trickydicky79

Note, above post in reply to RichB @3.22pm

I can’t explain that, other than EA’s are salespeople and, as such, employ all the usual sales tactics and spin. But the vast majority would stop short of outright lies and certainly inventing mythical buyers. Just remember, the seller ultimately holds all the cards, they set the price and agree any offer. If they’re stubborn or bordering on delusional there’s nothing you or any EA can do. Out of curiosity, what is the EA telling you around the time you view? Have you ever put in an offer?

I agree with you! My post was out of frustration more than anything else. I was just highlighting that, in a pretty stagnant market, you still get people who will pay over the odds even with no competition. I suspect they didn’t do their homework and based offers purely on advertised price, but only they know that for sure. They wanted it for more than I was willing to pay, that’s it.

If you’re lucky, then you’ll find yourself being the only person interested and the only person making an offer. Great, put in an offer, see what the reaction is, set a limit etc etc, all very basic and common sense stuff. Now, unless you like wrecks of houses or hugely overpriced ones, you’ll probably find that you’re not the only interested in a given house. You have two choices, walk away, or make an offer. Again, if you’re lucky, then you might have some advantage over any other party, i.e. nothing to sell, ready to move quickly etc etc. If you’re unlucky, you haven’t. Therefore with two parties evenly matched any sale is really going to come down to who makes the highest offer. Now, I’m as cynical and wary of Estate Agents as anyone, but to assume that any offers on a house are fictitious and just a ploy to coerce you into making an offer is very naïve indeed. I’m not saying this has never happened, but for an EA to go down this route they really are playing with fire and its practice is very rare. Firstly, its illegal, there’s always a chance they’ll be caught out and risk losing their jobs. Secondly, its very likely to backfire and you’ll see your real buyer pull out (like I did). Thirdly, why bother? An EA works on a commission of sale price, around 1 – 1.25%, it is simply not worth this dangerous and illegal practice to gain a few hundred quid (and that’s for the company, their personal commission would be even less). Like it or not, most sellers use EA’s and you must deal with them. You are very unlikely to ever meet the other interested parties in person (unless you actually find who they are by word of mouth) so you have little choice than to trust them that, when they have said an offer has been made, it really has. If you always assume their lying you’re never going to buy anywhere, ever.

Paranoid a little aren’t we? Despite your critical eye and super sleuthing skills, I’m afraid I have to tell you you’re wrong on all counts. But, I must admit, I’m flattered by your determination to oust me… Just don’t let me catch you going through my bins! It against my better judgement to even respond to your drivel, but I will just say this. You’ve obviously never really bought anything have you? A new/used car? a house? An auction? (not ebay!). When you do, and you find another person wants to buy it, two things happen: One - the price starts to go up (as the two parties compete to secure the sale, until one decided enough is enough and pulls out). Two – One party realises there actually isn’t another party at all, and he’s being had by an evil nasty estate agent who is breaking the law to increase his commission by a fractional amount; risking losing the sale, as well as his job, as a result. The evil estate agent does this just for fun you see, its what they do, call it an addiction if you like. Of course the super slick potential buyer (lets call him Needle) doesn’t fall for this scam as it is his mission in life to rid the world of these nasty estate agents so he shouts abuse down the phone and posts rude things on websites. One day Needle might even find himself putting a dead rat through the estate agent’s letterbox. Sadly, Needle’s often get arrested for this and often end up getting a nice visit from a two Doctors and a Social Worker before they get taken to a nice place to relax and play with their friends… [Psst… “Needle, don’t look now but I think there’s an Estate Agent behind you”]

Oh no, my very own cyber-stalker How paranoid are you?!!!! I assure you that I am 1) Real. 2) of no relation to pswnio 3) Been a registered user since 2009, just very rarely post (The only reason I did so last night was because I was actually embarking on buying a house and actually felt I had something to write about rather than just speculation. I was also a bit bored!) Please put you tin foil hat back on….

St Pauls = No Easton = No Both are the centre of Bristol as far as Gun crime, Street prostitution (even daylight hours) and street-level drug dealing are concerned. Gang violence is on the up and the areas simply are not safe. Avoid, Avoid, Avoid.

