Friday, Dec 19, 2008
Moral outrage hits the masses
Daily Express: Banks punish savers
Banks are today accused of penalising careful savers by slashing interest rates by up to 4 per cent. They are using Bank of England rate cuts as a “smokescreen” to chop the interest on savings accounts, said one critic. Retired people who rely on savings growth to top up their pensions are suffering as a result. Some 76 banks and building societies have slashed interest rates on 150 savings products since the start of December. Critics say the banks are hurting pensioners who have worked hard to build up retirement nest eggs. They fear that low savings rates will discourage younger people from putting money aside for a rainy day. 
Posted by drewster @ 02:11 AM (1840 views) Add Comment
51 Comments
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1. Saver said...
Guys,
The current debacle was brought about mainly by the low interest rates touted and championed by Uncle Sam to the erest of the world.
The past decade of low interest rates resulted in people taking out their money from banks to put into the property and stock markets creating the massive bubble, the people borrowed money from the banks to speculate in prop and stock markets, and the people borrowed to spend ahead since their stocks/properties rose.
Champions of low interest rates are now saying again that ow interest rates will save us!!!
What utter spin this is!! What kind of economic monster did we create from low interest rates? A mammoth property and stock market!!
If they had kept interest rates high, the opposite would have happened and the property/stock markets would still have risen based on healthy economic growth naturally, albiet at a slower pace. There would have been room now to manoevre from the high rates. Now that that monster is beyond our control, the greedy bankers are still prescribing the same toxic mix by low interest rates and bailouts/rescues.
This is worse than the communist model!!
Savers aside, I say kick out the current goons in control...................the stock and property markets have to go through this painful phase and plumb their bottoms before they can heal. Any attempts to further mess with it will only delay its healing.
2. hpwatcher said...
Great comment:-
As "Gormless" Brown well knows and as Marx pointed out, the easiest way to destroy a nation is to destroy its currency. By pursuing his policies of tax plus borrow-and-spend on non-wealth-creating programmes with state employed, non-job employees he is transferring wealth from wealth-creators and giving spending power to people who create nothing. Added to this by, furthermore, compunding the situation by massively inflating the money supply he is ceating a worthless 'fiat' currency - condemming our children to state servitude and poverty.
I wonder if a HPC'er wrote it?
3. a saver said...
Yeah, how would GB like his pension income cut by two-thirds?
I have been trying to get my head around the enormity of what GB has promised:
1. Continue bailing out the banks while they continue with their bonuses and perks
2. Pay people's mortgages if they lose their job
3. Underwrite mortgage payments for people taking a mortgage holiday
4. Underwrite loans to businesses
5. Co-buy houses with people and take the hit when they devalue
Can someone help, I am bound to have forgotten something?
Seems like time to dust off my NZ passport....
4. debtfree said...
Take your money out the bank and hit THEM where it hurts.
Whats the point in letting a bank use your money as collateral only to pay you some stupid amount back a year later and then taxed on top !
5. bystander said...
HMG is desperate for us all to spend, saving can wait until after the great British consumer has been forced to save GB and his miracle economy. Keeping sterling stable might also help to encourage foreign investment in the country. Euro visitors are already getting 30% reductions on everything from a year ago. Expect to see many more european visitors in the UK enjoying the cheap beer , cheaper shopping etc. in the holiday resorts and heritage sights over the coming years. However all of the above is necesitated by the eurozone avoiding a long and protracted recession, which I think is highly unlikely. So the UK and Europe will remain screwed, one with a currency too strong the allow for trade and one with a currency too weak to encourage investment. Brilliant
6. mrmickey said...
Well the more I think about the more screwed as country we are I just don't see any way out. There will types of people left those who work for the state & those on the dole.
7. pelethar said...
Stunning chutzpah from the Express, who have spent the last two years screaming for interest rate cuts.
8. Will said...
The great 'UK plc' is bust.
We are not living in a Free Country, but possibly the most controlled State in the World. Who said Communism was dead ?
9. Will said...
With all this going on, how on Earth do Winkworths believe that house prices will recover in the Spring ?
10. holding out said...
A case where "Shoot the messenger" is justified.
11. crunchy said...
2008 Crash
2009 Collapse/Depression.. Inflation all worse than 1929
That's another cut and paste for later.
