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Everything posted by Frugal Git
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Ahhhh - I see! My apologies for misunderstanding Amazon's grand scheme. Those misleading Linus Tech Tips promo videos, the fawning press releases extolling their "groundbreaking" automated stores – all an elaborate attempt to convince themselves they would get there eventually, but let’s fake it till we make it 👍 And of course, blaming their failed project on readily exploitable workers is much more logical than facing the shortcomings around their ML models being more difficult to train than the Seattleites had envisaged. If only Amazon had tapped into the mythical "master engineer caste" instead of those pesky "glorified slaves," perhaps their technology wouldn't have crumbled under the sheer weight of its own ambition. Let this be a lesson to us all!
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Thank you for bringing this critical insight to light. In a story about corporate deception around the misrepresentation of their use of technology, and the societal consequences of automation, you've skilfully managed to identify the true culprit: “Remote Indian workers" and their ability to "crater" efficiency. 👍
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The percentage of population in cities not uk born
Frugal Git replied to frederico's topic in House prices and the economy
Agree on all points 👍 thanks for the reply. -
The percentage of population in cities not uk born
Frugal Git replied to frederico's topic in House prices and the economy
Actually, they owned a house in Romania already and have now bought a place in London 🤷🏻♀️ had to pay an eye watering amount in extra stamp duty as the place in Romania counts for multiple property ownership. I told them I think they are mad but when they earn that much I guess it’s no big deal for them. -
The percentage of population in cities not uk born
Frugal Git replied to frederico's topic in House prices and the economy
Agreed, but even with all thst, the reality in this case is an imperial graduate who has spent 4 years and likely got into significant debt has come out into a world and is saying 'I'll work for 20k'. That is just appalling, portfolio or no portfolio. What the hell was the degree worth? -
The percentage of population in cities not uk born
Frugal Git replied to frederico's topic in House prices and the economy
I feel you've missed the point of my anecdote about my Romanian friend. I wasn't suggesting that all Romanians are high earners, any more than your sarcastic retort implies that all Scottish people are Oxbridge-educated investment bankers. My point was simply that immigrants, including those from Romania, are diverse individuals. Dismissing positive examples as mere anecdotes while relying on negative stereotypes is a double standard. Regarding cultural alignment, I agree that there is significant diversity within British culture itself. The football fan and the theatregoer may seem worlds apart, but they are both threads in the rich tapestry that makes up modern Britain. By the same token, immigrants from different European countries can and do integrate into this diverse cultural landscape in various ways. Reducing complex cultures to monolithic stereotypes and then ranking them by their supposed compatibility with the UK is reductive. Your claim that you weren't really talking about working culture when you made your original comment about Romania rings a bit hollow. If arts, sports, humour, and language are all part of a country's culture, as you acknowledge, then surely economic contributions and working habits are too. You can't dismiss the relevance of my point about my Romanian friend's work ethic and then claim that work ethic wasn't really what you meant by cultural alignment. As for my comment about the UK's declining appeal to immigrants, I stand by it. If highly educated graduates are struggling to find work that pays a living wage, that's a sign of a deeper structural issue in our economy and society. Dismissing this as "no comfort" is a deflection, not an engagement with the substance of the problem. I agree that the UK's problems won't be solved by immigration alone. We absolutely need to invest in our own workforce, tackle skills shortages, and address the structural issues holding our economy back. But framing this as an either/or choice between immigration and domestic development is a false dichotomy. Beyond the Ponzi aspects - which I don't disagree with - immigrants have brought valuable skills, ideas, and dynamism to our economy. It's a complement to domestic investment, not a substitute for it. The rose-tinted nostalgia for a time when the UK staffed its own hospitals and picked its own fruit overlooks the many ways our country has changed in recent decades. The world has become more interconnected, our economy has shifted towards services, and our demographics have evolved. We can't turn back the clock, but we can find ways to adapt and thrive in this new reality. Finally, while I agree that a strong work ethic is important, simply calling for a "restoration" of work ethic oversimplifies the issue. The challenges facing our workforce today are not just about individual attitudes, but about the structural changes in our economy, the uneven distribution of opportunity, and the changing nature of work itself. Tackling these issues will require a comprehensive, forward-looking approach, not just a return to the values of the past. -