I’m far from an expert, but I found myself in a similar situation today after I too had a bid rejected (albeit for a much lower sum than yours!). I was competing against one other party, both of us FTB’s (so the ‘not having to sell’ & ‘ready to move quickly’ joker card didn’t really help me!). I did thorough research into sold prices of identical properties and put in a matching offer to suit. The other party started with a much higher bid, almost asking price, which was somewhere around 10k above the market value, or around 5-6% more than I would value it at. Understandably, the seller expected their offer. The house had been on for a week and a day, had 14 viewings (allegedly) and was in a nice area. It required a substantial refurbishment, but would’ve still been good value at my price. However, the other party’s offer, plus the refurb cost, put it at full market value. Now, I stuck to my guns and deliberately avoided being dragged into a bidding war for the below reasons…. (I don’t know how this fits in with your circumstances) Firstly, I got the feeling the other party had bought ‘with their heart’, they put in an offer after the first viewing and did so (as I described earlier) 5 or 6% higher than market value. As a result, they also asked for it to be taken off the market and for all further viewings to be cancelled. I seriously doubt I would want to compete with such determined buyers as they appear to be willing to pay over the odds despite logic or current market conditions. Secondly, I needed a mortgage at around 80-85% LTV, leaving me enough to do the refurb work. I’ve no idea about the other party’s situation but, I think its fair to assume, that they to needed to mortgage and, as FTB’s, probably were looking to borrow a similar sum. I think that, because of their above-market offer, the subsequent mortgage valuation may refuse to lend to them at their offer-price (there were two identical properties sold last year which established a good benchmark at a lower price), they may find themselves unable to make up any shortfall and therefore unable to meet the right LTV ratio to proceed. For that reason, if it re-enters the marker because they can’t fulfil their offer, I didn’t want to have already ‘shown my hand’ and tie myself to a higher offer than I think fair. Bottom line, if you really want the house, you will have to put in a high offer, maybe offering more than you feel it’s really worth. Alternative? Take a gamble, the other higher offers may fall through and you might find yourself in a stronger position if the house comes back on. If there’s more than one interested party willing to make offers, logic and reasn seem to go out of the window.

I think it’s a case of someone buying using their heart rather than their head. Sadly, no amount of bearish sentiment can sway the emotions of some determined people. I suppose you must just stick to your guns and avoid getting suckered in. I see this a lot, the houses I’m looking at are generally those attractive to young couples or FTB’s - i.e. 2-3 bed houses and not too bothered about room for loads of kids or school catchment areas. Trouble is, these type of houses generally only get lived in for around 5 years before people marry, have a second child (etc) and their priorities change to seeking a larger, quieter family home. If you look at the prices current owners paid 5 years ago then a large number were sold at peak. They simply can’t (or won’t) sell at a loss and stubbornly hold on for the ‘right price’ or hold off putting their house up for sale altogether. When the odd one comes up at a realistic price, there is still a lot of interest despite the tightening of credit. I think, if you can afford it, its better to jump this stage altogether and look at the large family houses where the current owners (at least some anyway) are more willing to lower their expectations and can accept lower sale prices and still make a tidy sum to boot (retirees, down-sizers, emigrating overseas etc). Sadly, I can’t afford to bypass this stage and, like many other I expect, when a medium size house in a nice area comes up for sale I immediately take an interest. Whilst I still remain headstrong and thoroughly research prices and values, others simply look at the stubbornly high prices around them, decide this is a ‘bargain’ and they can just about afford it, then jump in hoping they don’t ‘miss out’. Its certainly not helped by the ‘Now is a good time to buy’ and ‘get yourself out of the dead rental market’ advise of their parents and the dreadful stream of property porn spewed out across all TV channels! Although I hate my current flat (its cheap and I’m on a month-by-month rolling contract), I will bide my time and hopefully timing will be on my side next time!

