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Everything posted by Game_Over

  1. Many of these people worked from age 14 and lived very frugally for decades in order to pay into pensions and save for their retirement. Had they pissed everything up the wall we wouldn't be any better off in fact we would be even worse off. And once the state has stolen everything they have, the state will then have to borrow even more to support these people unless the plan is to leave them to starve or freeze to death.
  2. Are you still banging on about Deflation? We will never, ever, ever get deflation in the UK they will keep printing until they lose control of inflation then they will have to hike interest rates. At the moment everyone is far deeper in the crap than we are, so they are getting away with it. The fact remains, however, that what they are getting away with is theft on a grand scale.
  3. People who are now too old to sell their Labour have to rely on savings in order to survive. When inflation rips, these are the people who suffer. It must be pretty hard to see a lifetime of hard work destroyed in a couple of years.
  4. Sorry, wasn't having a go at you. I just thought you were being over generous suggesting that the concept was difficult for people to understand. TBH I don't think the problem is lack of intelligence, it's just the same old story people see what they want to see and believe what they want to believe regardless of the evidence. IMO we have clearly reached the point where any increase in any form of taxation anywhere in the economy will result in falling revenues either directly or indirectly. Take the Green taxes on fuel bills which are hard to avoid - people will just have less money to spend on non essential items, therefore, less VAT will be raised and also people in retail could lose their jobs and end up claiming benefit. There is only one way out of the mess we are in, but it will be extremely painful for those who work for and live off the state I'm afraid.
  5. How about looking at 100 years of history. And it is hardly counter intuitive - if you steal everything people make they end up only making what they personally need to survive. Societies that use Socialism to redistribute wealth in order to remove inequality always achieve their goal its just that they achieve equality by making everyone poor.
  6. QE just writes down debt at the expense of savings Obviously you cannot print actual 'wealth' therefore printing just transfers wealth from those with savings to those in debt As the Government is in loads of debt, this is a good thing for them but a bad thing for savers and pension funds. Funnily enough I just came across a quote by Keynes about this very issue.
  7. Just happened upon this quote "By a continuous process of inflation, governments can confiscate, secretly and unobserved, an important part of the wealth of their citizens. By this method, they not only confiscate, but they confiscate arbitrarily; and while the process impoverishes many, it actually enriches some.... The process engages all of the hidden forces of economic law on the side of destruction, and does it in a manner that not one man in a million can diagnose." John Maynard Keynes Economic Consequences of the Peace (1920) Anyway thought the quote was interesting given what is happening now.
  8. I didn't mention that aspect as I am fed up of being called a racist
  9. This policy is absolutely laughable. You can't get blood out of a stone and if the Government takes money off people via energy bills, they will just have less money to buy other stuff so other revenues will fall and so will consumer demand. We have reached the point where the public cannot be squeezed any further they just don't seem to have realised this yet.
  10. Not sure anyone could give you a definitive answer to that question TBH Coins are thousands of years old, but I would say capitalism did not really start up until the invention of fractional reserve banking which was started by Goldsmiths I believe. I understand that Jews were the originators in Europe as Christians were not allowed to lend money and charge interest. This is why Goldman Sachs are so hated on this forum. Greece and Rome never had an industrial revolution, probably because they had slaves and the industrial revolution which followed on from the agricultural revolution was probably caused by the shortage of labour following the Black Death. In the past I have had people here insisting that the State is only a few hundred years old, so this discussion could also run and run.
  11. Perhaps the dilema is that humans within a group will increase their chances of survival by co-operation within the group but the group as a whole increases its chances of survival by out competing other groups for scarce resources. Therefore humans are capable of co-operation at one level and entirely destructive behaviour at another.
  12. You could always just stick your fingers in your ears and go 'la, la, la' loudly Seriously though, are you really not interested as to why my opinions annoy you so much? because if you could work that out you would probably have learned something
  13. You have only got to look at what has happened in every country where the land has been stolen from those who previously owned it and although slavery is clearly undesirable and inefficient, at the end of the day, most people would rather be slaves than starve to death. We would really have to have an extremely long discussion about the origins of Feudalism in order to explain why it came about and then lasted for thousands of years.
