Tuesday, Jan 27, 2009
A view from across the Channel
Guardian: How Britain lost its way
Britain from a French perspective. Lots of fair points but some may find them controversial.
Posted by letthemfall @ 02:56 PM (1203 views) Add Comment
18 Comments
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1. Crunchy said...
Britain from a French perspective. Lots of fair points but some may find them controversia
Controversial? That's polite!
2. Neo-serf said...
"Here, however, the boundaries between the major parties have been all but eroded. This drift to the centre, combined with the weakness of the extremes, has anaesthetised British politics. So the British don't vote very much. They don't object very much. They don't dream very much. The human has been replaced by the consumer. And humanism by pragmatism. Pragmatism, in today's Britain, is all. Cost-efficiency is what counts. Here, you're actively encouraged to denounce your neighbour, for not paying road tax or putting a bin out early or dishonestly claiming a benefit.
Closed-circuit TV surveillance is rife. There are councils that spy on their taxpayers as if they were common criminals; others that submit benefit claimants to a lie-detector test. And while it's capable of mislaying the personal data of millions of its constituents, the home office proposes to set up a database holding information on every telephone call made, every email sent, and every website visited by every single British citizen. None of this would be possible in France; there would be rioting in the streets."
Says it all.
3. jamonit said...
Oh yes! Shame it took a Frenchman to say it.
There may be some hope though: http://www.resurgence.org/magazine/article2736-The-English-Resistance.html
4. jamonit said...
Oh, and also, at least this lot are British.... http://www.neweconomics.org/gen/hottopics_well-being.aspx
5. japanese uncle said...
You have a growing obesity problem. Alcoholism is gaining a grip on the middle classes. ........... What is man's place in a world where money and the media show are all that matter? What, in short, are your values now?
------------------------------------------
Nothing more to say.
The first step for this society should be to get rid of the two cursed phrases, 'celebrity' and 'property ladder'. The second step should be to offset/reverse every policy Silky Tuberculosis and Crash G have implemented since the goddamn year of 1997 (following the witchcraft cast by the Milksnatcher in the 80's). Then this country should be a much better place.
6. cyril said...
@JU - which political era would you suggest we return to?
You don't like NuLabour (who does?) or M Thatcher. Did you prefer the 1970s with Heath/Callaghan and the 3-day week?
7. paul said...
"You have a growing obesity problem."
"In France ... there is a greater respect for gastronomic traditions and drinking levels may have increased"
Ah, I see what he did there. While both France and the UK have an obesity problem, in France they appreciate the food more.
"Whole groups of young people are losing their bearings, becoming cut off from society, joining gangs, turning to knives."
Right, so the disenfranchised youth of the Parisien ghettos where unemployment is over 30% and riots are increasingly commonplace have now decided forget about all that nonsense, go home, brush their teeth and get to bed early??!
"The French may believe ... the crisis, debt, unemployment weigh heavily on them. But French benefits, French paid holidays, French pensions provide real, heavy-duty protection."
Ah. So back to reality, France has much the same problems as the UK. Only much much more unemployment and civil unrest. And those pensions? Well in case you haven't heard, pensions are a bit of a Ponzi scheme too. Those pensions may look like solid silver, but all it takes is for the stock market to jitter, a chronic lack of entrants and all of a sudden the silver looks cheap plated, and yellowing.
8. jack c said...
@cyril - JU makes valid points however you have raised something that I have been quietly thinking about for sometime now which is the flip flopping between Conservative and Labour Governments. My first real memory of an election win was Ted Teeth back in 1970 - the 3 day week followed and Heath was subsequently ousted by a Labour win under Harold the rat in 1974. Wilson resigned mid-term (1976) and the unelected Jim Callaghan took over and the Winter of discontent eventually took hold. Callaghan was trampled in the election of 1979 by a triumphant Thatcher the milksnatcher and the Tories survived roughly 18 years of continuous (no mention of sleaze) Government. Things could only get better as Teflon Tony & Co swept to power - the Silky Teflon won 3 elections but was smart enough to eventually hand over his keys to Crash Gordon safe in the knowledge that the sh*t was really going to hit the fan with the economy etc...
Essence of the tale - I cant honestly say that in my lifetime there have been any really great era's
9. gone-to-colombia said...
If it took the USA one hundred and fifty years to emerge from slavery how long might it take the UK to recover from the loss of empire?
10. japanese uncle said...
cyril:
I prefer three-day week, though I have limited knowledge about the way of life during Heath/Callaghan era, excep that by reading. Salaries must have been much lower, but then HP was no more than 3000-5000 pounds, I guess. Save IRA campaign, life may have been more peaceful, more bicycles on the road than cars, maybe.
