FDbuytoletinvestor

No I meant it! It's a goodie yes!

Correct. Of course no Estate Agent would ever break the law. They are pariahs of virtue.

Jonno The Estate Agent seems to be inventing offers as you know. You have every right to ask for proof of their offer to check it's existence. Offers are usually put in writing or at least confirmed in writing. Alternatively the Estate Agent may be too embarrassed to put your offer forwards. he'll tell you he has put it up of course. Don’t forget the same Estate Agent probably valued the property and assured the vendor he could achieve this price. Indeed if the market is slow he can not afford to lose properties, if he puts forward a low offer the vendor may well take offence and his business elsewhere. There is nothing to stop you putting a note through the door of the house explaining that you like the house and would like to have a look. You may be able to do a deal privately. For all you know when the Estate Agent did the valuation the vendor thought, “How much! Okay if you think you can get it go for it.†He may be happy with £250,000 ish. You just never know and EA’s well you know about them.

As an old timer you guys are missing the point. Being offered 0% interest for 9 months was never offered until recently. Indeed to get a bank loan in the 1980's people simply went to see the bank manger, who you size you up and say "No." Credit Cards were in their infancy with 25% interest rates. Now the credit industry is so competitive which is great for the consumer not the banks. Yes there will always be fools who spend over their limits. However most frugal customers can borrow £10k at 0%, then simply balance transfer the sum after the deal expires to 3.9% elsewhere. The cheapest loan known to man! If you break down our debt 1.1 trillion only 182 billion is unsecured i.e. personal loan, credit card, or other finance. With a population of 58 million lets assume only 70 % are over 18. Therefore the average person owes just £4,550 at very low interest rates. This includes car finance a fairly new phenomenon especially since the virtual abolition of the company car, all credit cards, graduate loans, over draughts (often interest free) and regular bank loans. To break it down further Barclaycard say 24% of customers pay the full balance every month, as I am sure most sensible people do. People run their credit cards like current accounts it pays to pay by card for all the points and benefits. In addition the super rich may carry 10k 20k plus on their cards just for monthly expenses. To take a guess lets assume 50% of unsecured debt credit card and 50% loans. Of the 50% 25% is not overhanging debt but regularly paid off. So £568.75 is lopped off per person. Leaving approx £4,000 per person, not a disastrous sum especially at such low rates.

Your demographic points are interesting; however what about the huge rise in single households (up 30% since 1951), divorcees, etc. Furthermore we are producing 1.7 children per 2 adults which isn’t bad especially compared to Europe. Also the rise of divorce is creating an influx of “glue babies†I really love you lets prove it with a baby. Birth rates are edging up. IVF treatment becoming more affordable and popular might further increase birth rates. Not to mention the 157,000 immigrants arriving each year, vital for the economy. Finally I don’t think you can assume pensioners will blow their pension. Seems very irresponsible. Then again so does 1.1 trillion of debut!

I doubt this web site will change anything. Every time you buy a property your solicitor finds out what the current owner paid during conveyance . The information is also held on the land registry. The site is just old info with better marketing.

Okay this chap does seem extremely irritating many friends of mine were given 50k – 100k to buy property in their twenties. It’s an absolute kick in the jollies, even though you are supposed to be happy for them. Although one spent the money on a sports car which he promptly wrote off, try explaining that to father. However, how long do you think it will take for prices to double? 10 years, 15, 20 or never? If he can hang on during “the crash†he could sell in the next boom. Acknowledge to point about having nowhere to live and not being able to downsize. However at his age he can wait for the next boom?

Yogi Could you rephrase the point. I am not beeing difficult although maybe a little slow! How or what do you mean. Again don't take ot the wrong way Yogi I'm sure there is a good point there I just can't get your drift.

Yogi This is a first time buyer guide not for BTL, of course it is a terrible BTL investment. The point I was making: FTB's can afford to buy. Someone asked how the property would work as a BTL as I demonstrated. Aside sorry to let off steam. Tagents galore on this tread.

