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Posts posted by kev-all-in

  1. Goves job is to basically say to the tory heartlands in the shires and home counties that he'll do something to stop all those beastly new planning regs allowing new houses in their backyard.....

    ...whilst simultaneously saying to younger voters and those not on the ladder he'll get millions of houses built and do something about those beastly planning regs that is preventing it.....

    ...any year now.

    With a completely straight face,

    Whilst actually doing bugger all.

    Much like that lovely Grant Shapps chap did in fact, and every housing minister for the last 20 years!

  2. I was struck by the admission that our entire political system is completely shambolic and not fit for purpose. 

    Crucial life and death decisions and 'war time' policy decided informally by largely unelected 'advisors' and civil servants behind closed doors. Not even discussed in cabinet let alone parliament. No. 10 apparently a total mess. No accountability by design and totally incompetent people in charge of massive projects. 

    Mostly pathetic questions by the committee, just let DC answer whatever he wanted. I still have no idea what dc was doing in No 10? Adviser that bj fundamentally disagreed with and didn't listen to?

    Supposedly 'worked on procurement' - what work? Fast tracking donors?? They just glossed over anything awkward. Even reluctant to mention Barnard Castle until the end, letting him waffle on about Durham. 

    Hancock is apparently a liar, but no one asked specifically what lies, and just a vague 'I presume u have some evidence' without asking what it is. They hardly questioned or challenged anything he said. Honestly Judge Judy would have done a 10x better job!

    The whole polictal system stinks and is completely broken top to bottom, and it just seems to get worse and worse.

  3. 3 hours ago, Electricity said:


    I dont think an 'oh shit' moment is likely

    interest rates are at record lows a landlord who is remortgaging from a fix 2-3-5 years ago will very likely find he is going to get a cheaper mortgage. Going from a 4% mortgage to a 2.5% mortgage is quite the bonus and will soften some if not all of the additional taxation burden. There are also some landlords who took out BOE tracker + 0.1% or similar mortgages fixed for the life of the mortgage (often 25 years) those people have so little interest to pay that S24 virtually doesn't impact them at all.

    More importantly, from my understanding, S24 does not push landlords into a negative cash-flow position it just reduces their profits

    The BTL market is however much slower than it was 2 years ago primarily due to the high stamp duty charged on additional homes. So there does not need to be a mass panic which wont happen imo, there will just be a period of 20 years where few additional landlords buy in an the existing landlords sell up slowly as they die or get divorced or just sell up due to retirement etc

    As a guess by 2030 we will have 3 million additional new builds. Private rental will be roughly the same at about 5.5 million homes, social rental roughly the same, and ownership up by about 3 million homes. That should take ownership up towards 68% which is near its all time high reached in ~2004

    I think quite a few BTL landlords are on 2 / 3 year 'teaser' mortgage rates, and some are in for a nasty surprise when they go to roll it on to another low rate 2 year deal and find that suddenly their whole portfolio is assessed and they no longer qualify for any of the low rate deals. And they no longer meet the t+c's of their current deal either so are stuck on the crappy SVR rate sweating their nuts off as their mortgage costs have increased massively, just as s24 starts to bite. :D:D:D


  4. I don't really get what the nub of this story is, what are uber refusing to do? Surely they don't object to the people driving young women around cities being properly vetted and checked out? It's in their interest to weed out potentially dangerous drivers to protect their reputation? (Whether they 'employ' them or not they represent their brand) They must have to comply with similar conditions and requirements in every city they operate in , so what's different about London?

    Why isn't anyone who picks up passengers for hire and reward anywhere in the U.K. required to have a simple face to face check of their licence, correct insurance, criminal record, immigration status, ability to speak some basic English and maybe a quick health check at the doctors before they are issued with an appropriate licence to carry passengers? TBH I assumed this was pretty much already the case. You have to do most of this to drive a HGV or be a taxi driver so I can't see the problem. Massive fines and vehicle confiscated for anyone unlicensed. (I don't doubt it would be overpriced and over complicated by the authorities though)

    Why would an uber driver rape or assault their passengers? Surely your exact location, who you picked up, the route etc is all logged and recorded and totally traceable back to the driver? Even if they switched off their phone they'd have to account for that. Why don't uber insist all drivers install cameras in their cars - one dash cam and one showing inside the car?

    There seems to be more to this than meets the eye, is how uber operate in London different from other major cities around the world? Surely all these problems have been solved multiple times!?


