Thursday, Aug 20, 2009
Worse than expected
The Telegraph: Government borrowing jumps as tax receipts plummet
Plummeting tax receipts - especially from companies - saw Government borrowing surge to its highest level for the month of July since records began.
Posted by devo @ 10:26 AM (1983 views) Add Comment
39 Comments
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1. paul said...
Explanation for Mervyn King wishing to expand QE?
2. flashman said...
Plummeting tax receipts have to me met with austerity measures. If you don’t introduce the austerity measures quickly, then you damage the country. The government is avoiding these measures because it wants to win the next election. I know nothing about constitutional law, but isn't that illegal?
3. symo said...
It's the recovereh innit?
4. wdbeast said...
flashman - "You might very well think that; I couldn't possibly comment" (Francis Urquhart, House of Cards)
5. inbreda said...
As an aside - I have just had a phone call from my bank to tell me that they will not allow me to remove my money from the bank. As I have stated on here a number of times, I am emptying my money from the banks - I would rather it devalued by inflation at a slightly faster rate, rather than go to recapitalise the banks. So anyway, they phoned to tell me that the sum I wanted to withdraw was too large so they wouldn't authorise it. I asked if there was an acceptable limit - they said yes, but that if I withdrew that much every day the account would probably be frozen within a few days - long before I got my money out.
I am now scared shtless. The bank has my money and they are not giving it back. They said they would happily transfer it to another bank - but basically it is nigh on impossible for me to remove it from the system, unless it is organised over a long period of time. As I pointed out to them - what happens if there is a run on the bank? Nobody gets more than a fiver?!?
Can they refuse to give me my money? Can anyone give advice on this?
6. flashman said...
inbreda: have you considered using your money to buy some farming land? (not building land). You can get a return on it that is typically above inflation and it is immune from bank runs or just about anything else. Holding large amounts of cash is not particularly safe (robbers both fiscal and normal).
Other than that find a bank that will let you take your money out and transfer your cash to them
7. icarus said...
inbreda -
Bank: We are reurning your cheque because of insufficient funds.
Customer: Would that be my funds or yours.
8. icarus said...
er make that 'returning'.
9. devo said...
5. inbreda said... I am now scared shtless.
If it's any consolation, so is your bank manager.
10. mountain goat said...
Inbreda - at least you are facing up to this problem now before there is panic. Good luck sorting it out.
11. paul said...
inbreda
My advice is to threaten to kick up a stink about it. The banks are vulnerable at the moment so suggest that you're going to write an open letter to the bank, copying to major broadsheets, explaining that you are very alarmed that they do not have sufficient funds to cover your withdrawals and you are now very concerned about their solvency.
On this basis you would like all of the money back immediately, or you will contact the Banking Ombudsman and FSA to inform them of the situation.
I really wouldn't stand for that from any bank.
12. mark said...
which bank is it?
13. mark wadsworth said...
Inbreda, best of luck with that. I've been in a similar situation and it is quite terrifying while it lasts.
Re the article, it is all hokum. Tax receipts were about £600 billion a year before this all blew up. Economy down 3%, so we'd expect tax receipts to be down 3%, or about £18 billion (or £1.5 billion a month). Sure, there are also half a million more on the dole, let's call it £10,000 each a year for dole and housing benefit, that's £5 billion a year extra spending (or £400 million a month). That's life, and would happen under any government (even when I'm in charge).
The fact that monthly deficits are so much higher than £1.9 billion per month is because the government is spending like crazy on ever more lunatic schemes. (which will promptly cease when I'm in charge).
14. bluebeach said...
Come on Inbreda... name and shame
15. contrails are not a conspiracy (formerly npnh) said...
Ibreda. I agree with Paul. Kick up a very public fuss and send a copy to all the major broadcasters & radio stations as well.
Which bank is it? I might try the same with my savings and advise my friends to do the same.
16. icarus said...
inbreda - would you get any joy if you transferred your funds to accounts at HSBC? It's one of the most strongly capitalised and liquid banks. It quickly complied when the government required banks to beef up their Tier1 capital last year (the injection was funded from internal sources) and it provided significant liquidity to the interbank lending markets at the same time. If you can't withdraw your funds from HSBC that would tarnish their image - and it would probably mean you couldn't withdraw them from any bank.
17. Chilli said...
I think Inbreda is worried about a bank run. Any negative publicity would be very bad....
Can't really blame him, but it does raise an interesting point.
Anyone who is having difficulties with their bank has a vested interest in keeping it quiet. This would only exacerbate the sleeping time bombs in our society. I'm thinking we are heading for vast inflation.