DTMark: a brilliant post. I'd love a four bedroom 2 reception mansion block flat in St Johns Wood, with a roof terrace of course. With the old London feel you know with a porter, but not just a regular porter one of guys with hats that calls you sir. And in a really beautiful building "sirocco" fronted preferably. Problem is I can't afford it so I work hard and hope to achieve the goal. It is seems unfair that regular Joe's can't buy property in Hammersmith but it's not a God given right. Indeed London has such a huge demand from all over the world prices are driven up beyond the means of its native population. Joe is not just competing with his immediate piers but a world wide market. If you’re a nurse or policeman you have made a decision to work for the love of the job not huge financial gain. There is nothing to stop you resigning and getting a job in the City. Of course we need nurses and policeman but the country can not afford to pay £100,000 each. To answer some points: Yes I do wish rents in Kentish Town were £650 and that rents in London were less. Why? Because it would mean property values were less and I could buy more properties. As a landlord it’s not all about charging the highest rent imaginable. I’d love to charge significantly less than I do. It would make the properties far easier to let and tenants less fussy. However the maths would not add up. This 12% price rise is a real bug bear for some of you? Well feel free to disagree but it feels about right to me and comes from a good source. Although given the state of our Universities maybe not! As for the Kentish Town rental figures sorry but you are all misinformed. Maybe you can rent a 1 bed for £650 but I assure you it would amount to nothing more than a rats nest. My figures are accurate for the average “nice†one bed. As for 2 beds in Highbury for £800 the same logic applies. You can rent a one bed in Hampstead for £200 per week (866.66 pcm) but it would be a damp, rank, basement.

Why are you all so determined not to have a mortgage? It is not a dirty word. Of course you have to pay the money back with interest but that’s how the economy works. Having a property owned outright with no mortgage is, in my opinion, a complete waste of working capital. You have to repay the money at just 5% and don’t forget can pay the full loan off at any time. Anyone can make a lump cash sum of say £50,000 earn more than 5% interest, surely? Even if you buy 500,000 cans of coke and flog them in Hyde Park in summer. Re mortgaging to buy cars etc is of course foolhardy. However with having a property with over 50% is just wasteful. Tesco aren’t the biggest retailer in the UK by paying off all their debts and only buying in stock for cash. Branson didn’t start Virgin with cash. All businesses have loans and credit agreements it enables them to grow much faster. I’ waffling so cease.

I have just read a good article entitled “Self Fulfilling Prophesy.†Basically states the following: House prices over valued in terms of PI and inflation Mortgage payment very low most FTB’s and other punters able to afford payments, however deposit the major obstacle. Parents Grandparents Guardians of FTB still convinced owning property is the long term way forward; long term there will be another boom someday. Said elders have such outrageous equity they can afford to re mortgage or even gift a deposit to youngsters. Indeed Capital Gains Tax makes gifting money early a good policy to limit CG Tax liability. Therefore wealth will be passed down to prop up the market and create another mini boom. The only people missing out will be people with poor families who have no inherited or gifted deposit thus creating a wider rich / poor gap. This seems logical given elders faith in property. Discuss

You all seem to be assuming the Kentish Town / Highbury flat is a dump! Kentish Town and Highbury are nice places to live, near Islington and Hampstead repectiviely and on good tube links. I use them as an example because they are areas where FTB might start off before moving to Angel or Hampstead. NOT hell on earth you can buy 1 bed flats for £150,000 in such areas Hackney, Shadewll etc. £200,000 will not just buy a dump but a nice one bedroom property close to tube etc. Buy a house 3 bedroom house out of town for the money? Okay that's your decision but I think your struggle even 4 years ago. You might find a dreadful new build house with paper thin walls etc. As for my stats: They come from Westminster University. Furthermore I do buy property fairly regularly and prices just don't feel as if they have risen. Although Foxtons etc might tell you they are rising at £1000 per second. The very high end property trasactions (2 million plus) may have interfered with your figures?) £650 pcm for a one bed in Kentish Town, I wish. Check www.findaproperty.co.uk the average 1 bed goes for £933 per month, I stand a little corrected. Anyway this example was not intended as a buy to let merely a 1st time buyer. Immigrants not being able to pay rent! International students pay £400 per week for a two bed in London, they have more money than City bankers sometimes. We have 92,000 inpats “executive types†entering London every year to work. Not all immigrants are builders, most are so talented we had to recruit abroad as schools are producing such dross! Yet awarding the 3 A’s for good effort. Anyway I think one thing that could bring the market down in Negative Sentiment. Especially having read the site. I feel people are so fed up with high prices we could enter a cycle where everyone refuses to pay asking price, or buy altogether. I feel people really want a price drop and property is only worth what someone will pay. Enough property backlash fuelled by the press could see a significant market drop. Maybe you could organise this?

