Tuesday, Sep 21, 2010

Hello banks, can we have our money back please??

38 Degrees: Cuts – what should 38 Degrees do?

"In October, the government will be publishing plans to massively cut public spending. Many 38 Degrees members have been in touch expressing concern about the government’s plans and with ideas for ways in which we could work together to influence the debate. 38 Degrees has a huge impact because thousands of us work together. That includes deciding what we do together. What do you think we should do together as the new government prepares to slash spending?" HERE ARE SOME IDEAS FOR SAVING MONEY: WHAT ABOUT NOT HAVING BAILED OUT THE BANKS IN THE FIRST PLACE? WHAT ABOUT A GOVERNMENT ACT TO LEGISLATE FOR FAIR PROPERTY PRICES SO THAT WE, THE PEOPLE, ARE NOT RINSED LEFT, RIGHT AND CENTRE BY GREEDY VENDORS, ESTATE AGENTS AND BTL PARASITES?? :-)

Posted by mick rupert @ 10:30 AM (769 views) Add Comment

9 Comments

1. drewster said...

Wow what a ranty website! It almost makes us HPCers look sane :)

For those who can't be bothered reading the comments, they mostly say scrap Trident, bash bankers, or raise taxes. There's very little discussion of actual numbers.

The numbers matter, of course. One commenter (Austin) explains the problem in numbers and meaningful comparisons:

"The UK has a budget deficit of 12.7pc of GDP, the biggest of any major economy. The UK collected tax receipts of £34bn last month, but spent £51bn – and we're being told this is a "fiscal squeeze". During the next four years, our national debt is on course to balloon by another 55pc – and there are massive additional state liabilities, perhaps the same amount again, hidden off-the-books in PFI schemes.

Spending more money to "boost" the economy would be deeply counter-productive, resulting in a Greek-style funding crisis. Annual interest payments on UK government debt, already £40bn, are set to reach £70bn by 2015 – what the country spends on schools and transport – as the national debt jumps.

But even those obscene debt service projections are based on low interest rates. The UK 10-year bond yield, for now, remains quite low at around 3.1pc. That's only because the gilts market is being supported by printed money and banks are being forced by the Government to buy sovereign debt under the guise of "prudence". Both props will soon be removed. And when they are, government borrowing costs will rise – even if the AAA-rating stays intact.

If the UK is downgraded, debt service payments on government debt will escalate even more. Once that happens, borrowing costs will soar right across the economy – not least for firms and mortgage holders. The damage to growth and jobs would be massive, dwarfing any putative gain which may or may not result from an extra billion here and there in government spending."


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Tuesday, September 21, 2010 11:01AM Report Comment
 

2. Pyracantha said...

Way too many chattering class Guardian readers who can't get past their "Scrap Trident Now" argument as the solution to everything.

Tuesday, September 21, 2010 11:34AM Report Comment
 

3. debtfree said...

It's very easy to let slip the amount, for example, a few billion here, few billion there. All of a sudden, the word billion becomes almost meaningless. The following extract from an advert is a good way to refresh the true fiscal implications that lie ahead. Although it mentions the dollar, you get the idea.

A billion seconds ago it was 1959.

A billion minutes ago Jesus was alive.

A billion hours ago our ancestors were living in the Stone Age.

A billion dollars ago was only 8 hours and 20 minutes, at the rate Washington spends it.

Tuesday, September 21, 2010 11:59AM Report Comment
 

4. general congreve said...

Yep, total failure of most of the general public to really grasp what is going on, judging by the comments. Rather than rant about how unfair everything is they should take steps to protect themselves from the forthcoming sh1t storm, cos complaining makes little difference whatever side of the political spectrum you approach the problem from. Although no doubt most of these ranters are so heavily indebted through their own largesse that their only option left is to rant.

As for scrapping Trident as an irrelevance in this day and age, do these people know those theocratic, racist, intolerant nut jobbers in Israel possess at least 200 undeclared nukes? Want to take orders from them (more than we already do)? FFS.

Got gold? £825/$1280 today. I remember 9 months ago the big debate was whether it'd hit £700/$1000. Hilarious.

Tuesday, September 21, 2010 12:18PM Report Comment
 

5. jackas said...

Debtfree,

I noticed that during the soccer world cup final the commentator said there were hundreds of billions of people around the world watching.

Trillion is the new billion innit.

Tuesday, September 21, 2010 12:43PM Report Comment
 

6. nickb said...

No, there is simply no analogy to Greece, which doesn't have it's own currency. The government deficit and debt are sterling denominated. There will always be sufficient demand for pounds for them to be of interest to bond markets, and if not, we don;t actually have to rely on the bond markets. The japs have a national debt about 300% of GDP and can keep going, becuase they are in the same position - monopoly issuer of the yen.
Deficit hysteria. We are being conned.
Nick

Tuesday, September 21, 2010 03:48PM Report Comment
 

7. drewster said...

nickb,

Yes we do have our own currency, so Greece isn't the right comparison. The correct comparison is with Britain 35 years ago. Stagflation, wage-price spiral, and rapidly devaluing currency. It's certainly an option if you like punishing pensioners.

Tuesday, September 21, 2010 07:08PM Report Comment
 

8. icarus said...

If you want to see government waste on a massive scale take a look at last night's Dispatches programme on 4. The MOD and its procurement methods (how many civil servants does it take to make appalling procurement decisions - answer 20,000) make benefit fraud look like stealing candy.

Tuesday, September 21, 2010 07:51PM Report Comment
 

9. jackas said...

Nickb,

Just out of interest, how do you think the trade surplus that Japan has with the world affects the demand for Yen? Do you see any problem with our current trade deficit?

Also, do you think the high savings rates in Japan vs. low savings rates here will impact your analogy?

Japan's property market is famous for falling heavily since the 80s boom ended. Are you predicting the same here?

Tuesday, September 21, 2010 08:19PM Report Comment
 

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