  5. 2 hours ago, Gemma Rose said:


    Nice find! Delicious bear feast there...

    No more buy-to-let Britain: UK tumbles down Europe's top places for property investing as crackdown bites

    • UK drops ten places in the best locations in Europe to invest in property
    • High house prices already meant it was only in 15th place, now it is 25th
    • Best place to invest in property for yields is Ireland, followed by Malta :ph34r::P

    "British landlords have seen average yields plummet 19 per cent over the past year following an onslaught of tax changes, leaving the UK crashing 10 places in Europe's buy-to-let ranks."

    "It follows 18 months of relentless change for British landlords who have had to absorb a 3 per cent stamp duty surcharge on all new property purchases since April last year and began to see their tax relief on buy-to-let mortgage interest cut back this April.

    Mortgage lenders have simultaneously cracked down, demanding more rent to cover buy-to-let mortgage payments at the start of this year while landlords with four or more properties will find it tougher to get finance from the start of next month. "



  6. From the Beeb today...

    Aberdeen 'worst hit' by hard Brexit, experts predict

    Aberdeen could be the city worst hit by falling economic output due to a "hard" Brexit, experts have predicted.

    A new report from the Centre for Cities and the Centre for Economic Performance at the London School of Economics, said all cities would see a fall in output due to increasing trade costs.

    Aberdeen and Edinburgh were both ranked among the ten most affected cities.


  7. Estate agents' profits plunge as housing market slows


    Two of the country's estate agent chains have posted slumping profits in the face of a slowing housing market.

    London-focused estate agent Foxtons saw profits plunge 64% in the first six months of this year.

    Another estate agent, Countrywide, also saw profits tumble, by 98% in its case. The firm said it would not pay a dividend.

    Foxtons' head said demand had slowed in the face of "unprecedented economic and political uncertainty".

    Countrywide said house sales exchanges were down 20%, 24% in London.


    Wow. Cuntywide profits down 98% ! Holy crap.

  8. 11 hours ago, Ash4781 said:


    From the BBC article. I joined pre crash 1. I planned to add in the various interventions to the market. 

    Apologies if I missed a thread on this, but how come there was such a divergence between Halifax and NW in 2015/16 when they were so closely correlated before?

    More exposure to the London megabubblefroth? Can we expect a corresponding over correction for Halifax figures?

    Here's hoping!


  9. Great news! And prominently on both bbc news website and radio 6music news all afternoon - nice?

    I hadn't realised just how bad the monthly figures had been for 2017 - not crash cruise speed (Great blast from the past there!) yet but sentiment is definitely turning negative at last.

    That said prob b up 0.9% next month whilst NW is down a bit - as someone said def not all manipulated and coordinated!?


  10. As per usual this story has the feel of being very carefully managed and massaged, there's so many gaping holes and unanswered questions.

    Very interesting post re. The electrical surges a few years ago - not heard that anywhere in the news. Makes you wonder if multiple small fires started simultaneously could have been exacerbated by crap flammable cladding and plastic windows. Maybe the other towers that were evacuated had similar power supply concerns? 

    The poor people effected are going to get very frustrated and angry soon - I can see how the fire + incompetent under and then over reaction + sense of a cover up would be ripe conditions for a summer of demos and then inevitable riots.

    I see the beeb are saying a 'total of 79 people died' - I thought they'd said it would take weeks to know an accurate estimate but we'll never really know for sure? 


  11. I've been waiting for a post pcp used car / bike bonanza for years now, but it hasn't happened. (Yet)

    I was thinking about how few new interesting / performance cars I'd actually want to run once they're 3-4+ years old and the list is pretty short. The complexity of modern cars, the in built obsolescence really puts me off - turbos, dpf and emissions crap, active suspension, sensors and ecu's to control it all etc etc. You're likely tied to main dealers to diagnose and repair them and eye wateringly expensive parts, or specialists miles away.

    Even run of the mill 'sensible' cars are mostly turbo diesels - how popular are these going to be in 5yrs with potential £2k repair bills around the corner. A mate at work recently scrapped a clean 6yr old Mazda estate when the engine management / dpf shat itself for the 2nd time, mazda dealer pretty much shrugged and wouldn't even commit to a quote to fix it. Same with these 1st gen electric/hybrids - who's gonna want a 7yr old plug in hybrid?

    I think maybe depreciation will be the bomb that blows up pcp.