The percentage of population in cities not uk born
Frugal Git replied to frederico's topic in House prices and the economy
100% agree 👍 the number of people I know in roles that don’t suit them, that they went into for completely the wrong reasons is not only awful for productivity, it’s just sad for them on their individual personal level. -
The percentage of population in cities not uk born
Frugal Git replied to frederico's topic in House prices and the economy
Perhaps, but it’s also indicative of something. The fact this poor sap has convinced themselves they are willing to work for £20k (less than the new minimum wage, and less than I was paid in the year 2000 as a fresh grad in the same field) is a stunning indictment of how well, or not, the UK is doing today. Maybe the best advice for that graduate would be to move to India and market himself as a forward thinker who is skating to where the puck is going, given many engineers there are getting Uk salaries or better. -
The percentage of population in cities not uk born
Frugal Git replied to frederico's topic in House prices and the economy
Of course this is highly anecdotal, but it’s amusing to me, because the highest paid PAYE worker I have a close personal relationship with is Romanian. They likely pay more in tax than you, me, and two other workers that earn enough to have lost their personal allowance. Indeed, their tax receipts are probably equivalent to the benefits of 20 families! They are the hardest working, most driven person I’ve ever met. And perhaps you’re right - because you know what they say about the UK? “It’s so frustrating - hardly anyone here *actually* wants to work.” And they are not wrong. And now to flip things on the head. Because when people *do* want to work - see the image below from a Reddit thread 🤦♀️ I really wouldn’t worry about immigration, or the population. The UK is handling that just fine. I don’t think many people with any common sense are going to want to stay here, or come here much longer - if this imperial graduate is any indicator of the trajectory. -
Honestly - it's almost the opposie. the work life balance hasn't altered at all. The higher you're paid, the more respected you are, the more agency you have to dictate your terms etc etc. Probably one of the best ever posters on here @wish I could afford one, used to post exactly how he achieved financial independence by being exactly that type of person. He did not wait for the 'market rate' to adjust to what his value was. His example was what I ended up following.
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I hear you, but relying on the market to self-correct is a passive move and “Market rate" is just code for "let's see how low you'll go." Negotiate, yes, but what if the starting point itself is an insult? Why not go ahead and challenge that? If standing firm on my value means I'm a pauper, but remembered for having a backbone, so be it. Better that than being remembered for how easily I rolled over. It's not just about a job; it's about setting a standard. If that ruffles feathers, maybe they needed ruffling. When a system consistently undervalues skilled labor, more decisive actions—what some might perceive as a "tantrum" - becomes a powerful form of communication. It's not merely about expressing dissatisfaction; it's about a refusal to participate in a system that fails to recognise value appropriately. Hell, maybe the interviewer themselves might realise they are getting screwed. It would be worth it for that alone.
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This is a question of integrity. For meaningful change to occur in labor valuation and workplace equity, individuals may need to make bold moves that challenge it. Otherwise, yeah £35-45k for an IT manager, 23k on a till. If I got blackballed - so be it. It's about asserting one's worth and refusing to accept less, based on principles rather than immediate job necessity.
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We have a two tier economy in professional jobs. The people that realise it’s all funny money, know their value and demand their worth - and those who are passive and accept the company’s words on things like “market rate” etc. Even the good ones who do fight are still getting shafted really - what’s £150k these days - 6x minimum wage? And after taxes, loss of personal allowance etc, and taking into account in work benefits on the low end maybe 4x net. 6x minimum wage in 2000 was £40k, about what a mid level senior dev typically got on average.
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I would almost guarantee part of this is the need to be ‘doing work related activity such as looking for work’ required to be logged in the universal credit journal. Most applicants will have no relevance to the role and it is the modern equivalent of getting people to dig holes and fill them back in.
