Saturday, Dec 13, 2008
The first credit-crunch riots
Independent: Are the Greek riots a taste of things to come?
Bringing together youths in their early twenties struggling to survive amid mass youth unemployment and schoolchildren swotting for highly competitive university exams that may not ultimately help them in a treacherous jobs market, the events of the past week could be called the first credit-crunch riots. Greece's riots are a sign of the economic times. Other countries should beware.
Posted by mytimeisnigh @ 05:49 PM (1344 views) Add Comment
29 Comments
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1. paul said...
I should think if we continue to see the indebted bailed out to the detriment of the prudent, yeah we'll see this here too.
2. mountain goat said...
I think Iceland leads the race for first credit crunch riots, well at least protests.
3. drewster said...
Greece, like many European countries, has specific domestic issues irrespective of the credit crunch.
The employment market is ossified. The cushy well-paid public sector takes all the best candidates while heavy bureaucracy stifles the private sector. The universities provide a poor-quality education. The result is that young, educated, unemployed greeks don't see a future for themselves. From their perspective, rioting doesn't seem so bad.
4. plato said...
There is a shortage of employment for young workers Europe-wide, yet there is a concerted effort to make or keep older people of retirement age working. The figure projected for European retired persons is 1 for every 2 workers having to support them effectively. The whole system is therefore in a mess principally because public sector pensions have taken the lions share and State pensions have not been managed efficiently. At the same time cheap labour is imported from poor countries. There are many arguments for and against this,but the main point is this exacerbates the situation.
We have an almighty problem building and a collapsing economic system,so yes, this is a taste of things to come.
5. stillthinking said...
Time to get a government job. Think of the numerous sick days. Free training. Flexi-time so you can get Friday off. Pension (if there is one).
Government jobs being cushy isn't unusual in the world.
6. fjcruiser said...
The amazing thing is Greece benefit more than it pays by being in the Euro. But Joe Blogg does not see it this way. Jobs are lost, yound Greek go and work abroad so the country is left with older people who feel they taxes are useless. Interestingly, like Ireland 20 years ago, these two countries were way behing the rest and quite poor in comparison. Ireland walk up and decoided to attract new businesses. Greece did not, they could have, instead they lived on farm subsidies.
Of course, seing riots now is a sign of what could come to the UK soon. Certainly, a run on banks is not to be discountedwhen people realise their money could be at risk under GB's leadership.
7. phdinbubbles said...
The public sector always looks cushy during downturns - i can remember lots of people going on about moving into the public sector during the last recession for the obvious reasons of job security, holidays, pensions, etc. I'm going the opposite way in a couple of months - i'm a bit perverse.
8. Earthstick said...
Rioting in the streets was expected in european cities by 2007
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10. Earthstick said...
I am told by a Greek colleague at work that these demonstrations happen every year in Greece. It is the anniversary of when democracy was restored in Greece following a dictatorship from 1967 to 1973.
11. bidin'matime said...
A few things came together in my mind today - I was listening to Any Questions and the labour minister (Phil Willis) was making an arrogant and ignorant defence of the government selective leaking of data on knife crime – Jonathon Dimbleby asked the audience to raise a hand if they believed government statistics and not one person raised their hand. When asked who did not believe them, almost all raised their hands.
Earlier there was Livingstone this morning in an interview about the Menezes killing, telling us that the members of the public on the train who said that the police did not shout a warning were probably only half awake and the jury was wrong to believe them and not the police (who now, incidentally, seem to be justifying their position by saying that you can't give a warning to a suicide bomber as he will detonate – so did they or didn’t they..? What concerns me most about that case is that it seems clear that the police lied under oath, but no one seems to care…)
Then there are public sector pensions – I started warning 10 years ago that there would be 2 classes of pensioner – the public sector, with gold plated pensions from age 60 and the rest of us having to work until we drop, both to pay for our own keep and for theirs…
All these things, whilst apparently very different problems, all point in the direction of civil unrest. Okay, so the pensioner may not riot in the streets, but they will give succour to the younger generation who do and, as we know from Northern Ireland, Iraq etc., without the support of the otherwise law-abiding public, the authorities don’t stand a chance of maintaining law and order.
No wonder they are at the same time bringing in ever tougher laws to quash dissent…
12. phdinbubbles said...
@bidin'matime
I care about what happened with the de Menezes inquest - you're not the only one - I am extremely angry and especially about Livingstone's defence. The scale of the incompetence of the police is shocking enough in the first place, but it seems like almost every single one of them lied, on oath, to cover their own tracks. And Livingstone defends it!!!! And Cressida Dick is promoted after the incident?! I think that the general population is resigned to the fact that nobody takes responsibility for anything any more and there is an excuse for absolutely anything. The accounts of all the witnesses on the tube train corroborated each other - it was clearly the police that were lying. To think that these incompetent, unrepentant, remorseless idiots are in charge of the capital's law and order is beyond belief.
13. japanese uncle said...
phdinbubble
I smell something much more sinister behind the apparent 'execution' of this young Brazilian. Seven bullets in the head cannot be explained simply by fear and apprehension, as he was not wearing thick jacket at all (despite the fabricdated estimony to the contrary) in which to hide a bomb. He may have come across something behind the 7-7, whether knowingly or by accident. Also he did not look like just another electrician at all. He looked very much like a well-trained military personnel or police officer.