  12. I couldn't understand the insane prices pwopertee was making at local auctions, I figured I was under estimating how cheaply the BTL crowd could fix up a renovation project, not really caring how good it was long as it was 'good enough for rental' (ie shyte).

    Then it suddenly dawned on me whilst going to local property auctions and the open house viewings etc that I wasn't just up against the BTLers - ie retired boomers etc but more the even more evil Trade / Builder BTLer. I started to notice how virtually everyone there was either a builder or some sort of trade.

    I've got several mates who are tradesmen / builders / property maintanence etc and without exception they are ALL balls deep in BTL, they all help each other out with cheap cash jobs or barter time - I'll 'do a quick skim' of plaster if you'll fit my boiler cheap, I've got a mate who owes me one, you do this I'll do that etc etc., they can also get most of the materials at trade price, or just use left overs from other jobs.

    Basically it's impossible to compete with these guys, they can renovate somewhere for literally a third of what it would cost me (even doing quite a bit myself), most have ridden the hpi wave adding loads of equity doing up their houses / adding extensions etc which I guess feeds their deposit cravings - whatever they never seem to have much cash...but manage to scrape it together somehow.

    That said the buiders and trades that don't get consumed in the BTL inferno will have LOADS of work sorting out basically 10-15yrs of basic neglect by most landlords in my experience - only ever responding to problems when they have to, using the cheapest materials and lowest priced 'craftsmen' around. Our housing stock is declining visibly, exacerbated by BTL rentier shortterm profit scumbags. Not too mention just how pathetically poorly built the new stuff is anyway, literally no one gives a toss long as its cheap and we can all go home / get down the pub early.

    Bring on the collapse. meh.

  13. From the beeb :

    The mass holidays business and especially selling hotel beds all over the world is a tough one. The margins are negligible. Often - as appears to be the case with Lowcost Holidays - the cash earned for future holidays was used to pay for people that were already away.

    So if there's a relatively sudden dip in confidence leading up to the Brexit referendum and then the pound plunges against the euro after the vote, that can be enough to tip the financial house of cards that some holiday companies have erected.

    So basically a PONZI scheme then!

    How can it be legal to trade openly in the UK like this? no ATOL protection :

    "The company was therefore not part of the UK's Atol scheme and the Balearic Islands authorities are responsible for the holiday protection arrangements for the company's customers.

    thanks UK regulators! pathetic as usual. Still I'm sure all the bosses walked away with massive payouts so that's OK.

  14. It is ridiculous that this anti-democratic ignore the result bullsh1t is gaining traction - as mentioned the treacherous bbc and msm are hijacking what should be a proud celebration and turning it into some sort of battle where the 'wrong' demographic triumphed over the 'better, more liberal, younger, more educated nicer' side - pathetic.

    It's shocking that in these crucial days we've got no one speaking positively for US - the majority of people. No leadership whatsoever and project fear is using that to their advantage without any challenge at all. Bogus petitions, voting breakdowns based on polls that got the result completely wrong anyway and shamefully biased 'analysis and reaction', not to mention bullying from the EU un rebuked.

    It's not surprising people are a bit shocked, but when the bad news from the EU starts flowing again, more financial uncertainty in Greece / Portugal / Spain etc , political chaos looming in France and Germany etc etc I confidently predict we'll breath a big sigh of relief and feel differently again. I bet if you just announced "ok, we're ignoring the result" people would feel exactly the same remourse for the post BREXIT future we'll have been denied - it's human nature.

    We need to get on with making BREXIT work, and part of that is getting a positive and confident narrative out there. I urge all other Brexiteers who don't feel regret to get out on social media etc and spread that message - I think positive vibes and reassurance would go a long way with others who feel under attack for being in the majority.

    Project fear and the propaganda war has gone into overdrive post result - shameful excuse for democracy really.

  15. This is spot on. Cameron was a twonk in the renegotiations, but the 27 gave him fark all. I honestly think they didn't consider a BREXIT credible. He tried his best to argue the case but he is so out of touch he didn't believe it was possible himself.

    For me the red line to any renegotiation is free movement. Yes it would be nice to have access to the common market. But not at the cost of free movement.

