Sourman

Do you know any? Or have you just regurgitated that from some tory rag? FYI a single mum with one child will get £20.30 per week on top of her meager Income support of £60 plus CTC at £57 so a grand total of £137 per week. HB outside London average £120 per week so a massive £257 per week, to pay bills and provide for a child. How is that being better off than someone getting over £25K??

Nothing would be better for UK football than for Manchester United to wiped from the face of the earth. Go Glazer go!!

Hands up anyone who thought the tories give a sh*t! Do not expect anything less than 5 years of self serving pocket lining for the countries top 1% of earners. Every tory government will and always has done it's very best to stratify society as much as is possible in a given time, the bigger the gap between the top and the bottom the better they think their policies are working.

Don't spoil it for them for christs' sake. What would they all do if they actually had to think a while. I suppose we should all start saying that on the day you're born you are actually in debt for all the money you will spend in your life which is the same thing as this load of b*llocks.

Another fine example of the collective hysterics that have predominated this forum for a while now.

Tbh it's been that way for a year or two now

I'm glad the wolf has come out at last. Another predator on human misery... sorry "investor".

I wonder what percentage of people on here are actually knowingly or not supporting this system? I would estimate it at over 80%.

The only thing that winds me up is the incessant drivel spouted on this board. Experian and it's access to the general population is the major cause of the debt fueled debacle that has been the last twenty years. No credit ratings agencies no debt! Letting experian have even more access is tantamount to handing your children over to jackals. This can only end in tears, but let's not worry it's only those scum at the bottom.

Anyone that thinks every unemployed person is scum has a serious problem. The scum at the bottom have barely no impact on your life so why are you worried.? Why is anyone worried? It is only as has been said before it is to distract you from the real problems and you and others fall for it every time. Jews immigrants the unemployed! All scapegoats for other more fundamental problems.

Surely they could work for free to gain experience etc. Young people just need to realize this then they can offer themselves to whomever wants to train/ use & abuse them. I can see the IOD rubbing their hands together already.

You and your ilk will no doubt be happy. Do you really think the scum at the bottom affect your life more than the scum at the top? How does that work exactly?

I'm sure David will have a new scheme in place soon, one where all those small dextrous hands will be put to good use, they just to relocate the "playgrounds" to somewhere more beneficial to the big society. Welcome to the new workhouse play area small citizen apprenticeship scheme.

I think Cameron is trying his best to be as much of a b*stard as Thatcher was. This really is the most appalling insight into how the minds of the Tory super rich think, let's go after the 1.5 billion in benefits fraud but let's leave the 15 billion of tax fraud alone as that might upset some of our chums. Absolute scum. Riots here we come.

You're so full of sh*t It's almost frightening. This gov't will bring riots back to the streets of London, glad you're so happy.

There is no such thing as the "free" market, never has been, it has always been and will always be a rigged construct. Rigged to benefit those that already have power. .Ever wondered why that period produced the effect it did? It happened at a time of increasing consumerism but also of increasing state welfare, so what was the link? And why did the Thatcher government see it as a threat, and construct policies to destroy it? Why create policies whose sole purpose was to establish a divide between various sectors of society? Is it because one of the de facto conditions of a capitalist market, is the need for well defined strata in society, those that have and those that do not. Capitalism cannot function without these well defined strata, belief in capitalism and the free market is a belief in the oppression and exploitation of one strata of society by another. It is really that simple. The history books are as someone else mentioned full of this stuff, it is not new, and it didn't start in the 1800's, the same way as gravity didn't start when Newton flopped down beside a tree. Capitalism is the archetypal bubble machine of wealth and the concentration of privilege to an ever decreasing circle, revolutions are it's end result, but then it starts over again and again... The golden era after the second world war was in part due to these boundaries being dissolved or blurred for a time, it's a shame we couldn't keep that experiment going to see where it went, instead we had houses as investments and everyone wants to be a millionaire by this time next year.

Capitalism is the base state of the human condition since the first sand dweller thought of exchanging his services for chunks of gold. It is the simplest form of human societal structure and endeavour, it has been with us a very long time. Monarchies and despots throughout history all firmly believed in the capitalist ethos and the progress of these societies is well documented. The rise and fall of the roman Empire, the mongol empire and the british empire, all based on these simplistic ideas. Capitalism has one ally in every strata of every society that has ever been and it is fear. Socialism on the other hand is a very recent ideology, it scares the willies out of capitalists, because they simply cannot grasp the point of it all. Every man for himself, survival of the fittest, strongest wins, these are all the natural ideologies of the capitalists who have the weight of history behind them and cannot see the reason for anything ever being different. Socialism is a reaction to all of that. It is the idea that, everyman for himself, might not be the right way to go in an enlightened more civilised society, and that survival of the fittest, has led the world down a one way path that is increasingly hard to move away from. Socialism as it has been seen in the past century has severe flaws, the communist embodiment of socialism has been a disaster for many, though go to any of these countries and talk to those who lived their lives there, and you will find an affection for the old days, mixed with tales of horror and hardship. God is a capitalist! And like the monotheistic religions, capitalism will take a long time to wither and crumble, but it will go the same way, only putting up a much greater fight along the way. Socialism will I hope evolve and mutate in due course, the dissemination of knowledge will help it thanks to such things as the internet, the greatest anti-capitalist invention if ever there was one. Rupert Murdoch is the epitome of capitalism and everyone of the other moneymen will be watching as he tries to take control of the internet away from the masses and into the hands of the few. I am definitely 100% a socialist, though I've never read marx or any other socialist manifesto, and I certainly don't believe we are all equal. I don't believe money is the root of all evil, though the ruthless aquisition of it is, and I do believe there must be a better way than anything we have seen so far, but I also believe things will get so much, much worse before they ever take a turn for the better. I doubt very much I'll be around to see it. It will take another 1000 years before we can move away from our gods, and it will be longer before we can move away from our deepest fears. Time for a crumpet!

+1. Spot on!

OK so the benefits system as it is, is crazy, I agree. I keep thinking one thing again and again on these benefits threads, and that is the problem of immigrants claiming benefits. I have no idea what the figures are but I suspect they make up a fair percentage of those claiming, it is certainly crazy to support this kind of abuse as it is completely a one way street for them. I also suspect no one has the required gonads to tackle that problem, so the emphasis shifts onto an easier target, " the english die hard layabout", no fear of being called a racist there.

There's something wrong right there. Can't believe it's that high.

Just another nonsense thread by some loony with another great idea. Can't believe any of you are taking this seriously. A future tory party candidate no doubt!

You're forgetting our thousands of entrepreneurs! They will keep the country afloat, I'm sure...

I know you all just see what you want to see, but as has been mentioned many times it is the high rents demanded by private landlords renting out "investment" properties, that is the real problem. HB will only be paid to landlords who agree to HB tenants moving in, so no you can't just find a property in westminster and move in claiming HB. Rents in London are astronomical, increased over 100% in the past 10 years.

Whatever your opinion, you should certainly be aware of the facts don't you think? It's a bit odd lumping retired people who have done their bit with uneducated chavs, but if that's your choice, all power to you.

Tracked it down and it is right. Only 1 in 8 of all HB claimants are registered as unemployed. 600,000 out of nearly 4.8 million claims, most are those on ESA/IB and the elderly, so once again hysteria about lazy dole scroungers rules the roost, and no one bothers to check the figures. link stats here