aug and 2 Sep (I think). If 60% of the house vote for it then the amendment is passed, no need to even go to the senate.
So, the change will take less than 2 weeks to take effect and will be in place well before the general elections in November
I should add that this is the first amendment to the Spanish constitution since it was founded 30 years ago
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A bit like UK parties then (constantly in each others faces and sniping at each other for appearances sake but no real opposition worth mentioning) and when they get into power enact policies almost indistinguishable from each other.
There are so few British footballers left they can barely put up a team for England.
The IU i.e. the Spanish communist party were against the policy
There are some serious left-wing elements to Spanish politics and actually even more so amongst Spanish youth. The Republican spirit is still strong among a large part of society. The Indignados movement (bless them) are based on a spirit of Spanish anarchy which doesnt mean going round robbing Nike trainers, but rejects institutionalism and gives the power back to the people.
For me, this is the future and I hope when the current system goes bust, the young Spanish people will repopulate their grandparents villages and create a series of local economies run by the people for the people without a corrupt well paid mayor at the head.
Being blatently fascist is still a taboo after Franco, but you only need to put two and two together to realise that the PP are fascists in not so cunning disguises. They are so fascist they actively support policies that come out of the US
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Surprising they can act independently of the eu regarding debt these days.
They've probably been instructed to do it but they're trying tp pretend they have a vestige of independence.
Sums it all up - sounds like no true opposition, like the UK as well.
Not quite. The PSOE and PP are constantly in each others faces like Barcelona and Madrid after a tackle from Pepe or Marcelo.Which is quite apt. The PSOE act holier than thou and do lots of tippy tappying without actually ever doing anything, while PP claim the support of Franco and the pope while at the same time being entirely corrupt and saying there is a global conspiracy against them
This is the only poilicy I've ever seen them agree on, which makes me think, like you, that UEFA, sorrym the EU are forcing their hand.
But let's not forget that Spain's debt is lower as a % of GDP than the UK's and US's. And British footballers are crap
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Euro crisis is far from over – what the experts are sayingMoody's cut Spain's debt rating on Thursday, pushing the euro lower and deepening the sense of crisis in the currency bloc on the eve of a crucial summit.
I've lived in Spain for many years and I can confirm that yes there are 100,000s of empty recently built properties. However, for the average Spaniard there is little impact, as these places are either on the Costas and been built for foreigners or Spanish 2nd home owners, or big empty mini-cities built in the near-desert close to Madrid (only 1 or 2 of these) where few people bought. Where most Spaniards actually live property is probably 10-20% down on peak prices, so similar to the UK. On the foreign parts of the Costas property values are down at least 50%, this is where the real bubble was.
As far as exposure to bank debt, well the big multinational Spanish banks like Santander and BBVA have a diverse portfolio across the world, I'm pretty sure they can absorb the property losses from Spain that will be coming onto their books. The Cajas are the ones in big trouble, the government has passed some laws recently to force vulnerable Cajas to merge, but I cant see how some superficial restructuring will change anything.
One big Q I have, with the British press talking about the weakness of the Euro all the time (and it does seem to be ONLY the British press doing this), then how come the Euro is so strong against the pound sterling and dollar? Maybe I need an economics lesson?
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In fact I would go further and say that most of the Costas are totally detached from the main Spanish Towns and Cities, however when it comes to Brits owning Spanish property, I would guess the vast majority would be on the Costas or the islands, hence a major exposure to a lot of future problems
That's the key. One could even say that the Brits in Spain are more exposed to the Spanish housing market problems than the Spanish!
The average British expat ghetto is placed in the middle of nowhere where there are next to no jobs and few services and shops. This means the properties only appeal to other British expats and the odd expat Northern European.
In these places I'd say property prices have halved over the past 5 years and still have a way to go.
However, in the major cities, Barcelona, Madrid etc, prices are maybe 10-20% down i.e. this reflects what the official government figures say.
The British people in Spain have never actually lived in Spain, they have a seperate market for everything, they go to different restaurants, supermarkets, shops, schools, everything. This culture has actually left themselves more exposed. They have a limited market to sell to and are reliant on people who have equity from their British property. Well, tough luck I am afraid, times have changed!
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The question I've asked myself since I've been living in Spain the past 3 years, is how can unemployment more than double, from 9% to 20% and there be no social unrest (well, very little).
Having asked around a bit, I think it is because firstly, the government has brought it an emergency bill guarenteeing 450 euros a month for every family in the country (it sounds very little but previously there was no minimum income guarentee).
But more importantly, there is a lot of flexible cash in hand work in Spain. An incredibly large amount of it! There are a lot of family businesses especially in the services sector and they employ friends and family on a casual basis without declaring it.
So could this account for the descrepancy? A large proportion of the unemployed will still be contributing to the economy, but unofficially so.
