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House Price Crash Forum


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About Urdur

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  1. All of the above is correct..except this being a storm in a tea cup.. What the dilemma in Iceland revolves about, is the fact that the general public´s future until as late as 2046 is supposed to rely on present estimates that running a few shops in the UK over the next years will go as planned and in order for the Landsbanki resolution committee to get a good price once they are sold. We all know that the economy can go both ways so this is to the average Icelander to great of a risk..There is a huge difference in paying 50billion ISK and 230billion ISK which is the worst case senario.
  2. I wouldn't call it a government guarantee..these were simply word uttered in a time of chaos and panic by a PM currently awaiting trial for severe neglect in office.. Here's the thing, no government in Iceland can, due to it being forbidden by the Icelandic constitution, take on debt without the Parliament giving the green light first.. As for Icelandic deposits being guaranteed..again simply words spoken to prevent a run on the new banks..And it worked, no deposits have been payed out to anyone..
  3. You have a fundamental misunderstanding as to what happened in Iceland when the banks crashed...THE BANKS WERE NOT NATIONALIZED!!! In fact they all went bankrupt, leaving creditors with nothing since depositors were by emergency laws issued pre-right to any assets that those failed banks had.. What the Icelandic government did was to found new banks, financed and owned by the state. The Icelandic state did not steal any assets from the bankrupt banks, they simply bought all outstanding domestic dept and assets (i.e individual/business). As for external debt/assets , there are people currently working in London collecting and selling it and due to the emergency laws, that money goes straight to the UK and Dutch government..You can rest assure that once Iceland, House of Fraser, Debenhams and Hamley's are sold you will get the cash..
  4. Oh..really..did we do that or are you perhaps taling with your a**s like Peter Hun..? Sure the Icelandic government said it would cover all Icelandic deposits in order to stop a bank run that was currently taking place..It however never came to the point that the state had to put up money for anything else than start money for the new banks..Which we are currently paying for.. Icesave is very comlpicated matter which is why no one wants to take it to court..not Iceland, not the UK or Holland and the least of all the EU..It challenges all Eu laws on banking deposits and the EU simply isn't ready to have a ruling in this matter. Here's how it started.. The UK used terrorism laws against Iceland which placed it next to North Korea, Sudan, the Taliban and Al qaida on her HMG black weblist. No money could be transferred in or out if Iceland for a f**ing month resulting in god knows what amount og money lost.. Next came the international blackmail.. For a year and a half..Iceland could not get a loan from the IMF nor Scandinavia..because of Icesave.. The IMF said it could not cash out because Scandinavia were blocking it..Scandinavia said..no it's the IMF blocking it... Iceland has come along way from it¨s original position..We have had two Icesave deals prior to this one, which were about 40-70% worse than this current one.. We've had a very weak government that was ready to sign a crappy deal two times because of fear of international isolation.. The last time..we the people had to take matters into our own hands to prevent them from legalizing a slave treaty by the only means we had left..a referendum.. Funny enough..it wasn't until after the referendum that things got moving again with the IMF and Scandinavia, surely because of shame.. Honestly..for the first time in two years I do feel that we should sign this deal and get it over with..not because I think i owe this money, but simply because I do think that Iceland has at least the moral obligation not to make British and Dutch taxpayers responible for this..
