Sunday, Aug 10, 2008
Fairness from BTL landlords
Prime Minister e-Petition: ...private housing landlords must accept housing benefit
Please support this petition. If BTL landlords are to keep people out of the housing market, we should at least have fair tenancy rights.
Posted by captain sensible @ 08:53 PM (1325 views) Add Comment
21 Comments
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1. Stevie Dee said...
I put an e-petition for "Landlord Licensing", guess what, declined.
2. Orcusmaximus said...
When I've rented out a room in the past, the only times I've had tenants fail to pay rent and leave owing me money was when they were on housing benefit. They claim that it will arrive in 'a few weeks', but it never does and leaves you out of pocket. On this basis, if I ever end up renting out a room (or house) again, I will never accept people on housing benefit, and will not sign this petition.
3. little professor said...
If I were a landlord, I would never let to dole scum.
4. drewster said...
Housing Benefit may not cover your full rent. There are various tools to calculate your allowance at Local Housing Allowance / The Rent Service
In particular a single person aged under 25 isn't entitled to a whole property - they only get a room in a shared house or flat. Once they reach 25, they are entitled to a studio apartment.
For example in an average town like Peterborough, the Local Housing Allowance is £66/wk for a room in a houseshare or £98/wk for a studio or 1-bed flat. That's sufficient for most people, though it won't cover the rent in the posher parts of town. The allowances vary dramatically across the country: up to £126/wk in Wandsworth (SW London) against just £44/wk in Sunderland.
5. drewster said...
Little Prof,
I understand your point of view but some people become "dole scum" through simply losing their jobs and not having savings. Given the looming stormclouds on the UK's economic horizon, we can expect more people to lose their jobs and end up on the dole. Landlords may find they have no choice but to let to HB recipients.
6. Newdman said...
Can landlords refuse payments of housing benefit?
They often refuse to let to people they know are claiming housing benefit but that's a different matter
7. jonb said...
Where I live, I'm entitled to £150 per week. I currently pay £600 per month.
8. nooneo said...
little professor @ 1
"If I were a landlord, I would never let to dole scum." - I think that's a wee bit strong old bean!
Apart from the fact that anyone on low income (possibly working) or genuine incapacitated people, and let's face it genuine (and growing) repossesed and laid off unemployed people. Describing them as all as "dole scum" is like saying all English people are rascist football hooligans.
"dole scum" - A generalisation too far. Not wishing to be a bit PC but well...
Another point is that you may be receiving rent from someone and then they become unemployed and on housing benefit. What then Little Professor? Do you throw them onto the street even if you are getting all your rent?
9. jackas said...
I agree with little prof. One flat filled with a teenage pregnant dole scrounger and her scumbag rottweiler-owning friends can ruin an otherwise pleasant street.
The fact that not all benefits claimants fit my harsh generalization is not the point. We are all constantly judged by the lowest common denominator in everything that we do, and it applies here as well unfortunately.
10. nooneo said...
jackas @ 9
We do live in a scary ol' world don't we all?
I think we need to be a bit more tolerant here chaps. We are talking about housing benefit claimants. That's not the same as looking at the entire 'underclass' and making judgement. If you only judge the world by extremes and 'the lowest common denomenator' then you fall into the trap of maintaining the status quo.
All people with money and status = good people
all people with no money or status = bad people
The benefits system will have to change. Perhaps this crash will make the ability to be a 'teenage pregnant dole scrounger with scumbag rottweiler-owning friends' a little bit harder to support?
All I'm saying is there are thousands, if not hundreds of thousands, of perfectly normal and reasonable people who could possibly be on housing benefit.
11. Peeps said...
I was unemployed and claiming housing benefit during the last recession in the early 90's. I am financially secure now, having bought my house nine years ago with a 75% mortgage which I paid off within four years, but I've no doubt that there will be plenty of decent hardworking people on the dole within the next few years duing this recession.
I think that stating 'No DSS' on any accommodation advert should be illegal. It reminds me of 'No Blacks, No Dogs, No Irish', that many landlords used 50-odd years ago.
12. little professor said...
I was just being provocative :p
13. techieman said...
Nooneo - you need to look at these posts rather than ignore them and say that a minority of people are dissing the landlords properties. A LL i rented off told me that when i left the next lot have left her place dwarbed in excrement and she has had to replace all the carpets (and this is a good area and its a nice place) before me she had people leaving unpaid bills etc.
