Friday, Oct 17, 2008
Poachers turned gamekeepers are very attractive to hire
Guardian: We'll get tough with City, says watchdog
Lord Adair Turner admitted that the Financial Services Authority had tried to regulate Britain's big banks "on the cheap" in the past, but said a more stringent regime was on the way.
Turner said the FSA was recruiting staff in order to stiffen up regulation of banks and other institutions considered too big to fail. "We will pay more than necessary to attract the correct quality of people from outside.
Poachers turned gamekeepers are very attractive to hire. The FSA, in relation to systemically important firms, was [until now] trying to do regulation on the cheap."
Posted by malct @ 07:26 AM (757 views) Add Comment
33 Comments
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1. planning4acrash said...
To get rid of the remaining free market traders. Selective kleptocracy. Now. An announcement. I'm coming out against S2R. I'm now convinced that Mayan Calendar is dangerous New Age Voodoo Nonsense. Talking about the last two periods, you have ethics and
2. planning4acrash said...
Well. People are ethical, but the establishment manipulate that to consolidate power. We see fake global warming to unite under global carbon tax and global behavioural control grid. Kooks coming out against free markets, money, capitalism, when the
3. planning4acrash said...
few times when free markets ruled, we had progress and freedom. We see families being told to have less kids to save the planet. Mutated ethics used against us to consolidate power and take it from the people. Then we get the final stage, co-creation.
4. planning4acrash said...
And this is exactly what the UN means when they talk of interdependence, no individual, family or nation independent after the UN have bought in World Governance. Co-creation is neo serfdom, and, the inefficiency of it, communism, means that the current
5. planning4acrash said...
Population could not be supported, because only the free market can do that, hence the eugenics. The final Mayan period coinsides with the final 2010 North American Union signing. Then there's Lungold. He talks of social darwinism, where he talks of riots
6. planning4acrash said...
But that citizens should not resist, then he talks about aliens landing. And Malct, really have had enough of the alien stuff already. Total nonsense. plus, the Mayan stuff glorifies Mayan pyramids that were used for child sacrifice, enough already!
7. rm96696 said...
Frankly the only regulation that would have stopped the current crises from occurring would have been to limit loan to value on mortgages to a maximum of 75 or 80 percent (as well as other forms of leverage). But nobody seems to have this in mind.
8. planning4acrash said...
Then you get the inevitability of evil. One of things that disturbed me is how Lungold justifies Hitler as being an inevitable part of the evolution of consciousness, darwin again. That the coming financial crisis is part of "god's" plan even if its
9. planning4acrash said...
an orchestrated crash to consolidate wealth and power. Zietgeist addendum is also total Voodoo Nonsense, denouncing Christianity, introducing false economics, social ideas and New Age Luciferianism voodoo rubbish. All to distract those who r waking up.
10. malct said...
p4ac - something tells me you are on a train with a mobile!
know I’ve mentioned it before – but did you get around to reading “The Lucifer Effect” by Phillip Zimbardo. It’s about the Stanford Prison experiment and also covers Abu Ghraib and other situations. It shows clearly how “normal” people behave in ways which people might interpret as “psychopathic” given the right (or wrong!!!) situation. In other words it isn’t the people but the system in which they are expected to operate which primarily governs their behaviour. This is alien to our intuition because we are so accustomed to believing that people have traits which basically represent “good” or “bad”. However this assumption might not actually be true. People are people and do the things which people do. Depending on their environment their actions may or may not be perceived as psychopathic. There is plenty of evidence that the guards at Auschwitz were as “normal” as you and I. (if you don’t mind me calling you normal!)
NOW, what was the article about again?
oh yes poachers into gamekeepers
BBC's aussy finance bloke came out with this earlier.
FSA are going to raise the bait to attract bigger fish from the financial sector so that they can get the weasels to show them how it's done !
RIGHT
11. malct said...
rm96696
what's really needed is for people to look back at what honest people have said for generations, learn from it and be honest themselves.