  5. No it's more like your flatemate is a thief and when he is is caught, he demands that you are responsible and you agree while being held by a gunpoint..Then afterwards while you insist that it is illegal that you have to pay...The gun is still amed on your head, this time by the police.. Here's another fact..threatening a state to become the Cuba of the North can do that do scarecrows..AND BTW no one ever came to to the Uk and Holland and promised anything..that's a scenario emerged from your own bigoted head.. REALLY...please refer to a source on this one..as useless and pathetic as the Icelandic government and media were, they were not being paid anything by anyone..They were simply useless..And No the president was not being paid either...He was a cheerleader for the bankers as he was for any other Icelandic company. His mistakes lie there and in the fact that he accepted a few free rides on jets privetly owned by outvasion vikings. I however urge you not to make light of a person like the Icelandic President, superior to yourself in wisdom both politically and economically wise,..Belive me..he would suffocate you in any argument.. RACIAL SUPERIORITY..LESSOR HUMAN SPECIES...WOW...We Icelanders haven't had many conquers..but we stand and fall with us having the worlds most beautiful women and the worlds strongest men..based on the fact that we have won the price most often PER CAPITA..but a Ubermensch is not in the Icelandic vocabulary..What the F*** is yout problem anyways..Did you loose alot during the bank collapse, did an Icelandic dude kick our sorry a*rse or were you s'''wed ower by an Icelandic woman??? You take your pick..your are a d**k anymays.. Right..And how much time have you spent in Iceland in your lifetime being the expert that you are on the matter? We can agree on one thing..ALOT of people in Iceland behaved themselves like idiots, just like alot of people all over the western hemisphere did by gathering themselves alot of debt.. Bying flat screenes does however not make a banking system 10XGDP...that's the banksters and the usless governments fault.. I'm a normal person that has never owned a flat screen nor a Range Rover..I owe a flat and tuition fees..I however HAD to emigate from Iceland to a neighbouring country..i.e Norway, simply to have a job. And guess what..I'm not laughing.... I've had the most shitty year of my life far away from my family..so exuse me from not wanting my country from taking on an illegal private debt that will keep me from being able to live at my own home for the next couple of decades... Honestly..I'm not sure what the president will do on this on..All I know that Icelanders feel within their wery core that nationalizing private debt is wrong..I gather from your bigoted posts that you DO NOT seem to understand that Icelanders have a very strong objectiveness towards injustice. It's the core of our being, since after all the Norwegians that founded Iceland left Norway because of injust taxation..It's the same reason we fought and won the Cod wars... You're a Brit..you are used to being the bully so I don't expect you to understand the underdog..
  6. I can understand why people get confused over the Icelandic bank collapse since the media constantly refers to the banks being nationalized, which they were not. What the Icelandic government did was to issue emergency laws that granted the Icelandic FSA the power to seize control of banks that were headed for bankruptcy while they were closed. During the hours the banks were closed and until they opened up the following day, the FSA divided the bankrupt banks into two separate identities, old and new banks. Glitnir, Kaupþing and Landsbankinn, the "old" bankrupt ones were put into a special bankruptcy process and all assets and foreign debt were left in these identities. Both creditors and depositors must seek their claim here although the emergency legislation made sure that depositors stand first in line. New Glitnir, New Kaupþing and New Landsbanki were the banks that opened the following day. They were financed by the Icelandic state which also bought all Icelandic debt and deposits from the "old banks". So the banks that currently operate in Iceland are virtually debt free totally "new" banks. Since the collapse two of these three new banks have been handed to back to their "old" former creditors. What these investors are threatening is nothing new..this has been going on since the banks were allowed to go bankrupt and the emergency legislation passed. What has however happened in the mean time is that the ESA(EFTA Surveillance Authority) has made it perfectly clear that the move to grant depositors a priority claim is perfectly legal according to EEA laws. So they will loose and hence no biggie..
  7. Reykjavik tonight.. I'm not really scared of the protests itself, I was there every night back in 2009 and would there tonight if I hadn't moved to Norway.. I want a full scale revolution.. It's more that I'm scared that this isn't going to work, because if it doesn't I truly believe that a complete social collapse will occur in Iceland with resulting poverty and pain for common people..
