babesagainstmachines

I can't wait to watch the documentaries about this in 10 years.

Who offered it? What rates? I need to know which banks to avoid...

Get rid of central banks. Job done.

I can't help feeling that the biggest culprit in all this is the people who mis-sold pensions in the 80s. You can follow quite a trail from "stock market always gains 10% per annum" through stock market and tech stock crashes, to "property is an investment" for both individual BTL and fund managers putting cash into MBS's, through to the priced out generation of FTBs and ultimately the crash. Actually, scrap that. It's all Thatcher's fault

I tend to agree in some ways. However it will just be a re-inforcement of pre-held beliefs. Interest rate cut: Bear says: Oh noes, they are cutting in the face of inflation. We will have massive inflation, buy gold quick! Bull says : That's the recession off. This was just a perfect blip for, now to buy some newbuild flats quick. Interest rates go up: Bear says: Oh noes, they are raising rates. This will mean mass reposessions and recession. Pay off debts quick! Hoard cash! Bull says: Perfect! Cheap repos to snap up. And rents go up in a recession!! Winner!! Meanwhile, ordinary Joe in the street gets on with life. Everyone suffers a little bit of decreased spending power. Some people lose their jobs and homes and suffer alot. They blame the Russians and Arabs for the energy prices and the weather for food prices. Madeleine McCann is spotted in Weston-super-Mare and the Tories get voted in with a landslide.

I can really see the other banks queuing up to take on all those people who took out up to 125% LTV... 25% negative equity before ANY proce falls. Indeed, it's not rocket science.

I think alot of people would argue that scrapping the central bank would be a good thing. A credit bubble would not achieve the magnitude of the current one without artificially low interest rates and a lender of last resort to give confidence to institutions which are essentially bankrupt all the time by the standards of any other business.

Look to the wind power news.... this could be a money printing project, a great way for the government to force cash into the economy.

There is no limit to the ignorance and stupidity of people, even those who can generally be considered intelligent WHY people say/write things is at least as important as what they are saying

Great. More paper shuffling to do, more money for the accountants, more taxmen needed. I'm going to start a cash only business, screw this corrupt set of despots.

Domo, it's spelt "coming" not "comming" please fix it, it detracts from your deflationary story credibility. The BoE lost control when the FSA was set up. They should have been regulating lending standards, but wandered around with their eyes closed.

What REALLY irks me about this is the fine they got for it. I can't find the piece I read originally, but it estimated the supermarkets made £270m extra profit through this price fixing. And they fine them something like £120m... They should be made to pay the farmers the £270m, and also pay the £120m fines (apologies if my figures arent quite correct....)

I still can't believe there are "neithers" around who think a measley quarter point cut will kickstart the market. After a bank run. During a credit freeze bigger than anything seen before in the world. Ever. And this was before house prices had even started falling in the UK.... That 0.25 cut is really going to save the day! Woohoo!

Damn right. When a public stop spending, the government will have to get very creative. I don't know everything the Japanese tried, but the certainly had the 0% rates to help the banks out. They also tried massive government spending, but I think we don't have the scope to do that. I guess they could try Abolish stamp duty Abolish HIPS No VAT on conveyancing Tax relief on mortgage interest Abolish ISAs Increase tax on savings Legal cap on credit card rates

This statement totally sums up the bulls argument and why it is utter nonesense. I don't know what world you live in, but calling £100k of debt tiny is utterly laughable. The only places where you can get a house for £100k, the average wages are sub £20k. I'm sorry you have been deluded by the debt pushing VI spin machine. One day you'll wake up though.

Nice one. What you are failing to see is the people who can get the credit now are the more prudent and sensible, who know that they can rent risk free and cheaper than buy. The sort of people who don't want to take on the ridiculous amounts of debt that the "current" prices requires. The sort of risk-averse people who will stay well clear of a falling market. That's why prices will come down and will continue to do so. Only an idiot would look just at the repayments in today's interest rates. The idiots that can't get a mortgage anymore.

No. They still need to find the mugs to take on the debt, and there are now officially not enough mugs. HPC is on. The only question is how badly it hurts the economy.

Forget fractional reserve and depositors, that's not the model that NR was using. They made loans, then sold the loans on for cash. THen make more loans based on that cash. Very little deposit base is needed using this model, as the cash for selling the mortgages on is the banks to lend as it pleases.

Inflationary environment - everyone worse off ... therefore less income to pay towards mortgages Credit crunch - lenders far more picky and this will not change with a rate cut, even 1% Spectre of recession - people don't spend Sentiment - down the toilet It matters not what politicians or the press say if you cannot get the mortgage. The people who actually can get a mortgage will be waiting not buying.

Rate cuts now are to save the banks' arses and try and stave off systemic failure. The "party" ended this summer. Give it up.

You cannot use science and measurement to determine morals, only to determine truth. You know very little about my beliefs or morals. Now I'm going to watch FP on somebody else's TV. Stop ranting and start persuading.

I use my own moral compass to decide what is right and wrong, hopefully based on my own experience and opinions I can trust. Bark on like a madman and I won't trust you. Persuade and reason, and you might get somewhere.

Yet another thread hijacked by ranting though. When I genuinely want information or opinions regarding something related to how thinks actually work, I get a truck loads of unrelated opinions or ill-informed half-truths. I know you think the system is corrupt, but don't distort the facts about how it works to suit your agenda. Injin isn't the only one. For instance... a debt of £10,000 can be paid off with £1, provided you don't have to pay that debt off in chunks of more than £1. You just have to get hold of that £1 alot of times, which is entirely possible. The monetary system itself only actually has a tiny injustice in it - that of being forced to use it and contribute to the costs of it's upkeep. It is however open to severe manipulation by those at it's centre. If you bark on like a madman then you will get treated like one, even if you are right.

I covered that with this line... There is money in the system - the money you just created. The mistake you are making is assuming that this debt is paid in full along with the principal at the same time, thus it cannot be repaid. It doesn't work like that though. Interest is paid by the government at regular intervals until the bond matures, at which point the government just issues a new one and the whole process goes on. Since the BoE is owned by the government, then the interest it charges the government would go back to the government, minus the costs to run the process.

I think that covered under the next step? The order isn't that important, since it's the transaction... government bond for central bank cash, that puts cash into the system. Yes? No?