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24gray24

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Posts posted by 24gray24

  1. On 12/07/2021 at 13:52, spyguy said:

    No,.

    There were no BL factories abroad.

    I cant think of any 1970s UK company that had much of a footprint abroad.

     

     

    The money was leaving. 

    It became really visible in 1980 when the machinery was just being auctioned and shipped to the far east. Fortunes were made while 3 million went onto the dole. 

     I don't believe it wasn't planned earlier; no investment for so many years until england looked run down. Couldn't be chance. The money was leaving! 

    It was socialism driving it, and workers striking, and management  trying only to have a class system. The shareholders just ran it all down while they pursued better opportunities elsewhere. 

  2. 2 hours ago, coypondboy said:

    Looks like those extra fire engineers are clearing the EWS1backlog in London with awful consequences for those affected, felt sorry for the critical care nurse who only bought last year she should be suing her conveyancing solicitor for not spotting this in the management pack.

    https://www.standard.co.uk/news/london/cladding-scandal-waking-watch-london-b945553.html#

    Fire engineers have an incentive to assess cautiously now. 

  3. 22 hours ago, 17clarence said:

    That's ********.

    My father in law worked in a big factory for 40 years, in the 70's and early 80's he told me if they wanted an easy day they'd sabotage the line, then go to the canteen while the engineers tried to work out what went wrong.

     

    Both workers and management were to blame. Also government for ever higher taxes . 

     If companies made any profit, the shareholders just pocketed it. There was no investment in machinery. 

    I suspect money was already being siphoned towards countries with cheaper labour. It was the start of it. 

    Factories here were just being run down then closed it turned out in the 80's. But it looked like that was pre planned in the 19 70's with everything left to run down and no investment. 

  4. On 26/06/2021 at 19:52, nothernsoul said:

    Levelling up sounds great. "We arnt those like those envious socialists who want to drag everyone down to the same level, no, we want to lift those at the bottom up". The problem is politics doesnt usually work like that. Even if we arnt talking about redistribution through traditional taxation of income, for levelling up to take place the tories would have to tackle imbalances in generational power, which I doubt they will do. That means changing a system that is rigged to favour those that already own assets against those that dont. Deliberately propping up prices so nobody new can get in on the game. A society that rewards rent seeking over working. Problem is, if they did that, they would lose most of their core vote and and the property developers and the like who fund the party would stop doing so. 

    boris may go downhill faster than anyone imagines now. 

    Levelling up is what people want. So the Tories pretend that's their mission.

    But they're the opposite really, rent seekers as you say. 

    At some point people will switch again. But I'm not sure it will be to Labour.  

     

  5. 15 hours ago, pig said:

    Yes 'they' are, 'they' meaning those who actively mispresent or perversely bend truth ARE invested in bullsh1t. I mean by definition.

    I understand the disappointment if something you believe is not true, surely we've all experienced this to a certain extent.

    For example many have either tried to or at least seen friends try to make a doomed relationship work. It can be really painful but in the end, with the exception of the psycho stalkers, most prefer to grapple with reality.

    But the repetitive tendentious claptrap I've seen from many leavers on here is off on another scale. Notwithstanding any trolls I wonder is this normal ? Is this actually what people are like ? And if so what a fecking nightmare way to live.

    OK so this is a different 'they'. This is ordinary people the tendentious leaver will claim to be the voice of.

    'They' will have a whole jumble of issues. Some genuine issues that need to be addressed, some nasty stuff the usual suspects try to sneak in there. You know, like ordinary people.

    While the preference will often be to reduce them down to 'the White Working (male) Class'  in reality it will be all sorts of people, many of whom can speak for themselves and can do a fecking better job of it than any pretentious Leaver.

    I think there is some truth in this - remainers won the argument and lost the vote. So while its important to call out the bullsh1t  I often think how much mileage really is there to 'keep on winning' the argument ? If we limit it to the 'tendentious' Leavers, isn't it important to understand what is it exactly that would make them prefer to accept blatant bullsh1t ?

    For example I would say whatever you think of him Blair was a scarily competent politician and PM. In contrast Johnson is a hopelessly incompetent disaster - or worse. But surely that means they both shared something else quite crucial that has little to do with 'competence' or 'being right' ?

