Papitogrande
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Posts posted by Papitogrande
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Looks like I can change the status. I'm sure it is very bad form to reply to one's own post but I'm dying to see how my leotard looks. (This will make no sense if the picture did not upload)
EDIT: Ok so no none of that worked at all
EDIT 2: EE-ZI EE-ZI EE-ZI
I really need to go to the pub, maybe it's the heat.
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Good point, but I understand that the "money markets" explanation for a bear market is one which falls 20% or more over a given period - hence stock markets are now called bear markets as they have fallen 20% year on year. So I reckon that makes any HPC poster who believes in 20%+ falls from peak to = bear?
You are quite right and I considered conceding the point about it being a technical definition, I just kind of couldn't be bothered. The central point is that it does seem quite redundant to have this tag - as you say yourself, how could any sane person not be a bear? If 99.9% of posters adopt this title it may as well just be accepted as a given.
PS - I like your avatar (unless it's a real pic of you) You've inspired me - watch this space!
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So Will We Learn After This Time?
Probably not
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Having spent so much time on here, how on earth could any human being who can read english and does not have learning difficulties, still use the "neither" tag? Do you, at the coalface, still not accept that this is a Bear market? Since your posts are bright and interesting, which suggests that you are not challenged other than in the in-need-of-a-new-job department, I demand that you come out of the neither closet and emerge as a Bear!
In all honesty if it were possible I would change my status to Bull. That is because I predicted that nominal prices will fall by approx 25% from their peak - over about 2 years. In the context of this site that is pretty darn bullish, what defines a bull, bear or neither is changing. Because property prices are actually falling, to think that property prices will fall is not in itself bearish, it's the reality of the situation, IMO the whole bull/bear tag is an anachronism from the days when this site used to hold genuine debates about prices rising or falling.
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Haven't we got any human-donkey embryo hybrid superbugs which can do the job for us?
That's exactly how my wife describes me.
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http://db.riskwaters.com/public/showPage.html?page=802181
An insurance company is attempting to cash in on peoples fears of escalating mortgage rates with a 'revolutionary' product.
Excesses are between 1 and 2.5% and the premiums are massive. For the 1% excess rates would have to rise 1.75% before you even started making your premiums back on a 100k mortgage int only.
I suppose if you subscribe to RB's view of 9% interest rates it's worth it.
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There have already been 70% falls of new build flats at auction.
£238k to £71k, Kelso Heights, Leeds...
http://www.thisismoney.co.uk/mortgages/art...mp;in_page_id=8
This one has been dealt with before and it's entirely misleading. The Kelso heights development was a massive FRAUD
The valuer who put them at £238k is still wanted by west yorkshire police, the most anyone paid was £178k and the bloody place is falling apart.
I'm not saying that new builds won't drop massively, of course they will, but examples like this are misleading.
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20- 30 per cent of poles leaving?
Are you suggesting this is fact?
And your source, why it's Chris Tadel who runs a bookshop.
Hardly conclusive is it?
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QUOTE:
Martyn Morgan, from Talbots, later told the News consumer confidence was a big worry - but he stressed all professionals involved in the house-moving market must work together to reassure and re-educate house hunters and sellers.
WTF? He's basically saying they need to get together in order to flog the dead horse!
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http://www.mortgagesolutions-online.com/pu...tml?page=800996
My distribution channel is still there, handy as I have not used ME for about 4 years. Maybe one day.
Looks like they are getting no business in through the 70ish distribution channels slashed.
I think the point is that they were getting business through these channels and have cut them to slow down their lending. BMS + RBS will up their rates this week - nailed on
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Add to that list of lenders increasing BTL rates today:
Bank of Ireland
Nottingham BS
Woolwich
Expect RBS, BM solutions and Mortgage express by the end of the week
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What, the whole company? I heard they were in trouble.
VMR.
I heard, what I consider to be, a very reliable rumour than the former owner is considering a bid for the company. It would not surprise me in the least he's a canny bloke.
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So in the case of proving whether a mortgage of more than 3.5 times earnings is justified? the case against Mr Pebble could be proved by just such meaningless examples as in the Papitogrand example, as the proposition Mr Pebble is making does NOT relate to business loans.
In the example, the intent of the loan is clearly for business, but by the manipulation of words, the intent is obfsucated.
I thought we had a truce!
You are basically saying that anyone should be allowed to MEW whatever income multiple the like as long as it's invested in buy-to-let. I find that surprising to say the least
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In a similar vein I noticed a local EA had a label on almost every property saying 'part ex considered'. I really should have asked how this little innovation worked
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OBFUSCATION
In the spirit of bygones being bygones I would like to thank Eric for introducing me to this word. I shall attempt to use it at least annually.
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It's a scam, some people can't see it. They pay below market value.
People who can't afford a mortgage can't afford rent, the BMV charges market rates so wipes out any reductions from using your equity. Equity release is better dealt with by a regulated financial advisor.
They are a landlord and can kick you out, housing benefits will stop, you now have say 10K in cash so no more benefits, it all goes back to the BMV in rent.
Better to face up to things, sell the house taking any equity in cash and start again. There is no situation where these services work for the benefit of the current owner.
Ok 3 months to live or relocating to a dream job in Hong Kong you may want cash today, but you pay for this service , massively.
OMG - they pay BELOW market value, swine - what sort of person wants to take advantage of buying houses for less than what they could otherwise pay and take advantage where some poor sap may be about to lose their home. Oh, most of the people on here.