  14. None of us has the answer. Feudalism lasted thousands of years and it will probably be hundreds of years at least before the whole of humanity finally comes up with some sort of long term, stable alternative. IMO some form of state is inevitable and Capitalism will never be abandoned because it was the force that finally usurped Feudalism. The ultimate solution will include Capitalism, Democracy and some level of Welfare State but Socialism is no different to Feudalism and will therefore not be part of the answer IMO.
  15. Not sure why my position causes so much anger and confusion TBH. History shows that some form of state is inevitable so whether I think this is a good or bad thing is irrelevant. Given that some form of state is inevitable, the argument is then what form should this state take? At the end of the day existence itself a form of slavery because if you don't get up every morning and fight for food and water you will perish and human groupings which inevitably lead to states are just a logical consequence of this fact of nature.
  16. Well, up to the point you asked the question all the responses were just ad hominem attacks Can't debate on that basis, particularly with 3 or 4 different people at the same time.
  17. Well as far as I remember when we had millions of council houses, people were required to pay rent although Labour councils didn't bother collecting it in order to buy votes hence Council Tax. In Socialist states, where everything is owned by the state, then surely the State itself becomes the Landowner so Socialism is no different to feudalism. Were ordinary people in the USSR any better off than they had been before Serfdom was abolished? I own my own house, therefore I do not pay rent to anyone, however, I have to pay council tax so even in our society the state is effectively my landlord.
  18. I fell off the wagon. And I honestly would like to know which of the facts I posted was an opinion as far as I can see all the responses have been entirely ad hominem no one has even attempted to actually address or refute the points I made. This is why I said earlier it is a waste of time posting Traktion is about the only person who actually bothers to think about and respond with a reasoned counter argument
  19. Sorry, but can't really keep up with all these posts - I had to go out and pick up my daughter from work. Lots of interesting questions though. States have existed for thousands of years and for most of that time the dominant force was feudalism. Then Capitalism evolved and the people in charge realised that if people were given freedom the wealth they generated would far exceed what they produced when they were essentially slaves. My position on the state has been entirely consistent, I believe some form of state is inevitable so what we are trying to find is the smallest, least intrusive state that is possible, as I believe this will result in people having the most freedom. My views on Socialism are derived entirely from studying what actually happened in the 20th Century which seems a reasonable basis on which to form an opinion.
  20. China is actually trying something unique. It abandoned the economic aspects of socialism when 60 million people starved during the 'Great Leap Forward', but it retained the one party state, secret police, labour camp aspects. So what it has become is a strange hybrid - one party Capitalism. The problem is, Capitalism requires giving people freedom and once this genie is let out of the bottle, it is pretty hard to control. China is heading for tremendous internal strife at some point in the next few decades IMO.
  21. The things I listed as facts are facts. Capitalism channels money to wealth creators - that's why it's called Capitalism Socialism takes capital away from people who possess it and gives it to people who don't. I understand why people are unhappy with the facts, because they tend to spoil the party. No doubt food production figures have risen every year in North Korea, but the fact is, everyone is starving.
  22. Apart from the fact it explains what has happened in the past, what is happening now and what is going to happen in the future. Perhaps we could get a room full of professors of economics to explain why they didn't expect the World economy to crash in 2007?
  23. I don't like death camps, secret police and slavery if that's what you mean and neither did the millions of people who risked death in the 20th Century attempting to escape from Socialist utopias to the evil capitalist west. And at the end of the day if Socialism worked, I would be all for it and so would everybody else.
  24. Which fact do you disagree with? Capitalism has been tried and that's why we now have jet airliners, computers etc, etc and produce vast amounts of food, energy and raw materials. This never happened before, why? And clearly capitalism concentrates capital in the hands of wealth creating individuals and as far as I understand it, the whole point of Socialism is to remove capital from people who have amassed it and give it to people who have failed to amass it. If you had 10k to invest would you lend it to Bill Gates or a tramp? The whole point of many posts on this thread is the idea that people with wealth have stolen it from the poor and that if the poor steal it back everyone will be rich. This isn't how Capitalism works, or what has actually happened throughout history.
  25. All the state needs to do is stop paying people more for doing nothing than they can earn by working. And unless the state does this then clearly the state is going to go bust The logic of this is inescapable.
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