Tuesday, Aug 18, 2009
Scaremongering and innuendo
The Guardian: David Cameron warns spending could lead to Britain defaulting on its debt
David Cameron today raised the stakes in the pre-election battle over government borrowing when he warned that Gordon Brown's anti-recessionary spending could lead to Britain defaulting on its debt.
Posted by devo @ 11:32 PM (1560 views) Add Comment
28 Comments
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1. mark wadsworth said...
Right, that's it.
I hereby write off the Tory party as an even bigger joke than Labour.
2. devo said...
What's your problem, Waddy? Sounds fair enough to me...
Cameron said: "You can get to a level of government debt where, not that it becomes certain that people will cease to lend you the money, but you start running risks of them demanding higher premia, higher interest rates. Or you run the risk of not being able to meet your obligations."
3. paul said...
Labour are agenda-oriented idiots, but please don't think Tories would be any better.
In fact, they have had no experience. For over 10 years now.
4. quiet guy said...
"Cameron used his remarks at the Royal Society of Arts in London to regain the initiative after a senior Tory last week described the NHS as a 60-year mistake."
As soon as I saw this post, I wondered if this had something to do with Hannan's criticisms of the NHS. Cameron's comments about our debt are essentially correct but the timing does look a bit cynical.
I'm not looking forward to the election campaign if this is anything to go by - it will be a sickening muck slinging contest and the winner (loser?) will inherit a massive pile of debt to manage.
5. devo said...
4. quiet guy said... the election campaign... will be a sickening muck slinging contest
Sounds great!
Let battle commence...
6. gone-to-colombia said...
As a fellow of the RSA it irritates me greatly that Cameron should use the John Adam street house as a venue to even mention the possibility. The act of an idiot.
7. devo said...
Can I be the first to suggest that the next election follows the Total Wipeout format, with Richard Hammond and Amanda whatsername providing the commentary?
8. debtfree said...
Think he has a fair point really, the UK is at risk of defaulting on debts. As mentioned a few days ago, when nobody wants to hold sterling anymore because of huge government deficit, then rates will have to rise. But how could Britain service such high debt with rising rates ?
It's a catch 22 situation.
Gordon Brown may have spent his way out of the storm but he doesn't have any fuel left to reach the shore.
9. matt_the_hat said...
"Darling estimated in the budget that Britain would need to borrow £175bn to balance the books this year"
I wonder what the QE amount was again....
10. down wave said...
Years back, I thought that the next election would result in a 'hung paliment', my thoughts were based on the massive level of personal and public debt at that time. Now things are much worse, 6 million with no work, dependent on food imports, It may require a Military Coup to sort this one out?
11. the number cruncher said...
Military coups never sort anything out
They allow secrecy and even more corruption and often lead to tyranny, murder, oppression and civil war.
Our chioce between the toffs of the Bullingdon club and nulab sell out to the city party is not appealing, but thank god we just have corruption and incompetence and not real evil.
12. waitingfor hpc said...
I agree with Dave speaking out. The travesty of national debt will weigh the UK down for years to come. People have a right to know that!
13. 51ck-6-51x said...
Is this really news? It just seems that he is pointing out the bleedin' obvious: higher debt -> greater risk of default. It is not particularly pro-active, just a dig. In a dire situation, a worthwhile aspiring leader would want to not only show the voters that he understands the issues at hand but also point the opposition in the right direction for those voters; the alternative is to let us go to the rails, get voted in and then sit there pointing your finger and tutting whilst helpless to do anything meaningful. What should GB & AD do now DC? I therefore agree with MW @ 1. Politicians, yuck!
14. devo said...
Hey 666, do you know the answer to my question from yesterday's 'Irish bankers' thread?
3. devo said...
Is NAMA the first example of a 'bad bank' being created to mop up the oxymoronic 'toxic assets'?
Tuesday, August 18, 2009 10:26PM
15. uncle tom said...
I don't see why anyone in this camp should be aggrieved at DC saying what he did.
Looks like he has a reasonable grasp of where things are going. Labour are trying to stop the second phase of the crash happening until after the election, even though they know that doing so will make it worse when it happens.
While DC has a political interest in seeing phase two kicking in before people go to the polls, trying to delay the inevitable is not a good strategy for the nation.
I think everyone who contributes here wants to see the end game of this crash happen sooner rather than later -
- looks like DC is with us on that count.
16. stillthinking said...
exactly the point, we should have got it out the way, with 2 years already behind us. whether or not they last to the election is another matter quite aside from New Labour not having demonstrated any plan or intention to pay down the debt at any time. if lab show up well in opinion polls that in itself strips confidence from the UK.