Keep dreaming folks
Please get prepared, please! Stop lookind at the silly details and see the PICTURE.
12. inbreda said...
3. debtfree said...
Take your money out the bank and hit THEM where it hurts.
Agreed. We should start a petition and all agree that if the government wont guarantee our savings from inflation (the rate he is printing money), we will, on a specified date, remove all our money from all banks.
13. Yogibear123 said...
Hey Crunchy,
My take exactly.
I am looking to go long oil, commods, pm's sometime in 2009, depending on how far and fast this scenario unfolds. Timing is also dependent on Fx. All in cash since March 2007, so happy for now.
What is your strategy?
Yogi x
14. sold 2 rent 1 said...
Talking of the bigger PICTURE, Calleman's model is really coming together quite nicely.
In summary, the Earth is divided into East and West, like the brain is left and right; the West is the left (logical) side and the East is the right (creative) side.
When the left and right brain are out of syn then we have a badly performing person, the same is true of Earth.
At the moment power is shifting from the West to the East on the Earth, but also power is shifting from the left brain to right brain in the human population
I was reading the reviews on Amazon of the book "Imagining the Tenth Dimension: A New Way of Thinking About Time and Space". The book was written by a musician with no formal science background. The book was panned by the mainstream physicists as garbage, but the author was merely trying to view something from a totally different perspective. Is this so bad?
On Earth we have a clash of civilisations
In science we have a clash of ideas with right brain thinking people challenging traditional left brain scientific views. These areas include free energy systems, medical treatments, and the multi-dimensional theories.
15. crunchy said...
9. inbreda and all
Get it whilst it is still there. and hide it.
Think about how you will do this the best way.
Get prepared. You will not be sorry if you do it right.
The more money is devalued the more precious it becomes later .
Dont loose heart keep your money you are going to need it!!
16. sold 2 rent 1 said...
inbreda,
"Agreed. We should start a petition and all agree that if the government wont guarantee our savings from inflation (the rate he is printing money), we will, on a specified date, remove all our money from all banks."
Or individually, whenever you feel ready, just buy some gold.
No organisation is necessary.
17. theboltonfury said...
S2R1
Put down the knife, take off your cloak, switch off the computer and back out of the room very slowly. Now go downstairs, again, very carefully. Now approach your TV set. Switch it on. Stick it on ITV. Now, sit back and enjoy Jeremy Kyle. Welcome to how the world really is. Look at the people talking to Jeremy. Which side of their brain do you think they are using?
18. crunchy said...
Money Markets could lock up completely.
Stay ahead. You will not be sorry!
19. mark wadsworth said...
"They fear that low interest savings rates will discourage younger people from putting money away for a rainy day"
The screw has turned!
The people who whine most are older people, who either own houses (which are still vastly overvalued) or "savers" who have benefitted from the credit/house price bubble as much as anybody, those who banked their profits and sold-to-rent (that includes me) shouldn't whine so much either (which is why I don't).
But "younger people" with little savings and no house are winning by the day. Whether they earn 0% or 5% on their meagre savings is, from their point of view, neither here nor there - the asset for which they are saving up (a house) is falling in value by the day, so in terms of future purchasing power, they are welll ahead.
Good luck to them, is all I can say. All I need to do is educate them on the merits of Land Value Tax to keep house prices low and stable for ever (before the whole pyramid scheme kicks off again).
Note - I believe in low taxes - LVT could and should replace all existing property and wealth related tax, council tax, business rates, inheritance tax, stamp duty, capital gains tax, TV licence fee, insurance premium tax etc etc on a fiscally neutral basis.
20. notaneconomicsguru said...
10. "In science we have a clash of ideas with right brain thinking people challenging traditional left brain scientific views. These areas include free energy systems, medical treatments, and the multi-dimensional theories."
But multi-dimensional theories have been part of mainstream physics ever since time was put on the same footing as space by Einsein in Special Relativity in 1905. Since then physicts have added additional "rolled up" dimensions such as in an attempt to unify gravitation with electodynamics in the Kaluza-Klein theory of the 1920's and after that a lot or work has been done with multi-dimensional unifying theories combining gravity with the stong, weak and electromagmentic theories running right up to the latest string theory hypothesis. These theories consider at least 10 dimensions
21. crunchy said...
Bank Holidays can be a bi,,h
22. uncle chris said...
