Tuesday, Apr 29, 2008
Politicians have a vested interest in peddling this swindle. It's the latest way of bullying us and picking our pockets.
Campaign for Truth: Eco-loonies reject an inconvenient truth
Most news bulletins these days are little more than party political broadcasts by Greenpeace, who put the "mental" in environmentalists. They're like the lunatics who walk up and down Oxford Street wearing sandwich boards and screaming that The End Of The World Is Nigh.
Coleman insists that in a couple of years most of us will wake up and realise that we've been had. It's fair to assume he has some idea of what he's talking about, since - unlike most of the hysterical doom-mongers - he's been a meteorologist all his life.
Sometimes you do need a weatherman to know which way the wind blows.
Posted by malct @ 10:36 PM (838 views) Add Comment
39 Comments
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1. mark wadsworth said...
I thought everybody knew that MMGW was a scam? I mean, how long had this website been going before people realised that house prices don't go up for ever? A few years? Sooner or later people will realise that the temperature is going down again, it's all the same pile of crap.
VI's talk about 'negative growth' in house prices, enviro-loonies talk about 'global warming on a downward trend', same sh1t, different planet. Frankly.
2. Tuggybear said...
I watch this cr@p on Sky and was not converted.
I also watched 'Convenient Truth' on sky, this blew all Al Gore's drivel out of the water.
3. crash bandicoot said...
I know that this is off topic, but I have posted on here before that there has not even been any warming this century - man made or otherwise. I just have a feeling that all of the climate projections are of the type that showed house prices to reach £800k by 2020. BTW water vapour is a greater greenhouse gas than CO2 so you can forget hydrogen as a green energy source. As for sourcing all our energy requirement from the sea or the sun, well I shudder to think of the effect that would have on the global climate.
4. Snowflux said...
The bigger the head-in-the-sand denier crowd, the better, as far as I'm concerned. They will presumably carry on buying properties on flood plains, so keeping the prices of the houses on high ground reasonable for the rest of us. We will see Darwinism in action every time a storm strikes; one advantageous side effect of global warming will thus be to increase the average IQ of the country.
5. ttimgg said...
Mark, you are one of the more thoughtful posters on this site and I always enjoy your posts so I can hardly believe your comment - are you serious? If so - have you taken leave of your senses?? The north pole is heading to be ice-free for the first time in tens of thousands of years. Glaciers are shrinking world wide, to levels not seen in tens of thousands of years. Sea levels are measurably rising at 3mm per year and accelerating. Permafrost is melting and coral is dying. One weather forecaster says he has doubts - but tens of thousands of expert climatologists beg to differ.
Do you really think that the MSM have been taken over by greenpeace??? Please - get a grip on reality!!!!
6. Rimmer said...
The Americans have been consuming millions of gallons of oil a DAY for the past 50 years, it is Physically impossible it isnt having an effect the only question is how soon, as house prices cant go up for ever so we cant keep cutting down forests and jut hope it wont matter, it took billions of years to make and we can distroy it all in 2 to 3 hundred.
7. it_is_going_with_a_bang said...
I'll second that. I welcome a world of differing opinions. But the fact is this has been debated debated debated debated on and on. There is absolutely no way anything has really been missed.
For starters the very fact that Al Gore is an ex presidential runner for the Democrats means that any available ammunition that a Republican could find would be all over the press.
Last but least, I wouldn't be willing to accept the science behind his theories. They are no better than the science provided by Gore & Co.
I've read what he has to say before and I'm not convinced he has it right either. In my opinion he just 'wants' to be different and get back into 'the news', that he so loved being a part of.
8. enuii said...
Global warming has been hyped into scam proportions, the biggest threat to humanity will not come from the weather but from Politicians.
Politicians do not listen to scientists, they listen to bankers and pay lip service to voters for their own short term self interest.
In the 70's we were going to have another ice age, in the 80's we were going to be killed by acid rain, in the 90's it was ozone holes and U.V. and in the naughties its global warming. >p>I'm sure the world will run out of economically retrievable oil and coal reserves before we all fry and would personally rather eat and use a bicycle than run a car on vegetable oil.