In the meantime, I had a chance to hear about the lives of ordinary people in France (Paris) from a French IT worker recently. He was severely complaining the exorbitant rent in Paris, eg over 1200 euro/month well above 50% of his net salary, and that for a tiny studio flat, as well as increasing pressure for higher performance from the employers. Unless you are born to wealthy family, life seems hard in France (in Paris especially), as well. Also a bottle of mineral water in Charles de Gaulle airport costs you five euros.
11. str 2007 said...
Interesting views JU, even in France it's getting expensive. The person in question though could buy a nice house in commuting distance for less than £1000 euros per month.
You'd struggle to do the same within commuting distance of London.
Further, there is a plentiful supply of building plots all over France with planning permission for about 30-40K euros.
The price in England or even Scotland for similar would be at least double and in South East England you can't get any sensible plot for less than £250k.
BTW I tried several times with email address JU and I couldn't get it to send so I must have written it down incorrectly - sorry.
12. letthemfall said...
France and Britain both have their good and bad points I think.
JU, things were pretty bad in the 70s, although there were fewer cars and not so many super-rich. To be fair to the current govt - and as jack c's comments indicate, all govts have been largely unsuccessful - they did introduce the minimum wage and child tax credits, which went some way to helping the poorest, even if the laissez-faire policies towards banks did the opposite in far greater measure.
13. plato said...
Very difficult one this. It is impossible to talk about things we don't experience with the same knowledge as those we do. So whether it's a different time or different locality we haven't actually been in,it's best to listen to or think like someone like JU who relates his experience and is honest about his limited knowledge as above.
At the moment degeneration is taking place. Coincidentally this very day I was asked by a Greek from Thessaloniki why the British youngsters (and not so young) on holiday behave so disgustingly (details unprintable). I said ....no religion....no education....no family.....no conscience,etc..... but those that appreciate these qualities are decent people. I know what he was thinking: 'Like father,like son'.
So the view from a distance encompasses all but is only partial. It's too late for us (you've got it or you haven't) so best concentrate on the children.
Smaller local schools.Compulsory sports individual and team (preferably tough for those that like it). Field trips to all places of culture,nature and science (home and abroad if possible). Compulsory gardening and all the usual lessons. Combined with all the things JU pointed out. That should do the trick.
14. inflation is eating my savings said...
Don't dismiss everything Wilson did- he effectively stopped capital punishment.
The last few remaining possibilities (mainly military offences and treason) were outlawed by Blair.
Paris is a city for parades and military. Everyone below lawyer level lives in a 35 sq metre apartment. It is incredibly claustrophobic. London is a much more natural, organically designed place. A half litre of beer is 5-6 quid in Paris. The food is dramatically over-rated, and ridiculously overpriced. The average worker has a cannot be bothered attitude. Corruption is rife. At a risk of being sexist, in my field, the number of women in France who sleep their way to the top, leaving less devious snakes with more talent behind, is shocking. According to a recent Economist poll, they drink as much as us- although more through the day. French girls are better looking though.
15. montesquieu said...
The failure of this article is not in its critique of the UK (which is spot on) but in its talking up of France, which has its own problems, different ones in some cases, but probably just as many.
It reminds me a little of the arguments Scots make (myself among them in past years) about having more 'community' than England, or a better education system, which often degenerate when you look at them, if not into complete tosh, then certainly as sweeping generalisations masking complex arguments ... shades of grey, old perceptions vs current trends, differing modes of measurement, the complications of language, historical perspective and subtly different value systems.
Many of this guy's criticisms ring 100% true and he has only undermined his argument by praising France and allowing his detractors to pick away at his argument through rubbishing his chosen comparisons.
16. Markus said...
Spot on, as far as the analysis of the state of Britain is concerned. However it's wasted time to read a continental journalist stating the obvious about the UK. What is needed as a very tiny first step onto the road to recovery is a whole army of British Journalists writing exactly the same. They will probably loose their jobs but someone in this country will just have to do it. Only when the country starts to analyse itself and come to the same conclusions, will it be able to start shaping its future. At the moment we live in complete darkness and a future is unimaginable.
17. japanese uncle said...
str2007
You can ask Phil or Titanic Captain for my e-mail address.
18. Agentimmo said...
inflation is eating my savings said...
your view of Paris is one that most tourists hold, which is a pity. And quoting prices in sterling only shows how much the UK govt has trashed the pound. FYI - a Parisian will have a half-litre (over a pint) for 4-5€ max. This price hasn't budged for about 4 years. I know, as I work in the city regularly.
While housing costs have rocketed since 2002, due to the mad HPI....expect these to fall back soon as the bubble bursts. But even so, Paris is still cheaper to rent in than London. I know, as I did it back in 2005-06 (rent in London, that is). Astronomical !
I think the poster "montesquieu" sums up the whole debate succinctly. Neither city is "best", but each has its charm and faults.
Finally, your sexist comments were just that...sexist.