Put an offer in today... I found most nice places beyond my reach, but finally found one that I could just about manage to afford. It was a ‘death in family inheritance’ and the place needed gutting – the works really; wiring; building work; new central heating; new kitchen & bathroom, but even with factoring these in I thought it was a good buy and in an area where houses don’t often come up and I was actually looking forward to taking on a challenge Now… The house for sale was, as I said, in need of refurbishment - around 15-20k to bring it to a reasonably standard. Maybe more, maybe less, but definitely ‘in need of modernisation’ It was on for 175k (its 1st week) Two houses - absolutely identical buildings, in every respect – both sold last year for £159k - one in the summer and one in October. Both needed work, and I know for sure that the latter was in a similarly rundown condition. I thought… value at around £159k last year, probably about 157k now, but the sellers were apparently willing to negotiate and wanted a quick sale, so try for £155k and see what happens? Just about to make my offer when I was told another party made an offer (yesterday) and the seller was prepared to accept. Would I like to make an offer as they were cancelling all remaining viewings (I had a second viewing booked in for two days time). Intially, no hint on the other party’s offer... I thought, chances of a cheeky offer were probably gone, so went in straight in for £159k (a fair offer by anyone’s standard) = rejected. ‘Ok’, I thought, ‘I like the place, so might have to accept a slight overpayment due to competition’. So, £162k = rejected (very quickly) Decided to cut to the chase and told the agent that we best just stop wasting each other’s time… “Am I anywhere near the other party’s offer? Otherwise we’ll be playing this game all day and I already think my offer exceeds its current value”. Agent, “No, you’ll need to offer substantially more” Me, “Ok then, let’s forget it. I know how much the others went for, this place is no different and I’m not getting into a bidding war” The other party’s bid was accepted and I can say with some degree of certainty that it must have been high £160’s to low £170’s. I can’t fathom some people! I understand prices push up when several parties are interested, but this was their first offer, and they didn’t even know that I was willing to make an offer when they made it! Do they not do their homework??? One quick tap into Google and you’ll pull up sold prices and find out your starting offer was around 10-12k over sold prices from 2011. Arggh!!! Although I’m disappointed losing out, I feel more annoyed that I’m up against such idiots willing to pay whatever an Estate Agent puts in their window! I can almost see the conversation with their friends, “we got a bargain, it was on for 175, but we got it for 170!” My only consolation is, that with any luck, the Mortgage valuation will be more thorough that the buyers were and will only value it at around £157k. If the buyers need to make up a 13 grand shortfall I might find it back on the market sooner than I thought! Note, the accepted offer was made by FTB's, House is in the SW area, 2/3 bed semi which, in good condition, maybe sell for £190k (probably the ceiling price, due to the houses' size which is a little on the small size for a family home)

Indeed on iplayer.... http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b00tlxzr/Jeremy_Vine_31_08_2010/ (Starts at 1:39.40 into the programme)

Q: Stupid Reasons Why Vendors Sell At High Prices? A: Stupid buyers! For most, it will be the biggest single purchase of their lifetime, yet it amazes me how very little some buyers invest in doing their research. There are a lot who simply work out what they can afford, then start looking in that price range. Few, on finding a house they like, actually start investigating previous sold/bought prices and work out how much it should really be. Mention Property Bee, Nethouseprices, Zoopla or LR data and they’ll just scratch their heads! Ask what the current trend for house prices are, and you’ll probably get no more that a quote from their last-remembered newspaper headline (probably without even reading the full article, and no idea whether it was biased or not), or perhaps even worse, their impression is based on ‘advice’ from family & friends – The “You can’t lose with brick & mortar”, “At least you’re on the ladder” – types! I doubt many find the sold price, adjust for increases/decreases and work out what the maximum current price should be, then work out what they might lose with further reductions, then consider a sensible offer. I think it’s down to the ‘falling in love’, ‘we must buy this house at all costs’….and (pass me the bucket please) the ‘wow factor’! This, combined with a misplaced faith in the EA valuations, means occasionally houses sell…. The more savvy will do their sums and simply work out the seller is dreaming, and walk away or put in a realistic (soon rejected) offer. But sadly, all the hard work will be undone be some Muppet who buys their ‘bargain’ (i.e. they had their offer accepted £5k less than the asking price!) House prices should be falling, and some are, but although headed in the right direction, public sentiment hasn’t quite got there yet…..

You’ve probably done the right thing; a house sold for 250k in 2005 now up for 400k is a hell of an increase! (I know it’s had an extension, but does it really improve it to almost double its value?). Anyway, assume 400k is a ‘fair’ price in today’s market then….. It was probably ‘worth’ circa 470k at 2007 peak (now 15% less) Most rational people believe prices will bottom at 30-40% from 2007 Peak. That’s a potential future value of 282k to 329k. So your 320k offer was probably a sensible price to protect yourself from any serious future falls. It’s now been rejected, so what? Is the house really that perfect? Houses are always going to be sold and you will find another that you like at some point. Perhaps one priced much lower and that you could put your own extension on!! The winters coming, Stamp duty’s getting revised at the end of the year, prices are set to fall…..