9. wiltshire said...
Irrespective of whether the end of the world is nigh or not, all we seem to do in the West is waste, waste, waste. We thrown away millions of tons of food each year in the UK alone. We are an obese, lazy, wasteful and disease ridden society. It's about time people thought a little bit harder about the choices they make. It's all tied up in the same bundle, people act on autopilot, just doing what they're supposed to do to enable the status quo to maintain it's position. ANYTHING that fights the status quo is alright by me.
10. uncle tom said...
There are some very legitimate causes for concern, but the presumption that global warming is an ongoing trend and a fact beyond dispute - as evidenced by BBC reporting - is seriously bad journalism.
Yes, carbon dioxide levels appear to have risen globally to levels that are without precedent in recorded human history, but the effect on climate is unknown. What is known is that global temperatures rose by 0.5C during the last quarter ofthe 20th century, but have shown no sign of rising further since the turn of the millennium.
That is not the product of human corrective action - we are burning more fossil fuels than ever before - so there is a need for better science, and less impassioned rhetoric, to get a proper understanding of this issue.
11. titaniccaptain said...
As uncle Tom said
12. Bobby9983 said...
Climate and the earth, just like the markets and house prices, are governed by cycles and acts of randomness that perpetuate them. If the earth gets too hot it reaches a tipping point and swings the other way.
13. Anonymoutom said...
And there I was thinking this site was about housing! whoops...
14. Buctootim said...
Uncle Tom - the effect of carbon dioxide on the climate is NOT unknown. We know it traps heat and we know by how much. In fact without any CO2 the earth would be 20 degrees colder than it is now. We need to dramatically reduce carbon emissions - but it neednt mean a significant upheaval in our lives if we act now.
15. jack c said...
How come Britain was engulfed by an ice age and subsequently the ice retreated (long before 4x4's hit the scene) ? Britain has also had a tropical climate akin to that of the Brazilian rain forests.
How many people have been fooled into thinking the sun rises? fact is it doesnt.
16. planning4acrash said...
I start to get suspicious when the Rothschild's start acting on global warming.
http://www.ft.com/cms/s/7e6e21f4-154a-11dd-996c-0000779fd2ac.html
Of course, in this circumstance, they are using it to influence the corporate governance of Exxon rather than actually impact upon global warming. Not sure, but does a small snippet size storey like this sometimes deserve more attention than the tiny paragraphs given? The reason why global warming could be a scam in some way or'tother, is that the only solution to it is a global government and some form of dictatorial rule. The fact that politicians go on about it and do nothing makes me very suspicious.
It certainly requires a small number of continent sized federations, subsumed by a body such as the united nations, to control things like carbon.
17. Xeonzinc said...
Having just completed a course on environmental physics at univeristy I can tell you climate change is definitely real. If any doubters actually bothered to understand what was going on rather than just hearing facts and repeating them you might be able to make some kind of informed judgment. Anyway to try and explain things for some people:
1) Yes water vapour is the largest greenhouse gas, but it is already there. The levels don't change much, unless the surface temperature changes, which then causes more water vapour ( you remember evaporation - more heat means more water turns to water vapour). This extra water vapour then traps more heat in, increasing the surface temperature even further. Anyway this is a positive feedback. Therefore when anything changes the surface temperature, the water vapour will increase the warming until the system reaches equilibrium again, at a higher temperature. Therefore, by changing CO2 levels (which would change temperature by a small amount), you shift the system out of balance and it heats up even more until it reaches equilibrium.
@ Poster 2: There is a difference between water and water vapour, you only get substantially more atmospheric water vapour when the earths temperature increases, hydrogen would produce water which wouldn't go in the atmosphere.
@ Poster 5 :Ozone holes WERE a problem. Remember they actually took action to stop it because they could see what was going to happen!! Banning CFC's stopped the problem become much worse than it is today. Are you also suggesting skin cancers from UV light aren't reduced by using sun cream?? I know less about the ice age and acid rain(too far before my time), but it seems your other recent examples were real problems, just like global warming, and they took action against them. Dosnt this make you think maybe we should try to stop this global warming too?
