Friday, Jul 03, 2009
Indian IT staff taking British jobs at Lloyds Banking Group
Mail Online: Indian IT staff taking British jobs at Lloyds Banking Group
Hundreds' of Indian contractors are being brought to the UK by state-backed Lloyds Banking Group, which is using them to slowly replace British IT workers. At the same time Llloyds Banking Group announced the biggest single jobs cull yet under its integration programme as it axed another 2,113 workers, taking the total cuts so far to 7,500.
Posted by phil9134 @ 02:13 PM (1004 views) Add Comment
23 Comments
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1. 51ck-6-51x said...
Typical racism from The Mail. A mobile workforce is a good thing, and it's hardly a surprise that the domicile union would pipe up about this now is it?
2. mander said...
I am not surprised Indians to take IT jobs in such a big company. They are probably better in IT and not necessarily cheap labour.
3. techieman said...
mander i am not being racist but out of interest where are you from? The reason i ask is (from various posts) english doesnt seem to be your mother tongue. Not that it makes a difference i am merely curious.
4. the number cruncher said...
This worries me more than anything else about the House price crash/recession. That the right wing media stir up a little national socialism, in the hope of setting a right wing agenda in the turbulent political battles ahead.
We will see the Mail and Express do a lot more National Socialist type stories as the under/unemployed search for an easy excuse to their economic problems and explore how capitalism has failed them.
5. techieman said...
protectionism through the back door im afraid. One good thing you have to say about the EU ideal is it is a free market in trade and (human) resources.
6. hpwatcher said...
I wonder what '51ck-6-51x' and 'the number cruncher' will be saying once they lose their jobs to cheaper foreign workers?
Of course, the reason why overseas workers can work more cheaply is because they don't have absolutely massive mortgages to pay...in that respect UK workers simply can't be competitive and are finished.......sorry folks!
7. nubbers said...
As I have a lot more time on my hands due to the importation of cheap Indian labour into the IT market, I find myself wondering if we could replace other jobs with cheap Indians. If we replaced all the bankers and civil servants responsible for regulating them with cheaper Indians, surely this country could save a fortune, and its not like they could make any worse a job of it than the locals.
8. layers said...
I don't know where you guys are coming from, but to lose 5k+ middle-class jobs is NOT a good thing! Where else are grads supposed to go now - at least IT and business consulting employed bright minds who work very hard, but heck just let that tier go to. When the f**k are we going to get rid of most of our MPs - they're not necessary in their current numbers.and we should have far greater protectionism, not less.
9. Richk said...
Importing foreign labour in a massive crash with unemployment skyrocketing is like throwing petrol on a fire - guaranteed to destroy our society.
But Lloyds don't care about society, they only care about money and big bonuses-that dream is over for good though they don't know it yet...
10. The Baldman said...
I agree with layers....So a company kept alive by public money is now reducing its Uk workforce. Does not seem Ok to me.
11. Neil B said...
This article is a little biased - it fails to mention that there is a huge skills gap of 20 years in IT related professions in the UK. There have been several posts on this site highlighting this. India has some excellent people: So what if they are asked to come to Europe to fill a skills gap? It has never stopped Brits from working in other countries.
12. Philip9134 said...
51ck-6-51x and the number cruncher, I am so sorry to upset your delicate sensibility's so i have found several over sites running the same story firstly the neo fascist e financial careers http://news.efinancialcareers.co.uk/newsandviews_item/newsItemId-19972#viewAllComments
Secondly the brown shirt wearing computer weekly http://www.computerweekly.com/Articles/2009/07/03/236752/lloyds-offshoring-skills-concerns-point-to-industry-wide.htm
We do have a skills shortage in the computer industry however, there are thousands of graduates with the skills looking for a job. Measures like this only exasperate the problem.
13. layers said...
In my experience there isn't a skills gap at all. I meant to add previously that I'm in favour of balance and that wholesale off-shoring just doesn't work practically, and that there is a cultural issue which supports this. No wonder they're being on-shored. And from experience in oz these 'employees' are paid a fraction of the wage compared to locals, but the government's loyalty must and should be to its electorate, let alone the fact that the tax payer is now effectively funding lloyds. I'm so close to closing my account with them but will hold off until this can be verified!
14. stillthinking said...
Probably UK I.T. workers would be extremely competitively priced if they could pay for accomodation for families at the same cost of mobile workers.
