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TheVoiceofReason

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About TheVoiceofReason

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  1. People that say they "can't go any lower" are as bad as those that say they "can't go any higher" (no disrepect to your parents MiCasa). The only thing that doesn't change about property prices is that they are always changing - and they can go down as well as up. It's the people that overstretch themselves to buy that generally end up getting their fingers burnt.
  2. Hi there Sine. I'll be happy to buy in a few months if I find the right house at the right price. I will only buy within my means and I will only buy a place that really suits me. If the value of that property goes down, then that's not a problem because I have no intention of selling any time soon. If the value of the property goes up, then that makes no difference because I have no intention of selling any time soon. I hope that clears things up. Sorry for appearing confused. Shakerbaby - thanks for your latest name calling (Troll!), very adult of you once again.
  3. Hi Wonderpup. I'm absolutely saying that financial advisors should take responsibilty for their actions as much as any individual - but do you think they will? I'm just taking it from the point of a potential buyer rather than a financial advisor / the government / Estate Agents or any other organistion that basically wants to take our money by whatever means available. They are all out to get us by hook of by crook. There are people out there that want to effectively steal money from you as soon as you leave your house - and now with the internet, you don't even have to leave house for people to rip you off - or at least try to. Everyone is trying to sell something and make money. Make decisions of your own that suit your needs. That's a fair way to go about your life I think. I'm just as angry at the advisors / EAs / Goverment as you are. Especially when they try to meddle with the housing market such as the Temporary Stamp duty threshold increase to £175,000! I actually think the goverment are trying to increase the fall! They effectively grag any house advertised from £175,000 - £200,000 to below £175,000. Then they wait 12 months for those houses to be around £140,000 and then what? They return to the £125,000 threshold and drag those prices further to below £125,000!!? You couldn't make it up.. but they have. In any case I'm not buying just yet as I feel I'll get a better deal in a few months. I just hope I'm right!
  4. Very good shakerbaby, very good indeed. I see you're one of the funny ones on the forum. Apologies to the esteemed "Voice of Reason" for choosing a similar name to yours. Just to re-iterate my main points: 1) People shouldn't overstretch themselves financially to buy a house. That's no-ones fault but their own. 2) Average property prices have many factors but the overriding one is what people are prepared to pay for them. Up to the individual what they pay. 3) There is no such thing as what average prices "should be", they are ever changing - buy when you want to or not at all. 4) They are too high for me at the moment, i'm hoping they will come down. If you re-read my orginal post these are the main points that I made and that I have been accused of being a "muppet" for and of course bringing someones forum name into disrepute. I think people should be more responsible for their own actions bascially.
  5. But the price they paid at the time was right. Simple. It might "seem" wrong in hindsight, but that is just hindsight. Given 10 years time (I've plucked that figure from mid air so please don't hold it against me.. just an example) If prices rise beyond what they paid then perhaps their hindsight will change their minds again to it "seeming" to be the right price. Blimey, nearly everything you pay for goes down in value and ONLY down. Property (history tells us) goes up as well as down. If you pay for a jacket and then later see it in the sale for less than what you paid for it, does that make the price you paid "wrong"? Of course it doesn't, you paid the "right" price at the time because you made a personal decision to pay that amount for it and presumably you wanted it. If it turns out in the future that perhaps you didn't want it that much Or you now think you paid too much then that's your own fault for beeing so stupid to have paid that price in the first place. Personal responsibility. I think i've repeated myself a few times now so I'm going to bow out gracefully (for now). Please understand that I am not saying "go and buy a house now". I am saying that average prices paid for property are always right.. you take responsibility on when or If you buy and do so within your means.. and of course.. at the "right" price
  6. I shall answer that question. If someone comes along and buys one of them for £165,000 then that is the right price. Alternatively if someone buys one of them for £200,000 then that is the right price. If no-one buys either of them then they don't even appear in the statistics of average house prices, as I am referring only to prices paid and not prices advertised. Do you catch my drift?
  7. Then we agree entirely. Let me put my point in simpler terms. The average price of property (and by this I mean the prices people are paying - not advertised for) is always the right price because it is what people are paying. That makes it right. Personally, I think that prices are too high at the moment - Simply based on my own needs and finances. So I choose not to buy. Prices are currently "wrong" for my needs and requirements. The distinct difference here is what prices are at the moment i.e. the right price AND what I can afford. The right price is what I am prepared to pay for it. This is true for everyone and therefore the average price at any given time is correct.
  8. Hi Shaker, I don't want to labour the point here so please substitute the word "PLENTY" for "lots" (lower case) or "some", whichever you wish. Anything that means more than none. I'm sorry for using an unquantifiable substitue because I don't know the exact figure and I'm even more sorry for using capitals. I feel ashamed for doing so. A schoolboy forum error.