  8. A good question indeed considering the fact that the Icelandic banks went bankrupt and defaulted on creditors.. First of all, due all the banks going down, the Icelandic state had to finance the banks that replaced them the day after and the state also had to buy all domestic debts from the bankrupt ones. This added up to about 400 billion ISK as I recall.. Second..the Central bank also experienced a "technical bankruptcy" so the State also had to deliver some 250 billion ISK to fix that problem. This however is being payed for with several years of huge government spending cuts, a process we are currently in.. The foreign loans are however the offspring of the IMF..they came to the conclusion that in order for Iceland to regain international trust it had to take foreign currency loans for some 700 billion ISK. This fund, needless to say has not restored international trust in Iceland The good news however is that this sum is not being used but sits in a bank account in N.Y.C as a foreign currency reserve fund and will be repaid A.S.A.P... The bad news is that in the mean time, the IMF controls everything in the reconstruction of the Icelandic economy. 2 of the three largest new banks have been handed over to their former creditors which would be a good thing if their mission wasn't to blood milk the Icelandic public to make up for their previous loss.. The Icelandic public want's a correction of their typical inflation bound loans in such a manner that their amount be brought back to what it was on January 1st 2008. This has been refused by the IMF and just last week the Icelandic government assured Strauss Kahn that there will be no flat correction regarding housing loans as it would compromise the BANKS..$&%$%$#.. He in return expressed his delight over this and the fact that the bankruptcy ban is out of order.. In the mean time, billion upon billions of debt is being written of former bankers by new bankers.. There is a huge protest this evening...People have had enough and are considerably angrier than in January 2009 when the "Crash Government" was forced to resign..I for one am actually scared for the first time since 2008 as to what is going to happen to my fellow countrymen..
  9. Yup..well at least up until the supreme court ruled these loans illegal..Now of course they are trying to recalculate these loans with interest rates decided by the Central bank and are 100% higher than those in the original loan agreements. What they are however going to do regarding people that had their vehicles confiscated last year, I don't know?? And yes 19 million Icelandic is almost 107,000 pounds.
  10. A large portion of the Icelandic public got caught up in the bubble and went on a spending spree. The best example of the mania that manifested itself in the Icelandic society is the fact that when Toy's R Us opened over one weekend in 2006, the Icelandic nation set a world record in toy shopping.. When it comes to explaining the Icelandic crash, this has been called "the flat screen theory". I for one to not agree with this theory as I cannot see how buying to many flat screens and toys can completely destroy a whole nations economy. As for the general public being happy when house prices were going up, well the only generation that gained anything from this rise were people over 50 that had bought or built houses prior to 2000 and were about to downgrade in size.. The rest were forced to buy ridiculously priced apartments and had to take huge loans in order to do so. Now let me explain where the anger is coming from, but in order to do so I must explain how things work in Iceland. First I will say that taxes have increased, income has decreased, food prices have gone up 70%, energy prices up 30%, unemployment is 9%(even though several thousands have fled abroad to work) and the housing market has been in deep freeze for two years. 1. The general loan system in Iceland. For all loans longer than 5 years, the Icelandic public has been forced for three decades to take loans that are index bound to inflation. This means that when there is inflation in Iceland(which is always), the loan increases. Here's a personal example. I bought a 62m2 flat in 2002 for 8 millions ISK. I sold it in 2006 for 15 millions and bought a 76m2 flat instead for 20,5 millions. So after this transaction I owed 14 millions. Since then I have payed 4 millions, but due to the currency crash and the gigantic inflation that followed, the loan stands at 19 millions. This is not to be corrected due to the IMF refusing to allow it.. 2."Foreign currency loans" In 2001 the Icelandic parliament issued laws forbidding the banks to grant loans in ISK that were index bound to foreign currency. The banks however started issuing these loans in 2002 and virtually fooled the general public into taking them, by persuading customers of the brilliance of these kind of loans. By taking them they could escape the "inflation index" and in a save manner due to the strong Krona. Virtually every car bought via loan between 2002 and 2008 has a loan of this kind and about 10% of houses, hence the throwing of car keys in the video. Needless to say, the parliament did nothing to stop these loans. In 2008 when Iceland came crashing down, the currency crashed 100% resulting in a 100% mutation of these loans. Needless to say, no one that took this kind of a loan has been able to pay anything for two years now. This summer, these loans were ruled as illegal by the Icelandic supreme court. Politicians however have done nothing regarding this issue since 2008 besides setting a bankruptcy ban that went out of order last Friday. It is expected the thousands of families will be evacuated from their homes this month due to bankruptcy because of these loans. There have even been a few suicides directly linked to these illegal loans. Would you be willing to stand in front of an Icelandic crowd and say...The crash is your fault because you bought to much stuff??? Hardly...No Iceland came crashing down because politicians allowed the banks to become 10X GDP and because bankers took advantage of ordinary people that came to them for economic guidance. Heck they even managed to persuade kids to buy bank shares for their confirmation money..