Surprisingly, Tesco are offering 5.1% for a year, even after the latest cut to 2%. As they are covered by the FSCS scheme, I'm busy transferring across from my spanish bank.
Tesco Link
If rates drop further, then like others, I'm minded to just stash the money somewhere safe. I sometimes think the mattress would be safer than some of these banks.
23. rm96696 said...
For years the governments have punished savers and rewarded debtors (above all people who bought "properties" well beyond their means on borrowed money). Is it any surprise that we have become the nation with the highest net debt in the world?
24. sold 2 rent 1 said...
notaneconomicsguru,
It seems that scientists only accept new ideas from other scientists.
This is a fundamental problem. This is the conflict between left and right brain thinking.
Mainstream scientists didn't understand Stan Meyer's watered powered car beacuse he used a different language to what science accepted.
Didn't techieman say yesterday that the best traders are not mathematical experts but they tend to have more of an art-based background.
25. Drewster said...
crunchy @ 10:51am,
Bank holidays... there are two next week, Thursday and Friday, followed by a weekend. If the government were to spring a surprise on us (like joining the Euro or freezing our savings), wouldn't it be over that very long weekend?
26. renting2 said...
Uncle chris @ 18 - "I sometimes think the mattress would be safer than some of these banks." - You'll get GB / AD starting a 'mattress tax' with talk like that.
27. notaneconomicsguru said...
There is a degree of truth in what you say, but I think its rather a charicature if not an actual misunderstanding.
I believe, in fact I know, that the very best scientists -are the ones that are capable of breath-taking almost magical insights. They don't do that by so called left brain thinking. Its an intuitive, instinctive creative thing that doesn't come from technical mastery - although that is almost always usually present because without the technical fluency to guide and inform the creative, the ideas cannot normally be expressed in a way that can then be rigorously applied or tested. This, I think is very like high art forms whether it be music or visual arts, there is always in the most gifted a synergy between the creative and techical aspects which creates something quite unique and special. I think here more about music than visual art, because I know a lot more music than I do art. Of science, Richard Feymann - a late Nobel Prize winning American theoretical physicist said that he had met a lot of people with a very high mathematical technical ability who believed that when they understood the mathematical equations of say Maxwell's laws they understood electrodynamics completely. He went on to say that such people usually made very little contribution to either physics or mathematics. The essential point being that there has to be the other "intuitive" element of understanding - (you sort have to know what the maths means in a non-mathematical way you have to see in your head or your gut what it means and its really difficult to express that but I know exactly what he meant) in order to be able to be successful in exploiting what the left brain can rigourously and logically construct.
For all those reasons, the best traders I would not expect to necessarily come from a strongly mathematical background. To be the best - I would say there has to be the depth and quality of insight which is an instinctive, intuitive thing - they 'know' how the markets work and almost certainly have a strong enough mathematical fluidity to guide them. They also will generally have a huge amount of knowledge. Someone with a very high mathematical proficiency are not precluded from having that insight of course.
28. mrmickey said...
I suppose the answer is to set yourself up as a loan shark and start lending your savings out to desperate people at 50% interest.
29. p. doff said...
I'm really peed-off. Most of my savings are tied up until April 09 on reasonable rates. Fine at the moment, but by April there won't be anywhere worthwhile to put it.
I'm one of those 'oldies' who anticipated the collapse and saved furiously for the hard times, and now that they're here, I'm being (not so) sneakily shafted by Gordon's lot, whilst spendaholics are being baled out.
Do you know, I think I'm becoming 'mad as hell and I'm not going to take it anymore'
Anybody fancy a march on Downing Street?
30. Basil said...
As I have always said doomsters "be careful what you wish for" !!!
31. Elpapasito said...
Mark W
Spot on! LVT is the ultimate solution to property bubbles. If implemented at 100% it would replace VAT and Income Tax / NI too potentially.
32. jackas said...
P.doff
As a prudent saver, you have to accept that its savings like ours that were always going to bailout the fools. I am beyond anger, because I don't want to be angry any more.
Brown's on the TV now, he was just asked about what he is doing for savers, and his initial reaction was to laugh.
Apparently, in a global crises we need low inflation and low interest rates. Apparently. Global. low. Global. crises. Global.
33. inbreda said...
@24
yes
34. titaniccaptain said...