    Yes this is rubbish.

    Well look, over half the country are angry the Brexit lie followed by an incompetent PM was foisted on the country with some  quite tangibly nasty results. But I don't think thats what you mean by your populist threat.

    Not that its not real - we've seen where that stupidity leads to in the US.

    Oh well, you'll footle around declaring you've won the argument for another 5 years then. 

    And voting labour. 

  6. 16 hours ago, Staffsknot said:

    Well the original contributors to Ireland's independence movement crossed religious devide, it was mainly against landlord and overseas government + feeling hard done to.

    Religious divisions came about due to the fear of what would come next when independence looked possible. Several prominant independence folks were not Catholics.

    Now if you think every protestant is a dyed in the wool UDF wannabe then sadly you're wrong and those that aren't are more interested in opportunities, jobs, ability to conduct business, etc...

    Loyalist groups are peeved and so are the normal protestants which is some achievement. If someone offers the latter better opportunities don't think they'll turn it down for a march and 'to be part of Britain'

    You're voting for union. Given your nationalist sympathies it's an offer you cannot refuse. 

    But what I keep pointing out to you and what you keep ducking is: then what? 

    You and I both know northern Ireland is a poisoned chalice. And we also both know the Tories are evil enough to land you with it. 

    So your guess is a border poll will never happen and if it does all will be well?

    Mine is that the Tories are capable of calling one in the hope of passing the whole problem off to you. 

    Are we that far apart really? Our views on the tory party are pretty much the same; and that's about all you need to draw the conclusion. 

     

  7. 7 hours ago, pig said:

    I've been asking this for ages. At the end of the day they are real people (in theory, ok some are trolls) who are presumably trying live in reality like the rest of us so whats with the perpetual, deliberate,  truth bending, willing credulity ? 

    What kind of way to live is that ?

    They're not living like that. 

    They're living their lives and telling the political classes to go right off. 

    The bitter remainers are chasing their tails trying to make economic arguments, European arguments etc. 

    Brexiters never hated Europe or business, so they're barking up the wrong tree. 

    I might be wrong, and remember I'm only one voice, but I think Brexit is a warning shot against the status quo. 

    People are fed up with it. 

    And if the ptb don't take the hint, it will get more virulent. 

  8. 3 hours ago, jonb2 said:

    You're having a giraffe! What revolt?

    The same people are still running things who were running things 10 years ago. A bunch of Etonians lying down and opening their legs for their climate-denying, money-obsessed, self-serving billionaire Johns.

    How's the levelling up going?

    What's changed? We're still up sh*t creak without an Ork. Show don't tell.

    Time will tell. 

  9. 18 hours ago, Si1 said:

    There are lots of flats for sale. I suspect it will affect demand badly on next rung up houses. It's hard to tell.

    I'm extremely sceptical about the claims made for bomad. 

    I've come across bomad's that are installing their children in the flats to pay the mortgage as tenants. 

    Or asking the deposit back when they sell. 

    It's often just an investment into property because the bank is paying nothing. And they suspect inflation is coming. 

    And some are doing it in anticipation of care home fees. 

    Directly something comes along that offers real returns, my guess is they will all stop at once. 

    So much for the claims about early inheritance. 

  10. 40 minutes ago, slawek said:

    It is still a voice from the NI representing the majority.

    My post was in relation to a Leaver post which was plainly false. Nothing to do with Remainers so it couldn't be your d).

    Making up stuff is a strange way to revolt against the status quo. Unlikely your e) then.

    Shamelessly one sided then.  Let's have a border poll since you're calling a majority. 

    D) begging the question then. 

    E) you don't have a better one. Unless you think that a to c explained something.

  11. 4 minutes ago, slawek said:

    On the subject of Frost. It is refreshing to hear what NI thinks of him and NIP.

     

     changing catholic vs protestant feuding into catholic hegemony requires a large amount of selective propaganda. 

    This is a nice example. 

     

    3 minutes ago, slawek said:

    Possibilities

    a) a debating tactic which went too far

    b) a reflective riposte when you run out of arguments  

    c) living in a fantasy

    D) none of the above. It's just the remainer echo chamber again. 