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P; I just reiterate to compare a business loan to a Home owner loan on earnings criteria is plain nonsense.
A business loan would take into account of the earnings of the business. Example, if a business is earning £2000 per month, the loan supported would be some multiple of the £2000, regardless of the earnings of the person borrowing.
That same person could borrow twice as much if the business was earning twice a much, or ten times as much if the business was earning 10 times as much.
I'm not comparing anything, it is a mortgage not a business loan. It is secured against an individuals main residence and was based on their ability to repay. If the loan were secured against the investment property and was based on the rental projection then you'd have a case.
We are kind of going round in circles here so I call a truce, we'll agree to differ if it's ok with you. You can be wrong but I won't keep picking you up on it. I'll be right and not keep badgering you to admit that the sky doesn't necessarily fall in when someone borrows above 3.5x
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It has already been brought to the media's attention that there have been dozens of developments were large discounts have been given similar to this one, were lenders also saw fit to lend money on as at the time they thought they were a sound investment?
So why you think it so extreme i don,t know.
Mainly because the £238k valuation was obtained by bribing a surveyor who has since left the country. You are right that similar discounting went on but this is at the extreme end and was a blatant fraud, not unique but this was not common practice.
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Laugh or cry?
whichever you like I guess, but it would be nice if you'd explain yourself
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Here's a quote from a Paragon mortgages press release I saw today:
The whole thing was basically a ramping excercise saying prices a stable, yields are at an all-time high, blah blah blah.
However, the above paragraph absolutely disgusted me. Basically, by taking advantage of some down on their luck people who unfortunately can't afford to keep their homes, they are supposedly helping society. :angry: :angry:
I think you're being a little simplistic here. Consider the position of the seller who could be faced with the following choice;
Option 1. Get reposessed by the bank, go onto the CMLs blacklist. Your original debt will increase substantially because the bank will charge you all their costs along with a host of legal bills. You may end up getting 70% max as the property will be auctioned in what is a terrible market.
Option 2. Sell it to a company for 70%LTV, clear your debts, don't have a reposession against your name, rent the property and you and your family don't have the hassle/distress of moving.
The bottom line is that this is a market solution to a problem, of course the buyer is looking to make a profit but they are taking a risk and making an investment to try and secure that return.
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Yep. Why not ? It's not that difficult to organise or legislate for.
In France , plenty of people do this every day.
What do the majority of EA's add to the selling/buying process that is of any worth ? No better than car salesmen. Which is why lots of people sell and buy their own cars, without the need of a 3rd party.
Yes but some people choose to go to a dealership. I think people should be perfectly entitled to buy and sell property without using an EA - in fact I think some do. New technology makes this easier all the time and I for one would not try to stop it in any way.
The reason EAs came into existence is that there was a market demand for them, just like any intermediary. This doesn't make them parasites. Is an ice-cream van salesman a parasite because he parks his van near a playground? Is a mechanic a parasite because he benefits from cars breaking down?
Some people are too busy or they may feel awkward in direct negotiation, or feel that they lack the right skills. There are some cracking EAs out there as well as very bad ones.
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I'm not sure where the piece will be in the paper but this is being very prominently displayed on the website:
I know Kelso heights because almost a year ago I looked at buying 3 flats there at £67k each. It is worth pointing out that this building was the center of a pretty dramatic fraud, in that the 'values' of £238k were always pie in the sky.
The original purchaser would have got a 25% discount from this price, 15% going into the mortgage deposit and £20k+ coming in the way of cash-backs.
The building itself has developed a massive crack in the exterior wall and is basically a complete dump. I've probably got some photos if anyone was interested.
Interestingly at the time hometrack still had a desk-top valuation of £200k each, meaning that if one were so inclined they could have been legally bought for cash and remortgaged with GMAC for £150k, pocketing £75k in cash for each one - I must admit I was tempted.
Whilst the article is great bear food and I'm not trying to spoil your brunch, this is a very extreme example that serves the newspapres purposes, but does not translate to 60% drops on all new-build flats, let alone house prices.
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He knows the whole parasitic industry around selling houses is in trouble unless sellers start seriously slashing prices.
The whole parasitic industry?
What's your alternative? Would you just do away with the whole lot of 'em and make everyone market their own house?
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P- you can twist and turn and justify all you like in this case, in my view Its a BTL loan, secured on property. I beleive there is a difference between that and an OO loan.
You then go on to say this loan is 100% Ok but then deny responsibilty for any consequences, you dun your bit, the rest is his problem. Whilst that IS true, I rest my case, and as i say, the best of luck to you and your client.
As for the question, I do not think, nor even considered a LAW on multiples is necessary.
I refute the suggestion that I am twisting anything, I have given the plain facts and it is you who is twisting them.
If you are simply unable to distinguish between a BTL and a residential mortgage in the same manner that Eric can not distinguish between liar loans and subprime then we're not going to get anywhere.
Eric, you've pointedly ignored my repeated question to you, I am left with the conclusion that you agree that there was nothing wrong with this client borrowing 5.7x income, but do not want to acknowledge the fact.
As for having 'dun my bit' you are spinning this to look like all I would do is arrange finance and not give a hoot that property prices may drop. As if in some way I should be advising on future values.
Let me be really clear on this - I CAN'T DO THAT. We are regulated to provide advice on a factual basis, property prices are a matter of opinion. I would never talk them up or down - if asked I make this clear to people that they should do their own research.
Btl Lenders
in House prices and the economy
Posted
Am I missing something? Have B&B gone or are you speculating (not unreasonably) that they are about to go pop?