18. jack c said...
@ inbreda Thursday, August 20, 2009 11:36AM
My boy works in the Bank (as I did many years ago) and basically they do not carry as much cash as the general public think. In the smaller branches the tellers wont have more than £600 on the till at anyone time - the bulk is kept in the safe and is governed by time delay locks. The bulk cash deliveries end up in the cassettes to fill the Cash machines (ATM) and in the larger branches this uses up £60k
If you want substantial amounts in cash then it has to be by prior agreement and one of their big concerns is the security risk (not to mention the loss of funds which goes against the branch targets) IMO you have little choice but to syphon the money out over a prolonged period - this will arouse suspicion (drug dealing etc) as they will think it abnormal that anyone would want to carry the secrity risk of holding so much cash (you wont be insured beyond £200 on home insurance)
I could expand further upon this but basically you have rumbled something that most people are blissfully ignorant of.
19. matt_the_hat said...
5. inbreda - what are you doing, have you run out of toilet paper or something??
Open an account at bullionvault deposit your money there and buy gold, at least you will look a bit more flash with a wheelbarrow full of Gold rather than paper when you go to buy a loaf of bread in a few years!!
20. jack c said...
inbreda here is the answer to all of your problems - get your money deposited with this lot - coming to a town near you soon -
Tesco Personal Finance has announced plans to open a customer service centre in Glasgow as part of the supermarket giant's bid to offer full banking services. The centre is due to open in the first half of 2010 and will create over 800 jobs.Tesco Personal Finance has benefited from a £5m grant from the Scottish government to help pay for the set-up of the centre.The company is thought to be interested in buying nationalised lender Northern Rock from the government, and earlier this year revealed plans to open bank branches in 30 of its stores by the end of the year.
Andrew Higginson, chief executive of Tesco Retailing Services, says: “The opening of the customer service centre will be a significant step towards Tesco Personal Finance offering a full banking service.
“Additionally, the creation of over 800 jobs in the current climate cannot be underestimated."
The move is also endorsed by chancellor Alistair Darling.
He says: "This is a strong vote of confidence in Scotland's financial services industry from one of the UK's leading companies.
"It shows that even at this difficult time, the Scottish and wider UK economy are still creating high quality jobs."
21. a saver said...
inbreda, this is truly scary. What was the limit they put on withdrawals? Not that there should be any.
22. jack c said...
a saver - Halifax is typically max £1200 without prior agreement - I'm really surprised you guy's are not fully aware of this procedure.
Maybe S2R1's idea's are not so crazy after all
23. inbreda said...
@6 - farming land is a good idea. I already hold gold and don't want to over expose as I think the market is quite rigged. Cheers
@11 - my stink is a-comin.
@12 Natwest
@17 This was by prior arrangement. I must have sent a letter of intent months ago, and have spent weeks consolidating money into one account for the specific purpose of withdrawal. It is only since giving the final few days notice that I have had the call (on the final day!!). TBH I do not think that the banks can't do it (i.e. I am positive they have the funds - I'm not that wealthy!) I think they just don't want to. They have suggested that it is because of money laundering reasons(some way into the conversation), but it confuses me how my money appears to be clean whilst in the bank, but they won't allow me to withdraw it because... because what...? as soon as it is in my own possession it is dirty money?
@18 - I'm not rich enough to own that much toilet paper. No, I am referring to the almost completely worthless stuff, you know, British Pounds. Used to be "Great" British Pounds before Neu Liebour got in.
@19 - nice to know that ADs idea of a high quality job is a call centre. Hopefully he will be submitting his application soon. Will keep an eye on this but my current thinking is to buy agricultural land. I think the bank will be happy if I do this (which wasn't exactly my aim!) because the seller of the land is likely to bank the money, so it remains in the system. Personally I think the banks are terrified of savers withdrawing money as cash because there will clearly not be enough of it in existence to satisfy the savers. It would expose the fractional reserve banking system for the fraud it is. Why savers sit back and get robbed when the solution is so readily available to them I do not know.
Thanks all
24. debtfree said...
you could transfer the money to multiple accounts and draw the money out of those instead.
What if you told them your closing the account and will no longer require banking services by any bank, therefore a cheque is useless to you. Surely a bank can't hold back your money?
Very interesting indeed, spill the beans :o) who is it.?
25. contrails are not a conspiracy (formerly npnh) said...
Jack C "Maybe S2R1's idea's are not so crazy after all"
Oh yes they are ;o)
26. uncle tom said...