If for example, new lab looked at though they were going to storm through everybody would be sneaking off down to thomas cook travel exchange.
17. britishblue said...
UK sterling is the 4th most traded currency in the Forex markets. Given its international status does it come into the bracket of, 'being too large to fail?' Was the real test last January when it hit 1.02 to the Euro. If it didnt have such a status would the currency be at more of a risk or doesnt this make any difference? Because if it does then this has to have an impact on whether the level of debt issuicidal or whether it is something that can be worked through over many years. Maybe the currency experts on this board can advise in an non political way.
18. vacuouspolitician said...
So HOW is HE going to make the situation better? It's no good telling the public how bad and rotten the situation/government is...we know that...and in fact all the intelligent people in this country worked this out years ago. What we really want to know is what are his policies and how he is going to make this rotten situation better. Also why wasn't he saying this when it really mattered - years ago?
It seems that only Vince Cable dared to question what was happening at a time when most politicians had their snouts in the trough. The great shame (and scandal) is that he is one of a very tiny minority of politicians who are worth listening to, the great majority of politicians don't represent ordinary people. Cameron and Osbourne have all the hallmarks of Blair and Brown...vacuous and untrustworthy.
19. mander said...
Who does establish that in politics you need experience? A new government will need a policy to follow not experience. If debt is the disease why not try an operation when you find the disease instead of waiting for your children to operate you when it already may be too late?
1.More debt = higher house prices; 2. less debt = lower house prices. Are the Conservatives not bothered about the category's 1 vote, the home owners, second home owners, BTL ?
20. uncle tom said...
mander,
Politics being politics, I doubt that any political party will have much to say about housing come the election - the subject is just too dangerous politically.
If pressed, they will all express concern at the difficulties facing FTB's, will all pledge more affordable housing, but will also pledge to protect the countryside.
The shadow housing spokesman, Grant Shapps, is an interesting character. He likes the limelight, and is clearly ambitious, politically. He has always answered my emails promptly, although he is smart enough not to get drawn on difficult issues.
If he gets made housing minister after the election, I can't see him settling for a 'do nothing' agenda, and I think he will realise the economic benefits of an accelerated house building program.
My worry is that our Dave will give him a different brief after the election...
21. mark wadsworth said...
Devo, he riles me because the underlying message (reduce government spending and waste) is a very sensible one. But to say that this will lead to the government defaulting is scaremongering nonsense. As a sovereign nation, the UK can always print the money to repay the debts. So he leaves himself open to ridicule, and hence by association leaves his underlying message (which is perfectly valid) either open to ridicule as well or just completely ignored.
22. 51ck-6-51x said...
devo said, "Hey 666, do you know the answer to my question from yesterday's 'Irish bankers' thread?"
- I have commented on the original post.
23. mander said...
uncle tom,
Dave is pro building more houses as per http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/cameron-challenges-tories-on-housing-471492.html and I do not think he will waste his time with "housing shortage" stories just because the wealthy from his party dictate so. There is a real risk that the gargantuan debt will explode right when he comes to power to make him look inefficient in his future policies.
24. Ndg said...
There is no debt. When are you people going to wake up to the 'substance' of this bogus financial scam.
25. uncle tom said...
If all hell lets loose the day after the election, it won't be the new boys that the public will blame.
What will worry DC is the prospect of things looking reasonably under control as he takes office, and then going pear-shaped six months later.
Ted Heath's government was crucified by the legacy it inherited, for just that reason.
26. Orcusmaximus said...
Mark @21 "to say that this will lead to the government defaulting is scaremongering nonsense. As a sovereign nation, the UK can always print the money to repay the debts."
Are you seriously suggesting we can print our way out of this with no repercussions? Why not print enough to make ourselves millionaires while we're at it?
No. Brown's plan is to spend spend spend so as to not get wiped out at the next election. The more he spends, the better his election results, and the worse state the country will be in after the next election. But that will be someone else's problem.
The only defence against what the Market Oracle call this 'economic scorched earth' policy is to raise public awareness until there is a big enough public outcry against it. Seems to me that this is what Cameron is trying to do, and good luck to him.
As an aside, damn Vince Cable for being on the wrong team!
27. uncle tom said...
"damn Vince Cable for being on the wrong team"
There is nothing to stop a ruling party offering a senior ministerial post to an MP from another party, and it can actually serve to do more harm to the party from whom the minister was drawn than to the party of government.
If I were DC I'd be quite tempted to offer VC the job of chancellor, but not before the day after the election..
28. uncle tom said...
PS - And I wouldn't put the offer in writing, in case he declined..