FAT CHANCE.
for a few clues see :- http://www.housepricecrash.co.uk/newsblog/2008/10/blog-years-of-financial-disasters-18270.php
12. techieman said...
rm96696
"Frankly the only regulation that would have stopped the current crises from occurring would have been to limit loan to value on mortgages to a maximum of 75 or 80 percent (as well as other forms of leverage). But nobody seems to have this in mind."
Well yes and no. The regulation of the banks themselves by themselves - i.e. to maximise profits and increase shareholder value should have meant they did this on the way up once affordability measures indicated we were near an extreme (ive been on here for a while and thats been my consistent recomendation). Of course because they just straight line progressed the prior trend of asset valuation that was ignored.
To be fair there was probably some shareholder pressure to do exactly that, and in a competitive environment the greedy monster rears its head and that other prudent Scot (aka "Sir" Fred) gears up on gearing when they brought ABN - Barclays must be thanking their lucky stars!
OR just maybe they knew that the Govn would have to bail em out anyway - which im afraid is a consequence of a fractional banking system, concentration of risk and probable contagion. If that were the case, then why should they (as a group) bother to maintain sensible lending criteria?
13. planning4acrash said...
I would accept that a significant number of people are immoral, but to justify nazi guards on conditioning alone is to reject the very motion that humans make conscious decisions. There are no excuses for evil. This apologism &Moral relatism is a cop out.
14. techieman said...
So turning to the FSA - i actually agree with this. You get the brightest people who have been on the other side of the fence, because they understand the instruments and (whatever you may think) more likely did understand the downside. I'm afraid yes that means motivation. How much? Well not as much as before. and when ? Well probably not now by virtue of the very fact that the horse has well and truly bolted.
I am afraid all this we will get tough stuff is misplaced. Using the example above, unlike most people on here i think that yes you lower LTVs on the way up but increase them again on the way down, same with deposits. NOT the other way round. Any lender needs security if they restrict lending they increase the likelyhood of a lack of security (i.e. asset prices fall) as we have seen. They SHOULD then start to reflate - assuming and yes this is the crux, that they HAD actually restricted on the way up and affordability wasnt stretched to extremes. So now actually is not the time to get tough - that time has passed.
So the only question for me from that analysis is the mercenary - how can i take advantage of it (i.e. the fact that they will now - supposedly - get tough)? Oh and
"There's no chance of a 1929-33 depression. We know the lessons, and we know how to stop it happening again." - hmmmmmm jury is most definetly out on that one - while most commentators were discussing a plateau a soft landing or a slowing of growth lots of us "doomsayers" were predicting a recession and some worse. Now we are (or will be officially next qtr) in a recession, they aint mentioning that but they are starting to mention the depression.
15. baroo said...
What if banks were required to have a minimum capital ratio of, say, about 30%? (A number plucked from thin air to be sure, but a damn sight larger than the current average) Am I right in thinking that there is no requirement on Teir 1 Capital ratios right now? It would be a lot harder for a situation like this one to arise as they'd all have a lot more cash in the pot. Although wouldn't you need *a lot* of deflation to reach that stage from here meaning it'll never happen? Would this be a compromise between a 100% gold standard and what we have now?
16. matt_the_hat said...
More regulation and government intervention is not the answer.
What is the answer is reducing the deposit guarantee letting failing banks fail, depositors would then flee to the best banks and diversify their savings amongst good institutions not the ones paying the highest interest rates. Only when the government completely removes itself from the 'free' market will the strong forces that act within free markets allocate the resources correctly and punish those who don't make good investments.
I'm happy either for the government to take complete control of housing stock or tax any real profits made from house transactions at 95% or a completely free market where people who take out mortgages they can't afford lose their homes and have such an adverse credit rating that no one will touch them for less then BOE+10%.
17. techieman said...
matt - yes that was always (at least part of ) the answer, no deposit insurance during the way up, with investor full access to financials (with regulation only being on ensuring full and accurate disclosure). You are right - thats another reason why we got where we are but now we are here...... the banking system (as you know) means that one mans deposit is another mans loan. Therefore the possibility of contagion is very real - particularly in the retail banks. Would anyone vote in a government who oversaw the demise of say RBS or HBOS? I think the choices they had were on the way up. there are no choices now.