18. shipbuilder said...
There is a consensus forming that the IPCC report doesn't go far enough precisely BECAUSE of corporate concerns and that the reality is much worse. I haven't done a great deal or research on this topic, but i've read a couple of books and a few articles and this isn't a subject that can be dismissed or argued using 'there used to be an ice age, didn't there' or 'it's pretty cold this year, so there can't be global warming' type simplification. For a start, the most dire predictions are not based on simple global warming, but various negative feedback that could occur if a tipping point is reached - unreleased methane, reflection of heat by the ice caps etc. etc. Apart from that there is evidence that the current level of 'aerosol' pollution in the atmosphere is actually helping to reflect heat and keep us cooler than we would otherwise be. Then there's the earth's 'lungs' in the form of algae and forests etc. etc.
To suggest that this amount of research and theory is somehow being manipulated, made up or otherwise by a bunch of rich bankers and their cohorts - it's probably one of the most insulting accusations you could make of the scientific community, for a start.
19. shipbuilder said...
Like the unions, environmentalists are an easy target. How clever and superior we feel when we attack them for actually caring about the planet we live in and the generations to follow us, while we do nothing. Take a trip to a few industrial cities in China and try sneering about the 'hippies' then. It's easy, but also lazy and stupid, to assume that the relatively clean environment we enjoy happened 'by chance'. A return to the industrial revolution era, anyone?
We feel very smug on this site about being on a higher level than the thick sheeple, about going against the grain, standing up for our convictions against the crowd. Exactly like Greenpeace in the 80s, in fact.
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22. Cristiano Barbaro said...
Actually I've read somewhere, but can't remember where that even other planets like Mars and Venus are experiencing warming right now. Some astrophysicist was explaining this as a rather well known fact amongst his academic circles. But because this alone would be enough to demonstrate that man made global warming is a sham, it does not get any airtime. Unfortunately I cannot reference any link, but maybe someone else could dig something up?
23. Doogle said...
Ops! I thought this website was a serious and useful place for thoughtful comments on the housing market. But given the comments on global warming above, it seems like this actually a place for paranoid government conspiracy theorists.
The evidence for global warming is overwhelming, and to ignore it is stupid and dangerous. To try and miscast global warming as some government conspiracy is disgraceful.
24. Si said...
What shipbuilder said in spades.
I suspect that predicting the house price crash has gone to peoples heads somewhat. I suggest that climate science is far more complex than economics, and in this subject most of you are more likely to be like the gullible BTLer, swallowing VI stories, rather than the clued up "economist"
It's much easier to believe that MMGW doesn't exist, isn't it?
25. Mariothegreat said...
Just a nice reading, are you all sure about GW?
http://www.21stcenturysciencetech.com/Global_Warming.html
Cheers
26. Ijjhall said...
Richard LittleJohn and Fox News together...must be true
27. planning4acrash said...
Good point ship builder. Its just, when you hear so many things once held true that become lies, you begin to question the entire orthodoxy. Blair lied about WMD, cld he have lied about global warming? In essence, i bloody hope so, because it scares me to death! But I am an ardent environmentalist. We have a window to question it, because government policies ensure that nobody has significant control over their emissions. A global market for oil, gas and coal ensures that cartels control their supply and combustion. I consume less, china consumes more. Green electricity tariffs were and are a scam, because they involve people paying for the corporation's renewables obligation, and none add to it, i.e. provide renewables above and beyond the renewables target. I found this out and got a written e-mail to confirm it from ecotricity, they could not deny that me, as a green electricity customer was not adding any additional demand for renewables because demand is set by the central government target. Why was this? Was it a cheap way to neutralise middle class concerns? Was it a cheap way to source additional funds? Is it a government and corporate way of neutralising justified concerns or something else? We are living through a web of lies for many things, so, whilst it would be stupid to dither and see our environment destroyed, it is important to not self censor debate and refert to an orthodoxy preached by individuals like Blair. The one thing that gives global warming credence however is that Bush denounces it! As I said, the only reason I am exploring these ideas is because I am scared to death by the idea of global warming, so a) wish it didn't exist b) am aware that fear is a tool of oppression. But I have no evidence to back up this counter view, so will continue doing what I can to save the environment!
