Monday, Dec 29, 2008
Expatriates were lambs to the slaughter
Reuters: Sterling extends losses vs euro, falls beyond 97 pence
LONDON, Dec 29 (Reuters) - Sterling extended losses against the euro on Monday, falling beyond 97 pence to a record low and edging closer to parity with the single European currency.
The euro rose as high as 97.10 pence by 0908 GMT, according to Reuters data, hitting its strongest level since the euro zone currency was introduced in 1999.
Posted by plato @ 11:57 AM (1243 views) Add Comment
25 Comments
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1. sovietuk said...
Time to rebuild British Manufacturing then. Oh dear not quite so easy now - all the skills have been lost and University Engineering courses have been replaced with socioloy/nonsense degrees. Poverty it is then.
2. shipbuilder said...
We have a weak currency because we have a weak economy and we are a nation with ambitions and ego well beyond our capabilities. Time to ditch the pseudo-patriotic swill and grandstanding. It's time for the UK to take a long and hard look at itself.
3. shipbuilder said...
1. sovietuk said...
"Time to rebuild British Manufacturing then. Oh dear not quite so easy now - all the skills have been lost and University Engineering courses have been replaced with socioloy/nonsense degrees. Poverty it is then."
Britain did well because we are a nation of inventors and innovators, not money-worshippers. We were doomed once our ambitions and learning became focused on making more money or getting a 'career' rather than doing something worthwhile and useful. 'Nonsense degrees' along with 'open borders,' 'dole scroungers' and 'cushy public sector jobs' are all simplistic sacrificial lambs distracting from the real issues.
4. bellwether said...
the usual HPC self flagellation that can only co exisit with a complete lack of perspective as to what is happening outwith our borders. I guess names like shipbuilder and sovietuk kind of give the game away tho.
5. Maltesers said...
Lots of people i know over here ( malta) are coming to uk for January sales etc . All of them really happy about exchange rate .A member of my family just been she done lots of shopping there and is planning to go again in march . I wonder if uk will start to see more europeans tourists ?
6. enuii said...
Bellweather; care to expand on your cryptic egocentric postulation in more realistic terminology or are you indulging in humanities based smoke and mirrors.
7. shipbuilder said...
Bellwether, perhaps you could explain how criticism of the UK indicates a lack of perspective on the global situation? Is it really either/or? Must I put all criticism of the UK in a global context to avoid displaying a 'lack of perspective' to those who judge from single posts? And what does my choice of name tell you? Your comment tells me that you are too eager to draw conclusions based on your own preconceptions.
8. This comment has been removed as it was found to be in breach of our Blog Policies.
9. shipbuilder said...
OK, in simple terms - what is happening outwith our borders that you percieve the lack of perspective of and how exactly does 'shipbuilder' give the game away?
10. bellwether said...
Shipbuilder, I have a growing frustration that the site is devoted too narrowly to what is going wrong in the UK, and supposed solutions to that - in isolation. Endless posts about Gordon Brown being an idiot, overly lose fiscal policy in the early part of the decade, failure to create a surplus in the good times are all stating the obvious, do we need to make the point endlessly.
On the other hand most on the site seem fixated and pleased with being right ie that house prices were too high, that borrowing was too high, that prudence is best but do not see (a) that what we are wrapped into this ie it is a global phenomenon from which no-one will escape (ie growth hasn't just been artifical here it has been artificial everywhere or (b) that things are dire - relishing HPC or ridiculing what is going on will be thin gruel when many on this site are unemployed.
11. shipbuilder said...
Bellwether, I agree with you on both points and have done consistently in the past - I have argued on a number of Brown-bashing threads that the same policies were happening in most countries irrespective of the left/right political stance of their government. Hence my point about judging me on a single post - which was UK-centric because it is a article about sterling. I hardly expect you to follow my posts, but I generally come from the point of view that our entire global economic system is flawed - what happens in the UK and the potential solutions to it are generally a microcosm of what is happening globally as globalization and global corporations have effectively given us all the same issues.
I came to this site with my view on HPC and have had it very much expanded, others wish to see the topic keep to HPC - fair enough. I think both have valuable insights as while we are facing global problems, the solutions (and those which people see as personally doable) could well be more local.
12. bellwether said...
The name Shipbuilder reminds me of an industrialised UK, carrying the notion that manufacturing is somehow noble. The truth is that the past 30 years have seen average wealth increase in the UK precisely due to outsourcing manufacturing where labour costs are cheaper. Returning manufacturing to the UK is hardly the solution where manufacturing costs are so cheap elsewhere and getting cheaper as the recession/depression bites - not to mention that manufacturing is something we are useless at as the post war years demonstrate
The problem is not specifically what the UK has been doing, which was in fairness succesful for a while, but a global bubble that both consumers and manufacturers are complicit in.
13. bellwether said...
just read post 11 SB and fair enough I think we are more in agreement than not
14. bellwether said...