18. theboltonfury said...
what exactly might they do? limit the biscuits at meetings?
i bet the banks are papping themselves
19. sold 2 rent 1 said...
Blimey P4AC,
Let me answer your rant about the Mayan Calendar.
For a start, most people into the Mayan Calendar think 21 Dec 2012 is the end date. They also have wild ideas about planet X, magnetic polar shifts, asteroid strikes, general Armageddon stuff, as well as the more credible stuff about consciousness and enlightenment.
Calleman (end date 28 Oct 2011) stands alone and is ridiculed in the 2012 community.
The ETHICS world should be fully emergent by autumn 2010. I am forecasting that western currencies will be so battered that almost all government departments and public spending will collapse. So we will have to police and educate ourselves using local community currencies.
The reason that the UN goals sound a bit like co-creation is because the NWO have known for 1000s of years that creation ends in a “global enlightenment” around this time. This is why they are called the Illuminati (or the enlightened ones). They are almost trying to play god and hijacking "the end of creation" for themselves.
As for Lungold and his predictions; if you really think about how an exponential evolution of consciousness system works you would realise that almost all predictions are wrong. If the exponential function is heading into a singularity then the masses may not realise what global enlightenment is until maybe weeks or even days before the end date on 28 Oct 2011.
Alex Jones has probably been brainwashed by the CIA to draw us away from the “real truths” and I fear you have been listening to too many of his radio shows.
The family unit has been a necessary part of evolution, but who knows what shape it may take in a truly enlightened world. If there is no death in the enlightened world, the family unit doesn’t really have a purpose any more.
But who really knows?
20. phdinbubbles said...
I agree that you'd both make excellent guards at aushwitz - have you thought about applying? :-)
Given that around 5% of any population has a near-psychopathic personality disorder (at least one for every internet forum!) and a substantial proportion of the population exhbits a tendancy to be taken in by the little manipulators - back to sheep theory again, it's hardly surprising that when a regime like the nazi party takes hold of a state that there's a willing percentage of the population happy to join in. Especially unsurprising given that Hitler was actually elected - how did anyone get taken in by a short-arrsed, dark-haired, dysfunctional austrian with a funny moustache, telling them that they were a german, aryan master-race? I couldn't see myself in normal circumstances being happily engaged as a camp guard - as the pictures uncovered recently show them being relaxed and happy in their time off. Maybe if I'd been brutalised by the gruesome fighting on the eastern front then I may have become impervious to the abuse of others or joined in with the abuse - e.g. the rape of berlin women by soldiers of the red army. But the guards at aushwitz hadn't been brutalised in that manner and their behaviour doesn't correlate with the empathic behaviour of the majority of us, but it is disturbingly common amongst any human population and under the wrong circumstances, those people come to the fore.
21. unplugged said...
P4AC - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Milgram_experiment - I wonder what the results would yeild if the experiment were carried out on military personel?
22. unplugged said...
From the wiki entry -
Joseph Dimow, a participant in the 1961 experiment at Yale University, wrote about his early withdrawal as a "teacher", suspicious "that the whole experiment was designed to see if ordinary Americans would obey immoral orders, as many Germans had done during the Nazi period".[11] Indeed, that was one of the explicitly-stated goals of the experiments. Quoting from the preface of Milgram's book, Obedience to Authority: "The question arises as to whether there is any connection between what we have studied in the laboratory and the forms of obedience we so deplored in the Nazi epoch".
23. theboltonfury said...
But who really knows?
S2R1 - your words sum this up perfectly.
BTW - I think the asteroid theories carry a higher degree of certainty than those of conciousness. The planet has been battered for billions of years by these and will again.
24. matt_the_hat said...
17. techieman
but its all part of this pseudo free market approach that extinguishes any motivation to better yourself in the UK:
1, There's no point getting a degree anymore - government might as well hand one out with a birth certificate.
2, There's no point trying to do well in your career - minimum wage or baby machines will always reduces any gap divergence due to hard work.
