indirectapproach

"So simple self interest should lead them to conclude that a viable society is better than one in which they must live in constant fear of attack from the disaffected have nots." Well that's very true and it's probably got something to do with the richest 1% paying 25%. And if they didn't avoid what they do they'd probably be paying what? - 30%? Who knows? But what the passage of this thread does seem to show is that no one gives a monkeys about what's "worthwhile", which I as a naive and foolish liberal (ex?) find a little sad. Anyway, there have been some good dramatic interpretations of this reality and this is one of my many favourites, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kUuj-qRdTOc Oh and don't the numbers show that the rich are paying more tax than ever while living at yet greater risk of getting jumped by feral have nots?

Certainly, the people who coined it while messing up the global financial system deserve all the opprobrium they get and don't get anything like as much as they deserve it seems. However, on the subject of the rich (the basterds, all of 'em) they do also provide an incentive to a lot of people. These people may be misguided. They may not be. But I think that incentive is quite valuable to them. Certainly my perception that it is vaguely possible for me to accumulate some wealth and then avoid paying tax on it incentivises me.

"Wages need to correct to reflect that." Oh that would be spiffing. We could have a nice man in a ministry somewhere who decides what people get paid. That would work, well it always has in the past.

The inequalities in the economy are the product of the settled collective wisdom of the British people, democratically expressed time and again in favour of a capitalistic, market/mixed economy (we must have some nationalised industry left other than the banks right?). In and to which the rich give as well as receive. I would have thought that might be quite warming, whether one was rich or not.

" I don’t suppose you know a way that I could classify my wife as depreciating asset and claim accordingly ?" Oh come on. Even your wife knows how you could do that.

What so this is serious? Despite the politics of envy, we should not over fark with the wealthy guy because he does contribute? More than all the idle chavs and their carping cohorts ..? Maybe someone should be hung?

"do you think i am fiddling?" Couldn't care less. Idle is the adjective in my mind.

"cant be @rsed" Which is why you will probably never pay as much tax as you should.

Then read the article you idle chav

Top 1% of workers pay quarter of all income tax http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/personalfinance/consumertips/tax/8321369/Top-1-of-workers-pay-quarter-of-all-income-tax.html I bet these numbers are wrong. But if they are not, maybe the proletarian brotherhood should tone it back a bit.

If Tunis and Egypt can do it, no doubt Scotland will soon. It is the season for popular uprising and Scotland's time has at last come.

Oh, so it's buy to bonk over there rather than buy to let. Interest rates will go up. Some payments will get missed. Suddenly someone will realise they're staring at a house on cards. And it'll all come crashing down mistresses and all. Chinese history is not my best subject but I bet it has its fair share of train wrecks. Why should this be different? The question is when?

The Chinese cannot escape the business cycle. No one can.

So it'll be the usual then, interest rates.

I wouldn't be so pessimistic. The decrease in Chinese demand/relevance may be problematic but I do not think it will be the end of the game, which was in play before China got all the attention and Japan went all "lost decade".

Anyone know where Chanos gets his numbers from?

So you think the US unemployment rate will be c. 5.5 % by summer 2013 too. That's cool.

A very good vid. Thanks for posting. A quick google tells me the US started putting their interest rates up in the second half of 2004 and were tits up summer 2007. China started putting their rates up second half 2010. So, summer 2013 looks good to me if only because the suggestion is so gloriously superficial. I wonder if the US will be firing so that it can take up the slack by that time? Quite possibly, methinks.

On a serious FCX moment, google finance tells me they have the 2nd best P/E of their peers and the best net profit margin. Bloomberg tells me their short interest is a very manageable 2.6%. That compares with a short interest percentage of 5.7% for GE to 0.7% for ExxonMobil. FCX came out with results on January 20, which according to americanbankingnews.com beat estimates by 8% with quarter on quarter revenue up 21.5% but the shares have not kicked on from their pre-results levels. FCX looks set to take some kicking on the back of China's interest rate move this afternoon but unless copper and gold have topped out as of this afternoon, it is a very good bet to go up a lot in price soon. After all, it even has, "Copper and Gold" in its name, which is one of the reasons I hold this baby and believe in it.

Oh quite. Even if you can drag any lucre outta the quicksand all around, by the time you've paid what you have to and avoided what you can, you certainly need twice or probably more like twice thrice that to make anything other than PAYE worth the candle. And there's FCX, after a bright as bonnets start, down 2%. Who'd've thunk that?

When China blows, which it will ,there will be one helluva mess. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/china-business/8291626/Underground-world-hints-at-Chinas-coming-crisis.html I think the trick is to create diversified and resilient income streams to see one through those bad times. That and keeping your debt low. But what do i know?

Oh cool man, that's just like Paris.

Very fair point. The currency thing is a bit of an ag but it's a double edged sword and what's got the more problems, the dollar, the euro or sterling?

"Copper the new gold...useful as well as valuable." That's why I buy, Freeport-McMoRan Copper & Gold Inc, NYSE epic, "FCX". P/E, who cares ....

" how will it end? " Since the Americans spent their way to victory in the cold war, maybe they can be forgiven for using the same approach against the guys who did 9/11. But since they can't afford it for much longer, they will probably pull their guys back and prepare to meet their enemies closer to home. I bet that's a lot less expensive. Then, among much wailing and gnashing of teeth and printing, they will start to pay down their debt. The logic behind this is happily inescapable. In preparation for this I would expect to see some stories in the press about American military incompetence. I'm sure they must be legion. A bit like the ones of the British army using 30% of their helicopter flights for VIP military tourists while bitching for years they do not have enough helicopters.