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Posts posted by 24gray24

  1. 27 minutes ago, byron78 said:

    Right on. I mean, that Jesus was a right bar steward, wasn't he?

    Christianity. It'll never catch on...

    It's socialism that won't catch on. 

    Christianity... it's such a hodge podge of slave resistance, getting influence at the top, outright theft and violence,  professional victimhood and state sanctioned monopoly 

    That you have to wonder if it held back progress for a thousand years. And whose interests it really served. 

    Can't help feeling that one book only is never a good idea. 

    But hey ho, you can bet on religio socialism if you want. 

    I'd think environmentalist capitalism more likely.  

  2. 9 hours ago, byron78 said:

    THIS. A thousand times this!

    The same people who say to me "socialism doesn't work because INSERT REASON" have never said to me "capitalism doesn't work because INSERT ONE OF THE MANY THOUSANDS OF FAILINGS CAPITALISM CURRENTLY HAS".

    It's not a binary thing. We don't have to bin the whole thing off when something goes wonky. We just need to restore balance and competence where possible.



    Socialism is a non starter for the future. It's a failed philosophy primarily associated with dictatorships. 

    While capitalism has made the world we live in. 

    The young will pick something new as an alternative. They'll have to face the decline in raw materials, wars over what remains, a bronze age collapse possibly, rising sea levels, desertification. 

    The idiotic mantra that all men are equal won't accomplish anything. It never does. 


  3. 5 minutes ago, Confusion of VIs said:

    The GFA requires reunification to be the settled will of the people on both sides of the border before a referendum is held. Given the demographics of NI that is probably 10-15yrs away. 

    Hopefully by then NI should have been able to take advantage of its membership of both the single market and GB to improve its economic position.

    Given their age profile a lot will have passed on by the time any referendum result is implemented. The remainder will have them option of moving back to whatever is left of the GB if life in a united Ireland really is intolerable


    Majority catholic could be this year. 

    Not in 15-20 years. 

  4. Just now, yelims said:

    Neh it’s ok you guys keep spending 10-12 billion a year to support the place,

    while we enjoy the benefits and wait for die hard orange Dutch royalty worshippers  from 17th century to die out and newer generations realise they have more opportunities in Eu than post Brexit uk

    Now you're pretending! 

    You'd have to vote for a united ireland and we both know it. 

    And no one has a solution for the undigestible Protestants. .. 

    2 minutes ago, dugsbody said:

    Maybe you could learn to live with rejoiners? Do you remember, prior to us voting to leave the EU, we had europhobes who made up lies about the EU for 40 years until they got their way?  (*)

    I'd say, you should probably get used to being on the other side to that.

    (*) Just as an interesting note, they haven't stopped now that we've left.

    If this whole thread was brexiters, I'd argue remainer to get a bit of balance. 

    Otherwise it becomes an echo chamber. 

    Brexiters go on holiday to Spain for example, but you'd never know it from this thread. 

    It tends to hare off into bitter prophesies of doom, and yearning for it. 

  5. 1 hour ago, IMHAL said:

    I thought capitalism is about realising identifiable opportunities...not living in the hope that some unicron appears.

    Do you really have any clue what capitalism is? It most certainly isn't about destroying your income base and hoping that something comes along to replace it.

    Thanks for that...the roller coaster down to poverty.

    And fishing and farming and banking and and and what ever else seems to be in the path of the jugernaut to poverty.

    You don't seem to have an understanding of economics... that's probably why you think Brexit is a good idea.


    Screaming at the me isn't going to change anything. 

    The unicorn you're chasing is rejoining the EU on worse terms. 

    It isn't going to happen.

    Can't you live with it? 

  6. 56 minutes ago, IMHAL said:

    LOL🤣. Especially when the opportunities are far and few inbetween.

    As an aside. @KZB is good at counting the costs of EU membership but useless at acknowledging the benefits...which are becoming increasingly obvious...because they are now becoming losses. What is being registered are the real losses of leaving the EU....it's always useful to know what you have lost...just as it is useful to know what you have traded for those losses...which is none too obvious. 

    By that logic we might as well hit the self destruct button and totally colapse the economy...'because we can't say what the value will be of what replaces it'

    Actually, it is this totally imbecilic logic that underpins Brexit. 

    Or the fishing industry or the farming sector or the banking sector etc etc. Whch subversive foreign agent do you work for again?