The problem with the tax take is that it has become skewed to skim the cream of the economy, so a small drop in GDP sends the tax receipts plummeting.
But these numbers are really bad - the public spend up 10%, while tax receipts are down by a third..
..utterly reckless governance
27. mrflibble said...
5. inbreda
Scary story you have there, especially since it's Natwest. I nearly asked them for the proceeds of my house sale (paid in cash) a couple of days ago after I got completely cheesed off with a botched ISA transfer.
If you are not bothered about interest on this money and don't like the prospect of holding Sterling then have you considered a Forex account? Oanda are good and you can have a number of sub-accounts in all kinds of currencies. Cash can be moved from one currency to another at the click of a mouse and without you paying a penny, plus you do get a little bit of interest on the money, nearly 3% on AUD and 2% on NZD, which are looking a lot safer than Sterling.
28. jack c said...
@contrails are not a conspiracy (formerly npnh) said (Thursday, August 20, 2009 02:01PM)
just testing to see who would bite (LOL) - I take it you now have a pension and a home?
29. contrails are not a conspiracy (formerly npnh) said...
Jack C “I take it you now have a pension and a home?”
No, far from it! I was winding up some conspiraloons a while back and stuck with the name.
Still no idea what to do with the pension.
On the home front I’m trying an experiment. I got drunk on eBay and accidentally won a 40 foot Winnebago so I’m currently on wheels. I think it makes perfect sense. Everything is in storage and I’m completely out of property for a while.
I currently have a really nice gastro pub in my garden and wonderful views from my living room.
You can’t live cheaper and I’m saving loads.
30. 51ck-6-51x said...
inbreda
- It could well be anti-laundering measures getting in the way; these are not decided only by the bank itself but also by regulators and all those recent deposits from other financial institutions would certainly raise flags. Aside from regulation I would imagine they also think about what they are insured for - and large cash witdrawals are likely prime candidates for not being insured against if you are not in fact you.
The main thing is, generally people do not need large quantities of hard currency unless it for something dodgy. ( Consider trying to deposit the same amount in cash - the bank would probably take it, but would probably contact the authorities too. )
You said, "I would rather it devalued by inflation..."
If you are worried about inflation you should really be positioned in assets rather than Pounds Sterling anyway, so just buy those assets that you think will be most affected by the inflationary effect using your debit card and/or cheques.
31. 51ck-6-51x said...
inbreda
- Of course if you really want to speculate on upcoming inflation just take on a shed load of debt and make your asset purchases with that!
32. debtfree said...
28. contrails are not a conspiracy (formerly npnh) said...
got drunk, live in a mobile home....do you get to watch dags fight ?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2a_ATxfEuLU
33. contrails are not a conspiracy (formerly npnh) said...
I organise the fights! Anyway it has an engine so I’m one (small) step removed from being white trash.
34. inbreda said...
LOL! You live in a motor home without an engine? How small can the step to white trash possibly be?!?!? Be honest canac (formerly nhnp), do you own a hammock, banjo, dog on a rope or scarf, do you read the daily mail, have you got more fillings than teeth, do you wear shoes, do you end every sentence with "y'all", or does your missus say things like "Ahhh wash mahhhself with a rag on a stick"?
no offence intended
35. contrails are not a conspiracy (formerly npnh) said...
has
36. contrails are not a conspiracy (formerly npnh) said...
as opposed to a caravan that is.
37. mountain goat said...
contrails are not a conspiracy (formerly npnh) - won a 40 foot Winnebago
Nice one! (apart from if I get stuck behind you on a narrow road)
38. mr g said...
"Tesco Personal Finance has announced plans to open a customer service centre in Glasgow as part of the supermarket giant's bid to offer full banking services"
Personally I find this prospect frightening, it's probably easier to understand a Bangalore accent than a Glaswegian one.
39. uncle tom said...
Mr G,
I have mixed feelings about these newbie outfits in the financial world. In my early career I worked in The City, at a time when corporate reputation was paramount. Finance and insurance companies worded their contracts tightly, but made huge concessions when customers were clearly good people who trusted the company to take care of them. They only fell back on the detail of their contract wording if they felt they were being defrauded.
Now we have companies springing up who put deceptive wordings into their contracts that they enforce without compassion, with the express intent of giving the least to their clients while appearing to offer the most.
The muttering classes have long maintained that this has been going on since time began, but it's really quite a recent development.
On the other hand, the returns given to pensioners turning their pension pots into an annuity are scandalous. I keep meaning to find out what one has to do to qualify as an annuity provider..