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An interesting video about the Spainish economic nightmare and how property speculation has destroyed them.
Take a look in three parts
The guy who made that video throughout keeps making generalisations about Spain that only apply the very cr*ppiest worst bits, like the part he decided to live in.
The infrastructure is rubbish because the parts of the Valencia and Alicante provinces where there are these huge urbanisations have no jobs - and they never have had any. They built these places in the middle of nowhere. So no Spanish people want to live there. It is the expat ghettos that are suffering the most because foreigners were stupid enough to live in these places with no infrastructure and nothing going on.
There are city developments that are struggling, but that is a different story, such as all the luxury flats in Valencia they can't sell because they ask half a million euros for a 2 bed flat or the awful satellite towns they built 30km from Madrid, where now only the poorest immigrants live paying peppercorn rent.
I guess what I am trying to say is the established parts of Spain are continuing on just like they always have done. It is the places where developers and politicians tried to make a quick euro by selling bad quality buildings in bad locations to naive foreigners that are failing badly.
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http://spain.othercountries.com/pages/articles/index.asp?page=social-security
They claim around 750 euros a months...Don't know about HB though...
The benefits you get in Spain depend on what you have paid into the system. You need to have worked for 6 months to get any unemployment benefit at all. If you have around 4 years of contributions you get around 1000 euros a month for 2 years, but then it runs out and you get nothing. The government are handing out an emergency rate of 450 euros per month to families with no income at the moment because unemployment is so high. There is no housing benefit, but there are subsidised low rent housing if you earn very little.
I actually prefer the Spanish sytem to the UK one. You dont see many teenage mums here because they get no handouts, you also dont see anyone hungry even though some people have zero income and are entitled to nothing. Spaniards rely on their extended family a lot more, so the well-off uncle may give money to their nephews during hard times etc. Also, there is lots of temporary work in tourism and farming where they people work cash in hand for a few months.
Being a Brit who married into Spain if you like, then I think Spaniards ARE happier than the Brits. There is much less cynicism around and they dont believe they are owed anything for being Spanish, like the Brits do. Lots of families have suffered over the past few years, but the stupid mortgages were often taken out on second home investments. Good thing about Spaniards is they never sell anything! For example, my OH's family have inherited old flats and houses from their grandparents and great grandparents all over the country, so there is free (although not very comfortable) housing if ever there was a huge crash and we needed to grow our own food
. Thing is they are in the villages and not where the jobs are! That is usual in so many families. -
There are three reasons that I can see
1. The US is a big country and built lots of new housing in areas where there werent the jobs to back up the mortgages
2. The US were a lot more carefree in handing out mortgages to people who couldnt afford them
3. The US unemployment rate is higher than in the UK. Although the official figures are 10%, it is more like 18% once you include those that have given up going to the employment office. That's getting towards the same level of Spain!
I know some areas of the US have crashed dramatically e.g. Florida, Phoenix, Detroit, parts of California, but anyone know how house prices are holding up in Premium areas where the job market is better e.g. New York?
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Yes, it really works for Spain. NOT. There's an example of a dead economy if ever I saw one.
I'm not sure you can blame Spain's economic collapse on the train system. I lay that blame very clearly on the construction boom and political corruption.
The AVE trains have generally been a big success, certainly for the Madrid Barcelona and Madrid Sevilla links. Although politicians got involved such as the Mayor of Madrid who made sure a line that cost hundreds of millions got built to Guadalajara, her home town! There are currently less than 50 people using this line each day! Every crappy little town wants an AVE line and pressurise their local politicians to lobby for it, hopefully the economic situation will put a stop to it.
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Is there any reason why a UK degree is not considered the same as a French one? Is the UK course inferior or is it more the French ensuring that there jobs go to French nationals (I'm assuming that you nor your daughter are French). This would appear a very good way to side step EU employment laws, sorry your degree is crap you should have got a French one.
In Spain a lot of companies will ask that your degree gets certified that it is as good as a Spanish equivalent. Unfortunately most of the time the UK degree fails because the Spanish regulators have strict measures that mean you need to have done specific modules that may not have been covered in the UK degree. So a student with a UK degree must go to a Spanish uni to top up on the modules that their degree didnt contain (a Spanish degree is 5 years, compared to 3 years in the UK).
For anyone who wants to get a graduate job in Spain with a UK degree the best option is to work for 3-4 yeards in the UK first, then to appy to Spanish jobs, then they will take your experience as the main qualification rather than the degree.
Of course, there are no such problems for a Spanish graduate who wants to get a job in the UK.
Sun Sets On Spanish Dreams As 90,000 Britons Leave Spain
in House prices and the economy
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No, you can register self-employed (like I do) if you have many clients. If you have only one client e.g. your UK employer, then you can draw up a very simple TRADE contract which basically says that you are a freelancer working on a contract basis and so you are responsible for your own social security contributions