    Hooray, you get it - but \/ 'life will go on'. Whoopy doo..as it does in the poorer countries...that must be the opportunity that you are talking about....we can all be poorer....what a magnificant opportunity that is.

    But the people who rely on trade to our biggest customer will miss their jobs, salary and ability to provide for their family. I guess they can be thankful to Brexit for 'this opportunity'.

    Try and get a grip on capitalism and tory government. 

    You can't get off this roller coaster. 

    You'll manage somehow without Debenhams...  

  7. 6 minutes ago, slawek said:

    You still don't understand. Brussels is just a tool, the decisions are made by members. It is up to them what will happen. 

     As long as Germany has control of its own money, Brussels is thwarted. 

    So what if 20 members want to spend germany's money on this that or the other? 

    But... if they can get agreement to annual transfer payments to the south...

    5 minutes ago, slawek said:


    Brexit will be reversed because joining the EU is the biggest Brexit opportunity. 

    We'll see. 

    I suspect you'll be totting up losses in the Europe column as well soon enough. 

    There's a way the game of tit for tat (or beggar thy neighbour) develops it's own momentum. 

  8. 48 minutes ago, slawek said:

    So far

    banks moving 1 trillion of assets - 20bln/pa

    10k high paid city jobs lost - 5bln/pa

    City losing trade in shares and IR derivatives - 5-10bln/pa

    1 mln immigrants leaving - 20bln/pa

    exports of goods to the EU down 20% - 40bln/pa

    cost of Brexit red tape - 15bln/pa

    exports of services to the EU down - ????


    Treasury estimate 6% hit to GDP, that 120bln/pa. They were right.

    Costs are easier to count than opportunities. 

    Letting Debenham go bust cost x jobs and y millions. And no one can say what the value will be of what replaces it yet. 

    But that is no reason to save Debenhams.

    Brexit isn't going to be reversed. It's going to go on and get more and more divergent. Losses in your column will continue to mount until trade is a fraction of what it was.

    Yet life will go on. And few will miss Debenhams or Brussels.   

  9. 17 minutes ago, slawek said:

    It was/is/will be up to the member states (including Germany) what will happen with the EU.

    It is the same with California money in the US or London in the UK.  

    New agreements can be made at any time.  

    The eu wants transfer payments every year and Germany doesn't.  That is the current position. 

    That can be changed, in a crisis. 

    We'll have to see how this Brussels ambition plays out. 

  10. Just now, slawek said:

    It would require a better control how money are spent. The EU is just creating a force to prosecute corruption. People living in countries with high corruption will welcome the move as they are fed up with it.

    Federal taxes? Federal spending?. A coalition of the feckless deciding how to spend germany's money? 

    My guess is Germany would rather let the south go bust and depopulate if it were not for fear of revolution.  

    So the Brussels dream of a fully federal state might come to nothing. 

  11. 18 minutes ago, Confusion of VIs said:

    And let's not forget still peanuts compared to the cost of leaving the EU. 

    It won't be peanuts. 

    13 minutes ago, slawek said:

    As for now the plan is financially sound. Germany is against fiscal transfers and they will resist going that way at least for now. So your scenario is possible but not given. 

    Personally i think there should be more fiscal transfers.  The EU should become a full federal state. 

     the EU becomes will have to become responsible for all the nation states debts in a federal state. 

    To do that they have to stop places like italy spending money. 

    So you end up with a remote bureaucracy spending money and handing you the bill. 

    And the end of variety and accountability.  

    Brussels becoming like Washington. 

    It's no panacea. 

    To make any system work, you have to stop the parasites at the top sponging ever increasing amounts. Fiddling about with constitutions is often a red herring.  

  12. 12 hours ago, slawek said:

    This 42% increase was an estimate based on early budget proposal from June 2020. There was a lot haggling since then.

    As for the guarantee, roughly a half of the money from bond issuance will be distributed as loans another half as grants. So in theory the EU only need a half money to pay the bonds at the maturity. The repayment will take over 30y starting from 2028, so that will around 13bln per year, a few percent of their annual budget.The EU has proposals how to increase their funding sources using carbon border adjustment mechanism and the Emissions Trading System and a digital levy. Other potential  future sources are a Financial Transaction Tax, a financial contribution linked to the corporate sector or a new common
    corporate tax base.


    Come on, get real. 

    Firstly it's the start of a wedge. Start small get bigger. 