    May I suggest: e) it's a sign of revolt against the status quo. 

  12. 16 minutes ago, byron78 said:

    Sorry for the split reply. I'm still not great at these things.

    I think you're spot on about Christainity. 

    Our money is really from slave trading (I mean, my families, not the collective!) and slaves were definitely converted to Christianity ASAP. For exactly the same reasons the feudal land barons had embraced the afterlife:

    "Work your nuts off for me for absolutely sod all in this life,  but know you will die a Christian and reap the rewards of heaven."

    Socialism, or at least the concept of equal rights that came from the Bible, is ironically what saw the sea change in slaving and the thing start to crumble (not a particularly nice subject, and I understand some might be offended by my past. All I'm honestly trying to do now is learn from it).

    Our money isn't from slave ownership. 

    You had to be rich to own a slave. 7 horses. Most families had 2 horses if they were lucky, like 2 cars today. 

    And socialism is decades after the slave trade. 

    There's a complete list of everyone who owned slaves in 1807. If your name isn't on it, you didn't own any. And that's about 99% of the population. 

    Progress came from low taxes, good banking, inventions and inventors getting rich. 

    Socialism just raises taxes till it kills all that off. 

    When some do gooder tells you he wants you to compensate him for having slaves, just point out gently that he's the one with slave owners blood in his veins not you. And your family was too damn poor to own any. 

  13. 4 minutes ago, slawek said:

    It didn't happen between north and south in the UK. There is some level of support that creates an equilibrium.  

    The money must be spent wisely, not just on hands out but on improving infrastructure, education etc so that those regions can support themselves. Technology can help, remote working allowed people to move out from business centers. 

    The north got the dole. But not much else. It annoyed the Tories that it didn't depopulate. 

    I'm not sure governments can afford to do that now long term. The debts are so much bigger and so are the failing areas. Not enough germans to pay for the south every year. (Thatcher used the revenue from oil). 

    And how do you fix italy? It's not really infrastructure. It's government and banks and tax avoidance and a whole culture of corruption. And a masterful resistance to change. And the baleful effect of the euro on a country that likes to devalue its currency by overspending. 

    I just can't see Brussels fixing it easily or quickly when even the judges are complicit. 

  14. 27 minutes ago, byron78 said:

    Right on. I mean, that Jesus was a right bar steward, wasn't he?

    Christianity. It'll never catch on...

    It's socialism that won't catch on. 

    Christianity... it's such a hodge podge of slave resistance, getting influence at the top, outright theft and violence,  professional victimhood and state sanctioned monopoly 

    That you have to wonder if it held back progress for a thousand years. And whose interests it really served. 

    Can't help feeling that one book only is never a good idea. 

    But hey ho, you can bet on religio socialism if you want. 

    I'd think environmentalist capitalism more likely.  

  15. 9 hours ago, byron78 said:

    THIS. A thousand times this!

    The same people who say to me "socialism doesn't work because INSERT REASON" have never said to me "capitalism doesn't work because INSERT ONE OF THE MANY THOUSANDS OF FAILINGS CAPITALISM CURRENTLY HAS".

    It's not a binary thing. We don't have to bin the whole thing off when something goes wonky. We just need to restore balance and competence where possible.

     

     

    Socialism is a non starter for the future. It's a failed philosophy primarily associated with dictatorships. 

    While capitalism has made the world we live in. 

    The young will pick something new as an alternative. They'll have to face the decline in raw materials, wars over what remains, a bronze age collapse possibly, rising sea levels, desertification. 

    The idiotic mantra that all men are equal won't accomplish anything. It never does. 

     

  16. 5 minutes ago, Confusion of VIs said:

    The GFA requires reunification to be the settled will of the people on both sides of the border before a referendum is held. Given the demographics of NI that is probably 10-15yrs away. 

    Hopefully by then NI should have been able to take advantage of its membership of both the single market and GB to improve its economic position.

    Given their age profile a lot will have passed on by the time any referendum result is implemented. The remainder will have them option of moving back to whatever is left of the GB if life in a united Ireland really is intolerable

     

    Majority catholic could be this year. 

    Not in 15-20 years. 

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