    I've been wondering about this.....it's going to be the sticking point I think, but what about if we play hardball for a while make the EU sweat a bit because ultimately they are more desparate to get free trade than we are, and then as a concession we state free movement of PEOPLE is a RED LINE for us - there is no way we can accept it end of.

    but...maybe we could consider free movement of LABOUR. ie if you (the worker) are (actually) working say 20hrs per week on average in a proper job paying taxes etc, and have a clean criminal record etc then fine come on in, and maybe become eligable for citizenship after 3+yrs working and contributing or something like that?? at which point you can qualify for some limited benefits and more importantly family resettlement rights etc.

    If you're hanging around the streets / sleeping rough / begging etc without working and paying an average of at least 20hrs worth of tax per week we can ask you to leave (nicely) and go home. As they will be working at least 20hrs a week no benefits (whatsoever) should be required. If they're working cash in hand at some dodgy car wash and not paying tax etc it doesn't count. If you get sent home because you no longer qualify for any reason you can't come back for say 5yrs no ifs or buts.

    So there is some qualification to coming in but it's much simpler than a points based system, they would have to be working and able to support themselves and hopefully not a drain on public funds. The citizenship bit could be exactly the same as non EU immigrants currently have to go through to qualify for them and their spouse. Only spouse and kids - no aunties / uncles / grand parents etc etc. It could even be back dated so anyone here 3+ yrs already qualifies, someone here 2 yrs would only need 1 more year etc.

    TBH something along those sort of lines was what it should have been all along but there you go, I think this would be a balanced way to go about things. We can set some criteria and have some control over quality, the job market will set the quantity automatically to those that can honestly support themselves.


  16. I do not care if he has a plan in place or not, I do not want that man as PM. He will split the UK more so than Cameron, just another posh boy who dreamt of power since he was in short trousers. I am pleading with the Tories please look again at David Davis, he is tough no nonsense politician with a sense of fairness, he will dish out tough love if he has to and can relate to a hard working businessman as well as a hard working man in the ghetto. And most importantly he is a Brexiter without having been to high profile.

    The man is perfect

    I disagree with this, does Davis even want the job? he doesn't really capture the imagination of ..... well anyone?? he's so completely grey and 'safe' I'm not convinced he's going to 'cut through' the bullsh1t and get serious reforms or even make his voice heard in the melee.
    I think BoJo is definitely the least worst option, and could maybe be the 21st century Churchill we desparately need - it could be perfect timing for him.
    His quirky qunitessential 'Britishness' makes him memorable and newsworthy - useful in a crowded global marketplace, he's also media savvy and pretty good at handing out soundbites and interviews etc to reporters. Promoting and advertising brand GB will be a more important function of whoever gets the job than ever going forward.
    I also quite like his physique and stature, I know it shouldn't matter but I think his imposing 'heavyweight' appearance does project power and have an impact on how people percieve him especially in other cultures - useful in potentially hostile negotiations ahead maybe.
    You also get the impression that he wouldn't be affraid to lightly intimidate the odd dinner guest or hold his own when getting grilled by Putin, Merkle or Trump - can you really say that of Davis? Boris gives me more confidence as a negotiator than Davis and that's really what we need at the moment.
    We're sailing into pirate and shark infested unknown waters and I think we need a strong leader with a big pair and some charisma to both control a mutinous crew and use their wits and good stratagy to outmanouvre our competitors - Boris could be custom designed for this.
    But I accept there are some big problems for Boris....
    Hate figure? - Approx half the country pretty much hate and blame him for BREXIT - are they prepared to grow up, move on and back him??
    can he unite the country? - Even amogst the Outers probably half love him and half pretty much hate him - is he too divisive??
    Loose cannon? - can he keep his cool and gob shut when needed??
    statesman? - will he be serious and sobre and act like a proper leader at all times even when he's bored / frustrated / provoked??
    Posh Trump? - does his strange similarity with Trump and 'poshness' alienate too many people before he's even spoken??
    Past? - does he have any skeletons still lurking in any cupboards anywhere??
    I don't think we can fluck around and get this wrong, we need to get the right man in place 1st time but it HAS to be someone we can all get behind as we need to get on, stick together and fight the world, not each other. I think Boris is the man but I doubt the country could bring themselves to support him properly which is a shame.
    I think TBH this crucial leadership contest will expose yet another broken aspect of our political system - surely we need a system that gives the public at least either some say on the candiates or a veto on the selection??
  17. I think you have seen our civil servants and it has to be said old smoothie Carney at their best. Cameron's speech and timetable 'constitutionally cleared' The Junker statement about haste just confirms how the British electorate chose the right path.