Incidentally I've been recommeding buying Euro's for some time now with the caveat that it is an incredibly overbought currency and will turn quickly with cracks being ignored . Not sure what happens once parity with sterling is reached - this week or next with the looks of it.
15. shipbuilder said...
Shipbuilder actually comes from a band name came up with (band is non-existent, unfortunately) and is related to where I come from. I don't have any rose-tinted view of industry (although I am from an engineering background) - my general views on 'work' couldn't accomodate it. However I have argued that value added activity, rather than speculation, should be our priority as a means of generating wealth.
One thing would say about manufacturing, though, is that modern lean manufacturing techniques have greatly reduced the proportion of labour as a cost and in fact say that manufacturing should happen as close as possible to the market, so ruling it out would also be a mistake.
16. jack c said...
Shippy, I personally think you make valid points on this thread particularly with regard manufacturing - anyway not to worry I'm sure we can all get jobs as dog groomers as stated in the attached video
uk.youtube.com/watch?v=bNmcf4Y3lGM
17. mytimeisnigh said...
The UK has one of the most inflated property bubbles and one of the largest budget deficits in the developed world, this makes the UK more vulnerable in a global downturn. I'm sure I won't be the last person to raise these valid concerns, especially as they are pertinent to a house price crash.
18. plato said...
On a bright note; I expect some investors are feeling that it could be wise to get back into sterling in anticipation of an overvalued euro.
Must say, I've always found shipbuilder to have anything but a narrow perspective. On the contrary,historically one of the most open-minded and rational contributors on this site.
19. bellwether said...
miscalled SB to an extent, although recognised that posts ago on this thread. Comment about posts being narrow was a general one relating to the site. There is a growing lack of diversity in views. At least P4AC, however mad, added that.
20. plato said...
bellwether
No probs......... This site is quite open minded and tolerant, so however much we appreciate the wider picture we are bound to respect the initial purpose it was designed for and for the opportunity to express ourselves. I'm sure that if a little discretion in posting had been used, you would not be having this concern now.
21. shipbuilder said...
Plato - thank you for your kind words.
Bellwether - fair play, i've been quick to judge in the past and come into conflict with a number of posters on occasion, not least p4ac. Whatever the disagreements, I would have to say that it's always been a learning experience, so I welcome the diversity, although there's always a surprising amount of common ground.
22. beartil2010 said...
Can I add:
i. The problems in policy stretch past the UK and are global - this is true, but also incomplete. The problem is that the countries causing the problems are large, and enough to cause global issues for all countries, prudent or not. There are countries that have not followed these types of policies, and do have a culture of saving. They are also suffering, but not as much as the UK is suffering (and will suffer).
ii. I believe that generally people on here do try and look at the bigger picture and come up with ideas, Shipbuilder is one of the most considerate in tone of the posters, and I have heard lots of solid ideas from him and others.
iii. The suggestions usually end up being: i. we're going to have anarchy/let's fight and start a revolution, neither of which I find appealing as it'll be reactionary to the crash rather than proactively trying to do something to fix the problems, and ii. the school of 'try to learn as much as you can, and educate as many others as you can to the issues'; it seems to me if we all do our bit then that is the only way things can change. I am of course on standby with a pitchfork should it be needed.
If anyone has any other constructive ideas about ways to make a change I am listening and will try to carry them out. Meantime, I have advised about 10 people not to buy a house ie. take on a massive debt during the last year and a half, and have made more aware of how these issues are developed and that they should ensure they have some savings. I wish I could do more!
23. beartil2010 said...
ps. the posts might seem like they are getting a bit stale - it's because the news is now all uniformly negative, so everyone is in agreement. Perhaps as bellwether says we need a new avenue to widen the debates a bit.
24. drewster said...
bellwether,
I'd welcome some articles that display a divergence of opinions, please post some!
At present some 80-90% of the articles posted here are from UK sources (BBC, national newspapers, etc) which inevitably leads to a domestic focus. Speaking personally, I have a full-time job (unconnected with finance or media) and I find it difficult to keep up with what's happening in the UK, let alone around the world. Any stories you can post to correct the balance would be most welcome.
25. stillthinking said...
So Brown bashing is still OK, or it isn't?
There is bound to be a domestic focus here, of course, we all live in the UK. Also by virtue of being most horrifically shafted country, the UK is also the most interesting. I wouldn't go so far as to say that other countries are all in the same boat, different sides of the same coin maybe. For me, my opinion is that the UK would have gone into a recession anyway, irrespective of the global situation. Our real situation is currently being masked and if the other major countries recover first, I am not so sure that is in our best interest because it will just reveal the true extent of the doo doo.
Personally I would be quite interested in any UK rescue plans you might have. I can also say that I am no longer interested in the fact that house prices are falling. Perhaps a bit interested in how long till the botttom, and keen to spread the word that next year is when things kick off, but really I am personally interested in just the basic economics of things.
If a new subject for debate is needed, how about this. I believe the root cause of the global recession was the Louvre accord in January 1987.