My goodness what is happening here on hpc.............all im hearing is revolutionary type talk on all different blogs..................hmmmmmm..........
Yes in the new year with christmas out of the way and all that.......providing the trains are running on time and we dont get some rather rude seasonal frost which may create a bit of chill in the old bones yes I will be up for a bit of rioting.........then again there are an awfull lot of people in Lonodon and it could all get rather claustrophobic and with those dreadfull tubes full of all sorts it may be too much for me........I may have to recline to the bedroom and watch the whole procedings from a distance but I will be with you all in spirit......throw a brick for me
35. crunchy said...
20. sold 2 rent
It worked. That is all they needed to know. The possibility of lost oil revenues may have put a stop to the engine.
Did not stop American government buying some patents from Mayers who later died of food poisoning.
Just facts, nothing more.
36. eyeoftheweasel said...
Anyone know if GB has any personal vested interest in all this, like a significant BTL portfolio? If so, he could be standing on very dodgy ground.
37. flintster1994 said...
Off topic.
I can't remember who recommended coininvestdirect.com, but thanks. Slick service.
38. titaniccaptain said...
@jackas
"Apparently, in a global crises we need low inflation and low interest rates. Apparently. Global. low. Global. crises. Global.".....dont please dont........................that rant makes we want to pull his lungs out with a fishing rod and make haggis out of it and then feed it to Darling via a sling with his mouth held wide open with clamps.........ah thats better im calm now
39. flintster1994 said...
Jesus titaniccaptain,
Have you just been reading 1984?
40. debtfree said...
@ 9. inbreda
Yep, a petition or action.
Spread the word and encourage people to withdraw all their money and cancel direct debits, pay the £1 a month extra at the post office for bills. In exchange for the people's money to be held by banks, we should demand that banks are to become public service companies that are there for the people. It should never be allowed again that a minority has power to put ALL of us in jeopardy.
41. sold 2 rent 1 said...
"Spread the word and encourage people to withdraw all their money and cancel direct debits"
"Anybody fancy a march on Downing Street?"
And buy gold/silver...
This is the fastest way to bringing down the banking system and ending the BoE
This is what P4AC got banned for and many of you cheered.
Consciousness marches on regardless.
Destiny has a timetable and this train aint gonna be late regardless of who wants to get on or off.
42. crunchy said...
25. Drewster
I am watching with interest, but dont think it will happen just yet.
The money is still flowing.
The retail sector next year may spark some real concerns. Who knows?
I feel it in my waters that it has got to breakdown at some point and in the not to distant future.
Machines and ATM's have a knack of breaking down just when you need your money most.
43. doom&gloom said...
flinster - second that re: coininvestdirect. used them for the first time last month and it was seamless.
s2r1 - what EXACTLY did s2r1 get banned for? PS. I'm keeping an eye on the new usernames to work out when he pops back up. I have a suspicion already...
44. doom&gloom said...
...sorry, what did p4ac get banned for?
45. crunchy said...
44. doom&gloom
Ok don't do a thing, just sit back and relax all will be just fine. Nothing to worry about.
Can I be in your club now? Oh please.
46. amjidk said...
yep, buy some gold, Bullionvault.com is pretty good!!
47. sold 2 rent 1 said...
doom&gloom,
"sorry, what did p4ac get banned for?"
Posting an article about ending the Bank of England
48. sold 2 rent 1 said...
Interesting that you mention Bank Holidays is a time to stop bank withdrawals
My big peak in gold/gold stocks is set for 10 April 2010 (+- 7 days either side)
Easter that year falls:
Good Friday 2 April 2010
Easter Monday 5 April 2010
49. crunchy said...
13. Yogibear123
Don't want to ramp on, but oil is cheap right now.
Holding till $78. one of the best low riskers around right now.
Do you think we are heading for oil stability next year?.....rhetorical.
50. doom&gloom said...
Off topic, but found out what P4aC's been up to since he got banned from HPC.
http://ipower.ning.com/forum/topics/having-multiple-partners?page=1&commentId=2057690%3AComment%3A344879&x=1#2057690Comment344879
Multiple wives anyone? In his dreams....
51. Letsgetreadytotumble said...
Does moving my savings from a bank to a genuine BS help mess up the system?
I'm thinking of moving from the 2.24% online saver at HSBC to the Yorkshire BS at 4.41%.