    Secondly those "loans" won't be paid. 

    What this really is, is the beginning of perpetual transfer payments from North to south. (In the same way uk has perpetual transfer payments to scotland)

    Given the alternative of the south going bankrupt and depopulating, it's not really surprising. 

    But let's not kid ourselves it's going to be small. 

  13. 22 minutes ago, byron78 said:

    The next few generations of kids will surely go socialist? Probably far more radical than weirdie beardie was too.

    Why wouldn't they? 

    Because socialism doesn't work, and the young know it. 

    The young  often like what annoys their parents most. 

    Doing as little work as possible and claiming they're saving the planet, while living at home possibly? 

    Or refusing to work in paye and refusing to save in fiat? 

    Getting religious? 

    Voting green and living crusty?

    Voting for Sharia law and maximising Sharia immigrants? 

    Liking psalm music?

    Getting pregnant at 17. 

    Leaving school at 16. 

    Just list everything sinister and you're half way there. 

    Nationalistic socialism?

  14. On 18/06/2021 at 09:53, Si1 said:

    The govt boondoggles are what made it. It was never a free market. There was never the implicit diligence of a free market. Never buy leasehold. Even Fergus said that.

    Get real. It was developers having cosy relations with building inspectors in a lightly regulated free market. 

    And this scandal is how the free market works. 

    It's not the government's job to subsidise the market.  

  15. 25 minutes ago, yelims said:

    UK doesn’t have jus soli laws, being born in uk doesn’t entitle a child to citizenship (subjecthood?)

    Anyways I was pointing out that the irony of English Brexiteers moaning about immigration while cheering on a squad made of immigrants is very strong.


    But they're not immigrants. 

    It's just propaganda. 

    Besides, you're not even having to put up with it...  thank God we're still in lockdown is all I can say.  

  16. 1 hour ago, debtlessmanc said:

    just google "islam and socialism" and have a read, the oxford centre for islamic studies says this

    "Islam and socialist philosophy have certain commonalities. Both are universalist and, in principle, appeal to all mankind. Both oppose racism and the supposition of any inherent inequality between human groups. Islam, like socialism, emphasises the objectives of social justice and the eradication of gross economic disparities. Justice and fairness play a key role in Islamic theology, and charity (zakāt), the obligation to spend a fixed proportion of wealth on the poor, is one of the five pillars of Islam. Islamic sharīʿah explicitly prohibits ribā (interest), an inherent feature of the capitalist accumulation process. "

    As they say Islam accepts the need to support the poor via a form odf taxation and explicitly consider social justice. Islam is also explicitly political in its aspiration. I kind of thought you would know this stuff.

    if it's a socialist paradise you should get shot for being a reactionary and if it's a Muslim paradise you should get shot for being an atheist. 

    Can't see lefties  being compatible with muslims. 

    Conservatives on the other hand... Church and state, nice and authoritarian: they're natural bedfellows.  

  17. 7 hours ago, pig said:

    Tendentious  illogical rubbish.

    The world is what we make it + what @slaweksaid  :)


    Sounds impressive but what does it mean?

    In a world with many competing powers.

    Does it mean the EU makes the rules?

    6 hours ago, pig said:

    But is the main point that Leavers are clinging on to the concept of big bad Germany and feeble Britains need to run away from it ?

    Uh... no. 

    Leavers are watching the football. 

    And if they did have any thoughts on European history, it would stretch no further than wondering why none of the rabid lefties talk about imperialist aggression by russia.

    But mostly they'd want to know about boris' great grandma being a circassian sex slave bought in a market, and can they get a pic. 

    And singing 100 german bombers in the air...


  18. On 28/06/2021 at 10:00, Roman Roady said:

    There is no "fair" with his sort.

    He has imposed these rules on the plebs and the least he can do is follow them himself. Yes I have no doubt he has been a busy little bee over the past 15 months or so but that is not an excuse for his arrogant and stupid behavior.

    No one made him run for office.

    This is not some blunt middle manager or even and MD...this is a Secretary of State and definitely should do better on many levels.


    Next its his constituents who will want a word I am sure...West Suffolk I believe. I do not think that the good people of Haverhill and Bury st Edmunds will be too impressed.


    Could this end in a forced by-election?

    What hypocrites these self righteous do Gooders are.

    They break the rules themselves then get all self righteous when someone else does less. 

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