  11. If only it was this simple.. The Icelandic banks operated under EU laws and were regularly checked out by the ESA to see if they were playing by the book. Not once were they caught with their knickers down and that goes for the deposit guarantee fund as well.. The ONLY obligation that the Icelandic state had was to make sure that a guarantee fund was created according to the directive and that minimum amounts were being put into it. The Icelandic state or any other EEA state were not obligated to make sure that enough money existed in those funds to cover all deposits..Should that have been the case, then well, I guess all EEA countries have been breaching the directive for years. Here's the core of this problem...The EU did not forsee a systemic crash of an entire banking system so the direktive does not say what to do in those cases where the deposit guarantee scheme goes bust. It certainly doesn't say that a state guarantee is to be put forward to cover the losses. So, given the fact that Iceland wanted to take this matter to court and find out what it's obligations actually were, the EU decided to cover up this glitch in their laws by forcing Iceland into issuing a state guarantee. That battle is ongoing.. Obviously someone has to pay for this mess, and the vast majority of Icelanders think, even though they know that they are by no laws bound to, that they should take part in that payment. BUT....This is not a problem solely created by Iceland. Sure those banksters were Icelandic as were the banks, but they were poorly regulated by not only the Icelandic FSA but also the UK and Dutch ones and operated on crappy laws written in Brussels. So Iceland has agreed to pay the first 20.000 euros but given the fact that many are to blame for this mess we refuse to take all the blame as well as all the risk revolving the asset recovery.. You also must realize that the loans from the IMF and the Nordics will not be used for anything..They sit in a bank account in the US collecting interests and are only there as a reserve fund for the Icelandic Krona..So the interests on those loans aren't really that big of an issue.The UK and Dutch loans on the other hand are like paying the bill without ever having the cake..Here we are guaranteeing money that we never see and never use and equals to 50% GDP. As if that wasn't bad enough then the interests started ticking in January 2009 and we haven't even signed the loan agreement.. So to sum up the NO vote from yesterday...YES WE WILL PAY BUT NOT WITH OUR WELLFARE!!!! If Britain has a problem with that, then by all means sue us...
  12. This is not correct..The Icelandic banks were not nationalized in the same manner as RBS etc.. What Iceland did was to allow the "old" banks to go bankrupt but by issuing emergency laws, the Icelandic FSA was able to take over the banks in the middle of the night before they were officially declared bust and thus enabled to create "new" banks that were supposed to continue to operate domestically. So the "old" banks held all liabilities both foreign and domestic and all foreign assets. The "new" banks bought all domestic assets with taxpayers money from the old mothercompany and are thus debt free entities. These new banks have now been handed over to foreign creditors(mostly german banks). The emergency laws issued by Parliament also made depositors priority creditors over others.. This means that all the assets of the old Landsbanki that by the way still remain frozen in the UK will be used based on these Icelandic emergency laws, to cover the liabilities of the Icelandic deposit guarantee scheme fund.
  13. AKA profiting from taxpayers.. Just yet another reason why Iceland will cast a big fat NO tomorrow.. The threats of economic and political isolation were enough to scare the Icelandic political elite into submission but thanks to the Icelandic constitution and 25% of Icelands voters, the people were able to take matter into their own hands.. NO FEAR!!! The IMF, EU and Nordics can breathe down our necks all they want...we simply don't give a toss... It's better to poor, but free, than a fat slave..
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