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I would simply go to interview, get the offer and then turn around and say: ”You do realise I can now get £23k stacking shelves and sitting on the tills at Morrisons right? With a paid sabbatical, a 10% discount off my shopping, and the ability to go home when my working hours are done. Oh, and get topped up by universal credit to near this salary anyway. So, if you think this job is only worth a raw 1.5x minimum wage, and less after tax and in work benefits, then there is something deeply wrong with you. Thanks but my personal integrity demands I’m going to go sit on the till. Come back when you’re offering 100k. And even that’s cheap”
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Tesla...............the Betamax of future cars?
Frugal Git replied to Maghull Mike's topic in House prices and the economy
I was just in California and saw a couple of cybertrucks. Sat in one in one of the Tesla Dealerships. Bloody thing looks awesome. I'd have one over there for sure. Nice wide roads, huge parking garages, it works there. It'd be an absolute disaster over here of course. My S is already terrifying with width restrictions and my lack of spatial awareness. -
Warning of almost 20 years of pay stagnation
Frugal Git replied to Housepricecrash91's topic in House prices and the economy
I used to think the same too - and for once, 100% I agree with you entirely. I think it's more like this now if you actually want to feel rewarded monetarily by work as experience grows. 20 - 30k (1.5x) 30 - 60k (2x) 40 - 120k (3x) 50 - 200k (4x) I realised too late that you needed to push extremely hard for your value. At 38, I was still languishing on full time equivalent of £50k (£30k for 3 day week) Fortunately I think I'm almost back on track now in mid forties for the figure mentioned at 50, and higher if I need to adjust for inflation🙏 -
Whose view do you find more convincing on inequality?
Frugal Git replied to sell2rent's topic in House prices and the economy
Both have validity. Stephenson isn't wrong in pointing out the wealth distribution is a fundamental issue and is leading to a society sleepwalking towards a really dark outcome. We have long debated the types of things he talks about on here. Peterson on the other hand is absolutely right on individual responsibility - one of the few things these days he is right on. You have to make the best of the situation you find yourself in and take personal action to improve it. You shouldn't be relying on anyone else or having a victim mentality. The issue is to truly embrace Peterson's meritocratic absolutism means dog eat dog. Many people don't have the stomach for that fight, or the ability / confidence to do it, and we can't completely shut them out and say 'too bad chump'. For me - I support Stephenson's general stance with some nuance, but I generally live like Peterson would approve of. In reality, someone like me – a healthy, balanced individual – can benefit from Peterson's emphasis on personal responsibility. Taking charge and making the best of your situation is crucial for individual growth. However, focusing solely on the individual ignores the systemic factors that create disadvantages for many. There will always be people who, through no fault of their own, lack the resources or opportunities to pull themselves up by their bootstraps. We need to acknowledge these societal inequalities and work towards solutions that create a fairer playing field. (Thanks to Gemini for the last paragraph 🤣) -
If you had said gross income, I would have nodded and thought yep, probable. That could be £11k before pension contribs if it's two 100k earners, or £9.5k. Very nice, but I can see not 'feeling rich'. Net income of nearly £17k a month and still not feeling rich I think requires self examination if I'm honest. Who are you comparing yourself too? What are your expenses like such that you don't have a very, very comfortable savings rate?
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(edit) - Basically - stupid quiz.
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Interesting and disjointed article. Stuck it into an LLM and it had this to say. "The first half deals almost exclusively with domestic British issues – crumbling infrastructure, social decline, lack of economic opportunity, and political failures albeit in a hyperbolic manner." The second half - well we can all read it. Here's the LLM analysis. "While an unfortunate tactic, the author then goes onto subtly link Britain's broader societal problems with external or minority groups (like the resurgence of AS). It's an underhanded attempt to create a scapegoat rather than a constructive examination of complex factors" "The first half of the article, if stripped of its hyperbole and disconnected ending, speaks to legitimate concerns felt by some Britons. The issues raised (infrastructure, housing, etc.) warrant continued examination and policy debate. However, it presents a one-sided, incomplete narrative that serves primarily to stoke a sense of decline rather than inspire informed discussion."