Surely the point is that the Indian worker comes over but supports his family in India, whereas domestic workers have their families in the UK and are exposed to much higher UK taxation as a result, to say nothing of property costs. The conclusion is to move your family out of the UK, in which case what are we paying the taxes for?
15. Riskreward said...
Outsourcing was the first phase. second phase insourcing. Auto Contractors like myself went through this phase 10 years ago. Replaced on cost not quality. All the OEM'S learnt the hard way. Instead of paying a ten pound once, they pay five pound three times. False economy. Bean counters love the headline figures until the results start coming in.
16. techieman said...
i think you guys should spend a little bit less time ITting and a bit more time economicsising if you are struggling with why protectionism - it be bad.
17. stillthinking said...
Sorry, one more post.
I don't think there is a skills gap at all, although I did use to I suppose. My concern is that we are all told about skill gap this and skill gap that, but this is over a ludicrous debt based expansion. Specifically for I.T. workers, as the city of London should have only grown at the underlying rate of the economy i.e. 2 or 3%, but because of the debt have expanded enormously in a sector which has an unusually high requirement for I.T. workers.
Also NuLabour have pumped unbelievable funds into various failure I.T. projects, and add to that in the boom times the inadequacy fo the state sector was fixed with private contractors, whether working individually or within consultancy companies, another pumping of money into I.T.
I have a really big worry (I work in I.T.) which is that our pumped up fake economy has in fact vastly -overstated- the requirements for I.T. workers, and as a consequence we have been suckered into a classic position of rampant oversupply. I think there is evidence for this point of view, as you sometimes read of bulk notices being sent to contractors informing them of dramatic take it or leave it salary reductions. There isn't much of a way out of worker oversupply though.
I hope I am wrong but I fear worker oversupply. I don't really care if Indian is prepared to work for less than me, but I do care -immensely- if I am liable for extensive taxes while my labour competition is not. (so I do care..)
Time will tell.
18. braindeed said...
15. stillthinking said...
I hope I am wrong but I fear worker oversupply. I don't really care if Indian is prepared to work for less than me, but I do care -immensely- if I am liable for extensive taxes while my labour competition is not. (so I do care..)
It's always a shock when free markets undercut your own position.....cheap foreign cars? - lovely........cheap foreign hotels? - we love them
cheap foreign IT contactors? - shock horror....it's not fair!!!
Just ask your builder how he feels about our Polish friends - it's harsh but we all love a bargain.
19. stillthinking said...
braindeed,
As it happens, the reason I am against imported labour is because I see it as a crude form of wage control by New Labour, in order to make the nice decade. There are other problems, if you don't allow wages to rise from labour shortages then you don't encourage new people to get involved in that line of work. I also don't really see that the conditions for overseas workers in the UK are reciprocated by other countries, aside from encouraging migration to a country that isn't even food sufficient.
Certainly it is true that measuring family against families, UK based families have a heavier tax burden, in which case it isn't even a free competitive market.
But my point is that even if all foreign I.T. workers got banned and deported tomorrow, we might find that over the last ten years with the expansion of the state and the banks, that there are too many I.T. workers. I am guessing you think that there is a lot of money in I.T. but I don't think there is, perhaps around 33K average in London (not far off median for the whole country) with some specific to banking sectors topping out at about 50-60K. I think it is quite likely that there are many UK workers both private and state doing jobs because of fake demand which won't exist in the future. What is worse, it isn't even clear which UK jobs are actually real sustainable ones without debt.
20. Woocky said...
The problem is that you canThe problem is that you can’t run this country without foreign workers.
We are multiplying much, much quicker than UK middle class,
who is a slave of the banking system.
You can’t afford family because of carrier and mortgage.
One child after late thirty is a maximum you can have.
And WE – strangers – are overtaking this land. Slowly, slowly - without any violence.
21. mander said...
Hi techieman,
I am not Indian but I am outsourcing myself IT services abroad and I know for a fact that Indians are good in IT and not necessarily cheap.
22. Landedgentry said...
Nothing new, My mum had a nice job set up in the square mile with Barclays Bank in 1970 upon arrival in this country. It was offered to her as she was an existing member of staff in East Africa with an exemplary record.
P.S. I am Indian.
23. shipbuilder said...
This is the reality of globalisation - not the textbook fantasy that is promoted. Large corporations are free to scout for the cheapest labour, meanwhile countries become no more than competing labour suppliers - in a race to the bottom with 'competitive' wages, low corporation taxes and subsidies, yet also having to provide education, healthcare and infrastructure. One has to wonder how anyone can justify this one-sided scenario?