Oracle Very true. Your market analysis will keep the rental market boyant hence prices stable as buy to let investors pile in. I don't want to argue with you so don't get nasty.

I have noticed something else quite amusing about this site. There seems to be a huge movement for not living beyond ones means by living off your equity, buying Audi TT's, plasma screens, etc. Indeed members seem very keen on lecturing how not to spend money on credit as it costs far more in the long run. At the same time the same people heap criticism on landlords and pray they go bankrupt. Don’t they realise experienced landlords are the tightest buggers on the planet! Most of the landlords I know with decent experience would rather bite off their own arm than pay an Estate Agent to find a tenant even for just 5%. Repairs what repairs? By a new washing machine no no get it fixed. I must say as a landlord who “hangs out†with others we would not dream of buying a TT. I know a landlord with 50 properties who drives a Talbot (remember those?) Reckons its cheaper to buy a car for £250 and run it into the ground then dump it, than pay monthly payments for something flash, insurance payments are pretty tasty too. The credit society does worry me but I think it’s a part of life these days. There will be casualties no doubt. However are people really so stupid? Isn’t the 1 trillion of household debt manly in housing? And isn’t most of the rest on some sort of 0% balance transfer rate?

Figures for Buy to Let in Highbury at £200,000: This example was for 1st time buyers who could easily pay the mortgage with combined salaries. As a BTL (i feel trendy now) the figure would work as follows Dep £30,000 Mort £170,000 @ 5.75% int only £708.33 pcm Rent £1000 pcm Yield 6% Not a great BTL by any means but a good example of a 1st time buyer purchase. For those pf you who hope I go bust thanks, I'm sure my kids would be happy and the wife. Seems a bit harsh but so be it. As for the lack of migration. I don't agree London has a huge maganatism for immigrants especially "in pats" Bankers, students, etc. London has a "buzz" that people want to experience. Would you work in New York ot Tokyo for a year given the chance? As a resident you become very cynical but the global work force outs London at the top if it's destination list.

Good evening all. Have a good laugh I'm a buy to let investor in London I'm sorry but I just can't see a long term proeprty crash in London. Since 1999 prices have only risen 12% in real terms so we have had a soft landing already really. I buy all the time and have not noticed prices rise for a good few years now. Certianly no more than 5% since Jan 2003. Furthermore proeprty is not that expensive, a property in Kentish Town or Highbury is only about £200,000 for a one bed. Average London salary £30k. Two love birds can borrow combined salary £60k x 3 (Yes N Rock) 180K and put down 20K easy. Okay Kentish Town and Highbury are not great but this is a first time buy after all. Wages are going up 5% per year much faster than proeprty prices in London. I think peole think they should be able to buy in Mayfair striaght away aged 22 these days as we live in a very instant credit society. When I was a lad my first property was in Palmers green N13 (nearly Wood Green) which cost £100k. It broke me to buy it but I saved hard and got on the ladder. Belive me you could buy a one bed flat in London for 150K if you were prepared to comprimise. Finally I just can't see demand for property subsiding. Indeed London's population is due to grow by 1 million by 2020. Immigrants and migrnants will always come here to work. The economy is strong, don't worry abou the retailers they always moan about Christmas, its banking, media, and advertising that drive the London economy and they are all looking good. Ofcourse supply is limited by planning etc. As a buy to let chap I would love prices to drop. I could buy more more more property and have good old 12% yields agian. I want to belive but I just can't. Aside good site and I hope your all proved right.