cartimandua51

We have 8 million unemployed Brits who could be forced to work instead the Govt gives the benefit to any tom dick or harry and not making sure the Brits are employed first. Thats the problem, I have no problem with immigrants per se but not at the expense of the indiginous population. Thats the root of the problem in the UK. There is no control. If you can support yourself and have a home and have a job which is not at the expense of British workers then by all means but dont try and tell me its the same when Brits go abroad because its not. I am in full agreement if a Brit goes abroad and claims benefit or cannot support themselves in that country they should be returned to their native land. Some of these COULD be forced to work, but I don't think you can blame employers for preferring to employ Eastern Europeans who are positively eager to work rather than the sullen chavs who will turn up when they're sober enough & do the absolute minimum when they do. The Eastern Europeans are probably better educated as well, and make an effort to learn English. On the other side of the coin, remember the French politician (?Sarkozy?) who commented bitterly that France was sending the UK its bright young graduates and getting a load of pensioners in return. The French have had to put restrictions on expat Brits exploiting their excellent health service, as far as EU law allows. "Twas ever thus - the Elizabethans bellyached about "Sturdy Beggars" who wouldn't work, and if you want to look at the results of no benefits system you only have to read your Dickens.

Bournemouth is awash with 2-bed flats new-build or conversions of edwardian detached 4-bedders. These seem to be flat - few reductions but not moving either. Sales of small family homes and student-occupied HMOs seem to be doing OK - the latter partly because they are nearly all 2-storey so haven't been hit by the compulsory licencing regs, and Bournemouth students tend to be backed by fairly well-heeled middle-class parents who would have liked their kids to go to Exeter but they didn't get the grades..

According to Middleton (1997) (University of Bristol) "Looking first at public sector employment (Figure5) we observe a near fivefold rise in its share of the total working population between 1900 and 1979," if that answers your question. It has probably dropped since then, or been "massaged" out, but still a LOT more. What worries me is not just the idea of recessionary shake-out - I'm old enough enough to have been working in the early 70s and the 3-daY Week - but the fact that the link between effort and reward seems to have been broken. This affects a lot of things: I grew up in a council house in a nice little enclave; in the 1950s there was a "reward" system: be a good tenant, keep your house nice, pay your rent promptly and you get get upgraded to a bigger /nicer house in a better area. Allocation now is merit-blind, so the more inadequate and irresponsible you are (short of certain seriously criminal behaviour) the more the Nanny state looks after you. If there is a serious recession and the state can't/ won't support those who've got used to not working ( the three-generation benefit dependents we hear so much about) are they just going to look industriously for any available work? I think not. I reckon "It's my right, I'll take it" is more likely to be the order of the day. I suspect the elderly will come off worst as services are cut and crime rises. I noticed in my teaching days the increasing attitude not just of "I've a right to a job" but "I've a right to an interesting, well-paid job with good prospects" Does anyone else feel the culture of rights without responsibilities is going to make any upcoming recession more unpleasant than the one in the 70s? Ah, well; have just thoroughly depressed myself.

Umm.. doesn't that rather assume that Britain is going to hell in a handcart on its own? I rather think that the recession will be Europe-wide (except perhaps Germany, which has already had a very nasty dose) and everywhere else is likely to take a dim view of all those immigrant Brits trying to flood into their country, and slam the gates. I do agree that if there is a serious recession things will get seriously nasty - Yugoslavia / Rwanda / Darfur have all gien us an insight into how vicious people can be to each other, especially when there aren't enough resources to go round. Question is, what constitutes "enough" in the "I-know-my-rights" & "Because you're worth it" society may not be as basic as food and warmth.

Oh, and Elephant is still a crap hole (in case you didn't know) The Elephant is a gamble. Speaking as someone who lived there for 23 years until a couple of months ago, I'd have said that gentrification was creeping down from the river ( apparently some estate agents call it "South Bankside"!!?!) However the new towers look like a disaster if only because of the lack of parking. 500 flats and only about 20 parking spaces? and Ken Livingstone says that's too many; he wants Disabled-only. Could these end up mostly social housing because buyers want/need their cars & therefor won't buy? so much for mixed housing, and 30-odd floors of social housing is staight back to the bad old days of tower blocks.. I think your mate is on a hiding to nothing.