thehowler

Leaks coming out now, looks like Greek capitulation - even on pensions. Far left will break but I guess Tsipras has got enough support from the Yes parties to pass it. No glory in this for anyone. But Varoufakis emerges dignity intact - I'm no fan but I'll give him that.

Nothing in writing. Is Tsipras going to hack more than he was willing to do in the referendum proposal? Might be some more Zeus lightning bolt surprises yet...

It's a 6% wage rise every year for next five years - anathema to the global corp ghouls and proud Brit shopkeepers alike. I wonder if this is a way for the Tories to force the pay stats up every year? Wage rises have been limp/dead in the water since 2008 even with the lauded employment gains - politicos even talking about full employment again. As long as there's no recession - can we even have any now that GDP gains are so illusory/manipulated - the Tories will at last be able to boast of soaring wages.

How are Starbucks/Dominos/Debenhams going to pay people nine quid an hour to make coffee/fold pizza boxes/sell socks?

Guardian is saying the Greeks have until midnight on Thursday to put the written offer in - startling delay given the referendum was 3/4 days ago. What was the point of Tsipras spending all today gladhanding with the eurocrats - was it a demonstration of humility and acceptance of rage-release from the delegates, prior to winning their sympathy? Might have worked, given that entrance video. Must be a tacit understanding that they can restock the ATMs until the talks veer either way...

Only about 40 thousand US troops left in Germany. They've been cutting back on bases over last five years.

Guessing one of the finance ministers will leak the proposal this afternoon and we'll get to see whether the new deal is tougher/better than the one rejected in the referendum. Simplest way to fudge the debt would be to push back the repayment term into the late century - we might see some olympic-scale can kicking...

Too true, their tielessness is a symbol of resistance to the establishment. Just before he quit, Varoufakis got it down to a T-shirt for his interviews with the world press. Perhaps Tsipras should show up in a swimsuit for the Sunday morning showdown? He just took a verbal lashing from Verhofstadt in the chambers - the enough-already rage is coming out. Regards Obama getting involved, can't help feeling this is the Greeks leaking and spinning to Paul Mason and others to talk it up. Have to wait for a statement from the US...

Can't help thinking the new Greek finance guy looks like Mike from the Young Ones... HIs notes photographed on the way out, "no triumphalism" recorded in pencil, or is it a press spoof, can't really tell the difference any more.

If Tsipiras goes won't the remains of the govt be signing a deal with the "economic hit men"? I imagine the coalition would splinter and new elections but you're right, perhaps more desperate moves from the right to take control. No story, just a self-induced exasperation in the face of events and the quest for clarity. The IMF press release was a tipping point for me, an unhinging Zeus thunderbolt that prompted the post flurry. I'll clam a while.

Can EU taxpayers really carry the Greeks for the next 20 years? And if they lose the Euro, I can't see Greek politicos electing to participate in EU border controls, obligations, agreements and other diverse protocols. A crash is a crash.

The IMF pronouncement kicks opens the door for throwing Greece out of the EU. It's time to regroup.

Greece could become ungovernable. The problem has always been the gulf between the Greeks wanting to stay in the Euro and not wishing to accept punitive cuts and financial outrages. Syriza bridged this gulf by promising to renegogiate and heal the wounds of austerity, while also keeping the Greeks safe and secure inside the EU - as they still promise in the run up to the referendum. But it didn't work. The blue meanies are too big and nasty and Greece just owes too much money. It's time for a reimagining of the EU ideal.

Bankers not being honest...this is Varoufakis logic at work. They already have done...they've all got their €30K stashed in Germany or South Kensington. Because T and V have both stated (T only hinted) that they would step aside if they lose the ref. No finance minister, no PM, no party.

If it's YES there will be no Syriza to negotiate with. We'll get a technocrat govt within days. Massive losses? We've just seen the IMF come out and say Greece need THE SAME AGAIN from German taxpayers, on top of what they already owe. Merkel could sell a Grexit as saving her voters money...

The IMF announcement/projection was seen as a Greek endorsement by many, but I see it as pointing to the unimaginable, catastrophic scale of present and escalating debt. I now think Greece will be jettisoned, with T and V as the maverick scapegoats. Agree with the Goat, drachma incoming.

The ramifications of taking down the Greek banking system... What about the ramifications of keeping it going? Rough calculus I'm getting every single Greek down for about €30K.

So the IMF are saying another €60 Bill. And how much are the Greeks already down for? And remember, as Herr Schauble pointed out they've already had one debt haircut. There are only 11 million Greeks. How did they spend all these sodding euros? RK talks about the EU being viable - I'd say Greece is NOT VIABLE as an EU state. Maybe it's time to cut Greece loose.

Nobody knows, least of all AEP. I think it's all Emperor's New Clothes bluster, they aint got diddly...

Guess the offer to go back to the bail out terms bar a few "minor adjustments" might have been driven by imminent bank collapse. Look to what they do, and not what they say.

So why all the squirming from T today, and the letter he signed accepting terms of last bail out offer? Why another desperate last throw of the die instead of a dignified, serious bit of campaigning ahead of the referendum, that he called? At some point, the T and V apologists/boosters on this thread will have to accept that their various switches, wheezes, walk outs and bizarre announcements are not part of some dazzling Sherlockian plan to wrongfoot the euro powers; they're just a couple of well-meaning chancers who've run out of credibility, ideas and time.

Think they went against marketing convention and picked NO - oxi - because it has cultural significance for Greeks as a cry of resistance against occupiers and oppression.

T is about to go on tv to "speak to the nation" - could be resigning or calling off the referendum - not that the wind's changed and the fireship is drifting back towards him. Even if he can hang onto his job, he can't afford the next four days of shut banks and time wasted on the July 20 payback 3rd bailout negotiations

They shot down the last minute Greek pleas for bail out extension, they get to decide what will pass for third bailout talks, they're part of the magic act. Oh, and they've got the keys to the room. You can drink from Yanis V's rhetoric cup, dance and posture and hypothesize as much as you like, but the EU finance ministers locked him out of the room. And if you can't get a seat in the room you're not much use to those crowds of septuagenarians standing outside banks...

At some point, EU finance ministers are going to say balls to more horse-trading over retirement age and island VAT discounts...