  9. Hi paul, thanks for seeing my point. However, does telling the truth make it any less true just because it's 'not interesting'? I did make that point that the media don't pick up on sensible people like us (HPC people) that don't overstretch ourselves. We don't get reported on because it's not interesting. It's always the "unfortunate" family that bought a year ago but are now in financial trouble that makes the news. Yes policitians should be responsible, banks too, yes. But politicians will always talk from their rear ends and banks are always out to get our money. We must be responsible for our own actions and that, in my opinion, is what is becoming wrong with this country. Eventually we will all devoid ourselves of any personal responsibility and the state will take over and suddenly we're in George Orwells 1984. If we're not already there. Anyway, I digress.
  10. There have always been cash buyers. Please feel free to dispute that claim. It's not a "wildly insane" comment it's common knowledge. Just to clarify It's very rarely actual "cash" It just means people but houses without a mortgage. Sorry I can't reply to all of the posts so far but I hope you get my point. I want prices to come down as much as the rest of you. I just don't beleive that prices are "too high", I just choose not to buy at that price. Quite simple really.
  11. Hi Crashing. Unfortunately you have misunderstood my point. That is prices are always "right". They were right last year, they are right now and they will be right next year. The market (including government invervention, planning laws, lending restrictions, etc, etc) dicates that. It is up to the individual to make their own decision on whether to buy or not. Personal decisions, Personal responsibility.
  12. Hi Bubble. You have taken a quote out of context, please refer to the line just after that.. which say that limitations are set by banks on borrowing AND there are plenty of cash buyers that don't borrow. Bottom line is neither of these groups of people HAVE to pay the prices. People need to take some personal responsibility.
  13. .. just as they always have been. The only choice anyone has to make is whether or not it is the right time to buy - FOR THEM. I'm sorry if I have made it all sound so simplistic but I thought it was reasonable to bring a bit of sanity back into the equation. The reason property prices rose as much as they did was because people decided to pay those prices (given the opportunity by banks BUT not forced to make that decision). We can't blame the banks for that, indeed there is no-one to "blame" for anything. There are hundreds and thousands of happy home-owners that bought at "peak prices" in 2007. But how can they possibly be happy? (I can hear many HPCers cry out) Well, because they bought the right house at the right time at the right price - FOR THEM. Of course there were plenty (no doubt hundreds of thousands) of people that stretched themselves to buy innappropriate properties just to get on the "ladder". However, there have always been such people making bad decisions - they didn't just start appearing in 2005, 2006 and 2007. Just check the repossesion statistics for the last 40 years - these people have always existed. I'll return to my main point here, which is the price of property. The bottom line is this: the price of property is dictated by the amount that people are prepared to pay for it. Just like the price of anything. Yes, the limitations are in most cases set by the banks (although there have always been cash buyers remember!) and yes, estate agents (don't you just love them?) also have a hand in price inflation (and deflation for that matter), however the choice is still up to the individual on whether or not they are prepared to buy at the price (or just under it in most cases) being offered to them. There are lots of people on this forum that offer their opinion on what house prices "should" be. They "should" never be anything apart from what they are. All too frequently we hear algorithms such as 'average salary X 3.5' but the property market doesn't work like that - averages prices are hardly ever static and almost never conform to the mean trend over time. Just take a look at the graph on the front page of this website: If we take the mean trend over time as "what prices should be" then property prices have only been correct 5 times in the last 38 years lasting for a period of about 2 months at a time - thats just 10 months in the last 38 years that they've been "correct"! The rest of the time, prices were either too expensive (how many times have we heard that!) or too cheap - and when have we EVER heard that!?! Well according to the graph, prices have been TOO CHEAP for roughly 18 of the last 28 years. Hmmm, I don't remember those headlines. To those same people that suggest what average prices "should be", have you factored in interest rates against the price at the time of purchase? For the 2 months that average prices DO hit 3.5 x average salaries, lets say for example that average interest rates are at 15%, so are the prices of property still correct or are they actually too high? Average house prices are always changing but what doesn't change is that there will always be people that over-stretch themselves to buy property BUT of course there will always be people that make better informed decisions. I trust most of us people that read this forum fall into the latter category. You just don't hear about us in the papers much. P.S. I didn't buy last year by the way, i'm hoping for prices to come down just a bit more to a point that is right for me to be able to buy what I want comfortably and without stretching myself - given the right interest rates offered to me by the bank. The price I pay for my house will be "too expensive" for some people but will also be "much cheaper" than other people have paid for the same thing - but it will be "just right" for me. (My first post so please be gentle. Actually, don't be gentle.. be honest!)
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