    I believe on the contrary re other nations jumping ship we are out first and with massive historic links to our commonwealth friends we will have first mover advantage for years. Other nations are minimum eighteen months away from a referendum let alone triggering article 50.There is a school of thought that this is brinkmanship and if we delay just slightly the challenger parties in next years German and French elections are already talking about putting a free trade bi lateral pledge with the UK in their manifestos thats what the unelected fascists of Brussels know and are frankly S***** themselves about.

    Whos markets blipped more yesterday ? and it was a blip despite all the left wing London spin. So the world thinks we will be okay.

    Dax down 6.8% FTSE 3.1%even the dow was down more. It's like people in a cell shouting you will regret making a break for freedom whilst the world cheers them on.

    Cheaper pound more exports? the only two countries who have anything to lose in Europe are France and Germany and they will be like Eva Braun and Hitler in the bunker of Brussels. We are the threat they fear resurgent car industry, financial services as strong as ever and cheaper big ticket exports. The media, software Blah Blah ,I reiterate they are S**** themselves

    I voted in because as a business owner my head ruled my heart for a second. I am proud leavers had more sense. I am one of six remainers I know who regret their lack of balls so another lie is that there are more leavers who regret their vote, I would suggest the true sentiment for leave was even larger

    This is going to be fun and exciting and thats why I liked old Carney's line we can take a shock ten times this and thats when it was all doom and gloom at 8am and then a casual we can stick the odd £250 billion in.

    The UK has changed the world damn good day for our country

    great post.

    We've got to hold our nerve - there's a reason all the suits in Brussells looked so angry and frustrated yesterday, and it's not hurt feelings. They are crapping themselves but have to 'maintain' a hardman act in order to try and keep their ragtag little possee together at all costs. They WANT us to feel scared, and don't think that the propaganda war finished with the vote - no way, it will go into overdrive now.

  18. Three possibilities come to mind:

    1. Cameron fully intended to stay on if he lost but in the event found it untenable.
    2. Cameron fully intended to stay on if he lost but in the event he thought I'll *uck them up.
    3. Cameron planned to leave his successors in a vacuum.

    None are worthy of a PM with 6 years under his belt.

    The fact that BiJove didn't have a contingency plan for this event knowing the calibre of their blue brothers is woeful.

    Cameron should have put the UK first and in his speech, thanked the electorate, outlined the procedure invoking Article 50, set the meeting at No. 10 for Monday and then spun 180.

    Yes that would've been better, it was a total mess really - everyone on both sides except Farage looked like they'd lost, it looked like we had no plan, no leadership and the mourning for the result at the BBC didn't help either.

    Strategically it looked p1ss poor to say the least.

    I'm guessing option 1 - They just all realised last minute there was no way it could work?? they must've seen some potential of this coming hence the hastily circulated letter just before the vote that Bojo signed. But it all does look a bit chaotic and cobbled together on the fly though, I don't think anyone really thought it would happen, but then thats bad / lazy planning - esp. in a 2 horse race!! and Cameron + Osbourne are culpable for that, it's such an important thing to get right that bugger1ng it up isn't acceptable and a sacking offence in itself.

    Where's wally osbourne? where's Teresa? - what role can they play in the future? I'm guessing there must be some amazing conversations amongst MP's etc going on all round the country this weekend, defections? splinter parties? all sorts of factions and allegiances being made and broken, I'm sure there's plenty of lobbying and schmoozing thrown in there too.

    Interesting times.

  19. When do the young ever get their own way politically? Tuition fees, housing costs, defined contribution pensions, removal of housing benefit for U25s, falling real wages, soaring car insurance costs etc etc.

    Sorry I should've been more clear - I meant getting their own way at home, school, university etc, many more under 25's are either living with parents or subsidised by them than ever before and I think that tends to shelter them from some harsh realities. Admittedly my sample size isn't huge but ancedotes I've seen / heard make me think many youngsters are experts at getting their way against long suffering parents - and this often goes on for much longer than it used to. I've got colleagues at work who are constantly running around for / organising the lives of their dependant adult 'children'.

    But I shouldn't generalise a whole generation and I accept that there are loads of free thinking independant minded young people who are rightly angry at being shat all over politcally for years and most definitely have not got their own way on anything of substance.

  20. Do you think the behaviour of a lot of Remainers since the vote came in is as much because they have had no time whatsoever to contemplate losing?