Just about every force in England and Wales are rolling out more Tazers to frontline officers, following their successful trial over the last few years. I would expect to see their deployment becoming more commonplace, especially given the situations a regular front-line (i.e. Non-firearms officer) attends. Although undoubtedly painful to be on the receiving end, they’re generally thought to have no lasting physiological effects and, as a result, in some cases are actually favoured to CS/Pepper spray or batons; which both can give lasting discomfort (CS) or actual injury i.e. shattered bones in the case of batons. Tazer has the advantage of providing temporary incapacitation to most subjects, unlike CS -very indiscriminate, and not very effective against those highly-strung or particularly violent – and batons, used only when things have got pretty desperate and they certainly have no guarantee of success. As for the “if you Tazer somebody and they fall to the ground and smash their skull†argument, then the officer would not have any criminal culpability provided he/she could justify that use of force, and the level of force was judged to be 'reasonable in the circumstances'.

Just bunged it on Zoopla, £139,600, which I think is probably fair (for now.....?) Thing is, I think he's missed the boat now by pricing too high. It's unlikely to generate much more interest during the winter, and with further falls to come.....?

Strange one the Stamp Duty threshold, I can't quite decide whether it will bring average house prices down or allow a few to actually increase? I think the 175k threshold has forced a lot of people selling (or hoping to sell!) to accept offers not exceeding this amount. In other words, its acted like an anchor keeping prices for anything around the 185k at bay. When its gone, might we find seller's holding out for that 'extra' 5 or 10k, or simply finding it easier to market their houses in the first place at a higher price because "It was always worth £ xxxx" (that one particularly grates on me!)? On the bright side, if its does have that effect at 175k, then the effect at the other end will also be true; houses priced at 125-140k will now face a gravity pull downwards to the 125k threshold as offers come in at these lower amounts and refuse to break the 125k 'barrier'. I do think the EA's are worried about it though, saw one agent's advert for homes around 175k with the strap line "Save up to £1,750 on this property during September - ask us how!" - twats.

I doubt it would go that low (it’s not a new build, is in good order, and is about a good as you can get for a flat in the area), and it would probably sell if priced correctly. Trouble is, even at the ‘reduced’ price, you can get a 2-bed house in the area. I always considered expensive flats being the preserve of fashionable city centres or waterfronts (neither of which appeal to me). When you’re in the suburbs people expect (and want) a house, with the garden/garage etc that comes with it. I think if he’s serious about selling he’ll have to accept breaking-even on what he paid a few years ago. Trouble is, he’s already said he’ll not drop the price further and will only settle for almost the full asking price. He’s planning his next move already, including making offers on houses himself, and seems undeterred about not one offer in over 2 months for his place!

Bristol area (though not city).

A friend had his flat valued around spring 2008 (when the house price falls were starting to hit the headlines). Three local estate agents came round; two 25 year-old ‘wiseguys’ and one middle-aged EA. The last EA actually owned their own agency and had been an EA for around 25yrs (and started laying off staff, hence why they were doing the leg work!). The two 25 year-olds (who’d obviously never known anything other than HPI’s), spent around 5-mins looking around the flat with their hands in their pockets, before coming up with valuations of 160-165k (this is for a 2-bed flat!). this was closely followed by them spouting all sorts of crap about supply & demand and how the looming HPC wasn’t to be believed. Anyway, the other more ‘seasoned’ EA gave a valuation, priced in her opinion to sell quickly, at 145k. She was the only one to give any reasoning; flats harder to sell above this price, 2-bed houses available in the area for the 160k mark (which he would find very difficult to compete with), market sentiment, etc. my mate was furious, saying she knew f*** all and how dare she value his place so low. I had to bite my lip to prevent me saying, “she’s the only one to give any reasoning behind their valuation, she’s been a local agent for over 25 years, runs her own business and is old enough to have seen HPC in the past, she’s clearly worried about another HPC and is pricing your place fairly in order for you to sell quickly. She’s clearly not touting for your business as she still gave her lower valuation even after you told her what the two fcukwits had valued the flat at. I know who I’d believe!â€. Anyway, he didn’t put it on the marker in then, but has done now (first went on in June/July 09); He got just one of the agencies (that’s one of the pair that had given him the high values last time) to come around, and bunged it on at 159,950. One month = no viewings Dropped the asking price by 5k To date, a few viewings = No offers. He offered it to me for 145k, (he paid 130k around 5 years ago). Unsurprisingly, I said no.