14. bidin'matime said...
Phd – yeah- the more I think about the case, the more it disturbs me – there are basically two factors – the cork up (sorry - the web police wont let me use the male hen word..) and the cover up – we all make mistakes and it’s clear that Dick screwed up big time, but as you say, instead of a dressing down, she gets promoted.
But if we accept that anyone can screw up, the simple fact is that, if we can't rely on the police to tell the truth, then society is doomed. There was that case recently of the squaddie who had had a few too many and was beaten up by a group of police – they all said he attacked them – then even when they saw the CCTV images that proved otherwise, the magistrates court found him guilty – fortunately for him, the appeal judge threw it out, but again, why are the police not now being locked up for perjury?? And what of the magistrates who clearly thought the police could do not wrong? Presumably if there had been a group of on-lookers to back the squaddie, they would still have believed the police – perhaps the judge would have too. So how many people get prosecuted as a result of police lies??
If it makes me, a (late) middle aged chartered accountant, feel like taking to the streets, then what does it do for the youngsters, soon to find lots of spare time on their hands…?
15. Urban Bear said...
These youth are blindly lashing out at the modern society, but do not understand how this fiction works, like in the film The Matrix, you should not try to bend the spoon, but adapt and learn how to change yourself.
Many, if not all, of the governments are secretly bankrupt, the world government is in control of them, we natural persons are the only entities which have value, our signatures are priceless, we are deliberately kept ignorant of our true worth by our so-called leaders, and many other bankrupt corporations, so that we can be preyed upon by these pirates in suits and uniforms. It is time we got educated to the fictions of this world, so we can reclaim our natural power, and properly defend ourselves against the absurdity of being treated as vessels on some fictional sea (Admiralty Law).
We should not have to pay extortionate amounts for land that is lawfully ours or pay usurious fictional mort-gages for buildings on that land, for that is the work of bankrupt and greedy men (theft of the peoples' land by aristocrats, royalty and rich men).
See http://www.tpuc.org/ and related sites, for natural persons who are learning the basic rules of modern society, a game most natural persons do not understand, so get needlessly hurt.
16. titaniccaptain said...
@phd and ju
I think we all forget about Dr Kelly too quick aswell..............that poor man..........check out the history of his case.....................if he killed himself then I am Lord Lucan
17. japanese uncle said...
titaniccaptain
I did not forget Dr. Kelly at all. His case was much more obvious than that of Robin Cook and John Smith, was it not?
18. titaniccaptain said...
@ JU
I just found his case the most disturbing.............there he was a public figure.......killed right before our eyes virtualy.......and we forgot.........
19. paul said...
No, I think Earthstick has it.
This is a regular occurence in Greece. There's nothing more truthful than the word from the street (without wanting to sound twee about it). These riots have been picked up by the media as symptomatic of something different this year, but its actually something that would have happened despite a credit crunch.
Move along there I reckon.
20. crunchy said...
The introduction of UK's high powered Taser Gun has been confirmed.
May shed some light on this subject.
21. phdinbubbles said...
@Highland Property Bubble
"I'd personally rather shoot myself than work in the public sector. Such people are nothing but parasites."
I can only presume that your contribution to society matches your contribution to this debate. Who's the parasite?
22. Eternal Sceptic said...
When the people that physically create wealth have to work until they drop, or if very lucky have a few years on a paltry pension, whereas the public sector, that spend every waking moment dreaming up new ways of stifling wealth creation and retire early on bloated index linked pensions,then there is a conflict. Thus far this conflict has only been voiced as odd mutterings in the bar over a few pints. But, if unemployment rockets, so will the conflict between the electorate and the government. We live in an extremely strained democracy where out elected representaives do not even want us to us to see their expense claims, and we are governed by a prime minister that was not elected. The government proceeds with it's master plan, totally oblivious to whatever the electorate may think.
The war against terror is merely a sham to destroy civil liberties. No doubt army bases are already prepared for use as holding tanks whenever the cohesion of society breaks. Its probably time for an outbreak of something rather nasty. I for one will not be taking the flu jab.
23. d'oh said...
bidin'matime @10.04 Yes, it is amazing:
(1) How CCTV videos go missing when they don't show what those in power want them to show.
(2) How even when photographs and video footage are shown, they are ignored.
I had the displeasure of a civil case where I had photographs and cctv video taken at the time of an accident which clearly demonstrated the whole pack of lies put forward by the other side...it went 50/50 and it was looking like I was going to lose at one stage. What goes through magistrates/judges heads sometimes baffles me.
24. Highland Property Bubble said...
#20
I'm sorry but what does my contribution to society have to do with my view of public sector parasites?
I pay my taxes, including my 30% contribution through council tax to keep these leeches in their gold-plated final salary pension schemes.
The weight of the public sector burden on this country is an absolute disgrace.
25. crunchy said...
24. Highland Property Bubble
crunchy: I think you have knocked the wrong door. Try number 21.
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