Although i have little sympathy for some bad LL you get bad LL and bad Tenants because some people are bad and some are good. Re more recent unemployed people you could be right but long term, in a economy where the unemployment - and Incap rate wasnt that bad, then id question their morals and work ethic. I could give you lots of examples of people taking light switches etc., but those arent what you want to hear.
The real point is this - you really cant comment until you have rented out your own place - the people above have, listen to them. Its all a bit power to the people liberalism until then.
14. it_is_going_with_a_bang said...
Hmmm. I would imgagine some landlords would wish to take rental protection insurance in which case I'm not sure Housing Benefit is allowed, they would also need to pass a credit check and most mortgages i have seen specifically exclude renting to councils etc, which effectively you would be doing.
I don't think anyone should be forced to do anything, but it may get to the point where landlords just don't have much choice.
15. debtfree said...
If you have been working in the past and paying taxes, then why shouldn't your landlord accept benefits if you had been previously paying the rent ?
Its bad enough if the main bread winner lost their job, but to deny his/her family a home just because its partly paid by benefits is simply outrageous and typical of most landlords persona.
16. Stevie Dee said...
@12. Granted, there are bad Landlords and bad Tenants. But the current housing solution is not a solution, infact it is the opposite, totally wasteful and inefficient. No service to society or the community, the Landlord = Greed / Tenant = Home. In society we have alienated certain sectors of society, how are we going to make a positive change? It is easy to class people as scum, and the landlord greedy. But surely we should examine the system, and find a solution that is truly for the welfare of the local community. What we have seen in the last 3 decades is a degradation, an erosion of the housing system & society, started under Thatcher, where the community is being dis-assembled. When part of the community feels alienated and is effectively nurtured in a regressive manner, this mentality eventually seeps through to the rest of society, thus bringing about a general decline in the community spirit & community standards. We need not blame or look for scapegoats, even though I'm not fond of landlords as I believe their practice is unethical. Therefore I am saying "we need to radically change the housing system" for the betterment of society.
17. Sfletch said...
Letting to benefit recipients is often a more profitable exercise than the professional couple all the amateur landlords target. However, you would generally have a different type and location of property to serve this market, maybe even multiple-occupation properties.
The reason it is (or can be) more profitable is because of the higher expectation of hassle and missed/late rent payment.
To turn round and DEMAND that all landlords HAVE to accept benefit recipients is small minded and sadly reeks of vindictiveness, you obviously blame BTL landlords for the current housing situation.
If an existing tenant loses their job and is then in reciept of benefits, that's quite a different matter. Presumably you've already done reference checks etc. and they have been good tenants (otherwise you'd have evicted them).
18. techieman said...
Stevie- yes i would agree this has been a fudge at replacing social housing with "more efficient" private sector housing. I was highlighting the micro issues whereas your POV relates to the macro. Sfletch. Yes your point is relevant and accepted. I understand that this type of situation was in place when the local authorities contracted with the private sector to provide B&B. Lucrative for the private sector not least because they could supply a report of the furnishings before the "let" and be indemnified for any damage thereafter. I think this has stopped now though.
19. nooneo said...
techieman @ 13
"The real point is this - you really cant comment until you have rented out your own place - the people above have, listen to them. Its all a bit power to the people liberalism until then"
I let my flat in essex between 1994-1999.
Worst tennant - Wealthly lad working in the city - Needed complete redocoration, every room, he left owing electricity and gas, he was a knob
Best tenant - Mature lady on benefits (i didn't know why, nor did i care) - She lived there 2 years, left the place in instantly re-lettable condition
There you go making judgemnts without knowing the facts...
20. techieman said...
Nooneo - point taken i stand corrected . But does your experience cloud your judgement? thats Rhetorical BTW.
21. nooneo said...
techieman @ 20.
When I was letting my flat I got into trouble when I used a letting agent. They picked crap tenants because they had a good, verifiable income and they were mostly arrogant gits. I stopped using letting agents after my really bad experience (see point 19) . I then started actually managing everything and went with my own gut instincts, my last 3 years of letting were much better. I met tenants face to face, and they had direct contact with me at any time they needed anything. It was obvious who were going to be hassle and it wasn't (neccessarily) based on whether they were on benifits, although I turned down more than one person who was on them.