    How many of us (Brexiters) actually, genuinely, believed it was possible? I was expecting defeat (hoping for victory), I had already come to terms with it, that we'd be bullied into voting to stay. I was just happy after all these years to get our say and for me to be able to personally reject the EU.

    For me they're reacting like a toddler whose parents have finally stood up and said "No". They react by throwing another tantrum as they've never not got their way before..

    Yes, I do think this is part of it - it's literally a 'shock' to youngsters who are so used to getting their own way, the morally superior lefty metropolitan who is so positive they are right the concept of being in the minority just doesn't compute.

    I think the sudden resignation of Cameron, fall in the £ and potential break up of the UK were unexpected 'consequences' that very quickly made 'shit real' for a lot of people that hadn't considered OUT an even remote possibility.

    Added to that threats and hard man posturing from the EU with apparently no one even bothering to try and pretend running the country or giving an official response or rebuke on our behalf let alone any actual leadership it's hardly surprising remainers feel literally scared for the future.

    We really need our whole political system to regroup over the weekend and come back next week fighting HARD and enthusiastically for BREXIT, confidently countering EU nonsense with facts and a POSITIVE message of how much better off we will be (even if they don't really beleive it) - it's vital that we get a grip and at least put a face on, better yet embrace the change and make it work.

  21. Totally agree. Toynbe's article was disgraceful. I'm no supporter of Farrage - but to try to link the MP's death with a poster of refugees was slanderous. For one thing, Farrage has been one of the few politicians who has consistently said that genuine refugees should be admitted to the country. I remember him being one of the first politicians asking for Syrian refugees to be admitted.

    This is a popular revolt against the neo liberal elite. It goes across party lines. If we had stayed in the EU we would have had no control over the laws passed, no way of removing commissioners, no control over who lives here and with TTIP no control over multinationals at all. Add in the effects of automation and we were heading for a hollowed out state run for the benefit of a handful of rich old men.

    I understand the anxiety of people who's livelihoods rely on trade with EU countries, However I believe we are in a strong negotiating position right now. However much the EU elite wants to punish us to stop what they view as 'contagion', they would have to destroy the German car industry to do it. Their dilemma is that we buy 20% of all German cars produced, and the VW scandal has this industry already on the hook for multi billion dollar fines. Tariffs on what are already expensive cars would finish them off. Tit for tat tariffs also have a net benefit to our economy - we import far more from them than they do us. Junker may be desperate for article 50 to give less time for other nations to ditch the EU - but he seems to have forgotten that the EU commission is about to disappear for the holidays, and until Cameron is replace there isn't anyone on our side to negotiate with either.

    If I was a post brexit politician I would be doing the rounds on European tv and going on a charm offensive to the people of Europe rather than let the commission dictate the settlement. We many well see several other nations vote to leave the EU before we are actually out.

    In the short term there will be some volatility (although that doesn't seem to have been any where near as bad so far as the Remain group predicted - and the fall in the pound largely due to speculators getting burnt on calling the result incorrectly). Long term we get democratic control back, we delay or stop the corporate dictatorship via TTIP, we lower house prices, we reduce pressure on public services. We might even one day start to get pay rises back. There is also the ability for us to elect a Government that finally taxes multinationals fairly - this alone could bring in tens of billions. The icing on the cake would be to see some of the corrupt merchant bankers who have done so much to ruin our democracy depart our shores - or better still like Iceland end up in jail. The pitchforks are out.

    +1 great post - completely agree.

    We've got to keep our nerve and remember the propaganda and manipulation didn't stop now the ref is 'over' - if anything it will intensify and get harder to discern as opinions get scattered and more diffuse now the tight focus of 'in/out' has gone.

    I agree we should be looking to make the most of this window of opportunity over the summer to do some clever manouevering of our own, we would feel much stronger if a couple of other nations annouced refs too and give us some support. I just hope we've got the clever stratagists and negotiators we are going to need leading this....

    The EU badly misplayed their hand here, and we should remember their patronising intranigence in the 'negotiations' - if they had given just a little more it may well have swayed it. Now they have to try and look even harder to project a confident face to both their own citizens and the wider world - pretending they don't care...they'll make us pay / suffer (don't get any ideas anyone else....) it's really showing them up for the power hungry arrogant old fools they are and confirms we made the right call to reject this undemocratic incarnation of the EU - hopefully a more sensible version will emerge from the chaos eventually.

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