3, There's no point being a prudent saver/investor - government will always print money to bailout the debt ridden masses.
4, There's no point working in a productive industry - modern society only values solicitors/accountants/fund-managers/bankers/judges/politicians
I'm boring myself now hope you get the point
I just want one or the other
free market system or from each according to his ability to each according to their need.
This sh!t we have in the middle only encourages waste and and ever increasing rotten core in society - we have all now been reduced to transactions - no one gets to know/trust people before they do business with them.
25. fancypants said...
the FSA should recruit some people from this site (not the nutters, obv)
26. techieman said...
Matt - I get the point and agree that we shouldn be where we are.....but we are. Some things can be changed and some need a new structure - S2R1 may be right - we might need a destruction to bring about a more revolutionary society where you actually get out more, the more you put in.
Probably thats rich coming from yours truly! - I can see the irony, and am blushing .... a bit. Having said that - the hard work to get to where i am is the study and, to be frank, the balls to put yourself on the line, esp. when everyone tells you you are wrong....Sounds like HPC website to me!!
27. nooneo said...
Wow, the stable door has been open since the establishment of the FSA. The blubbermint have been actively pushing the horse out of the stable for first 5 years of it's incumbancy, then they have actually shoo-ed the horse out of the field, down the lane, over 2 more fields and then onto the open moorland that stretches for miles.
I also have to agree with Sold2rent1, there will be destruction, although I'm not sure it will happen with this crash. It may well do, but the global nature of this might mean that the economical sticking plaster might just hold and avert massive change. Personally my money is on the same thing happening in a few years or so when the efforts to make this disaster go away, fail over the long term
28. malct said...
25. fancypants said...
the FSA should recruit some people from this site (not the nutters, obv)
Friday, October 17, 2008 10:34AM
"When I cerify someone insane, I am not equivocating when I write that he is of unsound mind, may be dangerous to himself and others, and requires care and attention in a mental hospital.
However, at the same time, I am also aware that, in my opinion, there are other people who are regarded as sane, whose minds are as radically unsound, who may be equally or more dangerous to themselves and others and whom society does not regard as psychotic and fit persons to be in a madhouse.
I am aware that the man who is said to be deluded may be in his delusion telling me the truth, and this in no equivocal or metaphorical sense, but quite literally, and that the cracked mind of the schizophrenic may let in light which does not enter the intact minds of many sane people whose minds are closed." (1990b, p.27)
Ronald David Laing - http://laingsociety.org/biograph.htm
29. phdinbubbles said...
Have to agree with everything from Ronald David Laing there, but I don't think the FSA should be actively recruiting nutters nonetheless; They've probably got enough working for them already (equating to that 5% I mentioned earlier - the non-psychotic ones who can hold down positions in society and even be respected despite their disordered perception of of the world around them and their place in it). Schizophrenics are easier to blame and that's what it comes down to at the end of the day - blame it on the vulnerable, they seldom argue back.
30. James said...
s2r1 - "If there is no death in the enlightened world"
What?
31. planning4acrash said...
"the family unit doesn’t really have a purpose any more" - Government funding feminism and social workers to destroy the family is what's harming it, undermining parents. S2R, we fundamentally disagree. The family is the core of humanity, it is more core than any government. The family is civilization. How on earth could CIA want to condition Alex Jones to support the family, when individual and family liberty undermines all other types of power in society? You are starting to sound like a trans-humanist clown.
Any evolution in consciousness would be people becoming aware of their own liberties and transcending the things that try to supplant the family and individual. Now, if individuals choose variants on the nuclear family, that's fine by me, that's liberty. But the family unit is a liberty to be protected at all costs. I will debate you further S2R. This is my statement of position and declaration of debate.
32. mark wadsworth said...
@ P4AC "Government funding feminism and social workers to destroy the family"?
Wot? .. oh yes ... I see...
33. planning4acrash said...
Total scandal Mark. Well exposed. I burn with a desire to somehow get involved in ridding society with this corruption and sick social engineering. Any tips?