28. Still-waiting said...
Man-made Global Warming doesn't exist. I realise 99.9% of the world's scientists think that it does, but as a layman I know from solid anecdotal evidence that it's all a big tax swindle.
29. Still Renting said...
This article doesn't really present any kind of case about globabl warming. It just says that a weatherman says Al Gore has got it wrong. Big deal.
He does add the particularly useful fact: "carbon in the atmosphere amounts to only 38 particles in 100,000. " Well, brake fluid makes up less than 0.05% of your car. So it doesn't matter if we take some out, does it?
30. drewster said...
p4ac, you are quite right, MMGW is just an excuse to form a world government. This is the main conspiracy theory of the moment, and I have to admit it's fairly compelling. Global warming is the excuse governments need to sign away their powers to a supranational governing body. Have a look at the movie Endgame: Blueprint for Global Enslavement.
31. Si said...
@ Crash...
"...BTW water vapour is a greater greenhouse gas than CO2 so you can forget hydrogen as a green energy source..."
So many times have I heard this! In my opinion it sounds like the "House prices always go up" mantra.
Let me pick a massive hole in this arguement. Water vapour produces clouds and falls out of the sky as rain (!). In contrast CO2 only gets a absorbed over millenia by plants and trees, which we're cutting down. (Oh yeah and rainforests, in particular, produce(d) a LOT of water vapour, hence the name, and they're diminishing)
32. Asegrahamjackson said...
Although indirectly connected with housing policy and house prices (communiting further in order to find an affordable house, etc) I'm not sure that climate change/global warming is that relevant to this site.
However: my two pennorth which I'd like the conspiracy theorists to comment on or question;
1. Carbon dioxide concentration in the atmosphere is increasing
2. Most of the increase in the last hundred years or so has been shown to be from the burning of fossil fuels (by isotope analysis of the carbon dioxide)
3. Carbon dioxide molecules have the property of absorbing and reradiating infra red radiation of the wavelengths which the earth radiates as part of its warming/cooling diurnal cycle.
4. There is therefore a mechanism by which increasing carbon dioxide in the earth's atmosphere can lead to increasing temperatures on the earth's surface.
Could you say which you disagree with and why?
33. inbreda said...
9. jack c said...
How come Britain was engulfed by an ice age and subsequently the ice retreated (long before 4x4's hit the scene) ? Britain has also had a tropical climate akin to that of the Brazilian rain forests.
Well, jack, surely there are natural fluctuations - I think the point about global warming is that it is a man made effect that is causing another one of these massive fluctuations. i.e. the polluting has an effect on when and how severe fluctuations are.
I must admit I don't like to hear people saying that there is no such thing as GW. I don't see how it is a way for governments to tax us more. "Going green" is generally about paying less - i.e. don't drive the 4 litre 4x4, drive the smaller car (save on petrol), don't jet around the world (save money), don't pay for electricity, get solar panels.
The only people who think that GW is a government created myth, are those people who think they look cool in their dumbass characterless 4x4s and who are so selfish they don't care about anyone else.
If we cut down on polluting and GW was a myth, we have lost nothing. But if we assume it's a myth and we are wrong, then the consequences are dire. That is why I think we should be measuring and recording individual pollution levels becuase it is the future generations that will pay, and it should be concentrated on those whose great, great grandparents polluted the most.
34. letthemfall said...
There are valid reasons to believe that man-made global warming is occurring, and articles by oafish journalists like Littlejohn are hardly to be taken as part of a serious debate. I am a little surprised to read views here that it's all a conspiracy. Anyway, it's off-topic.
35. mark wadsworth said...
CO2 is 0.03% of air by volume, industrial CO2 is about 0.25% of all CO2 emissions. Water vapour is 90% of greenhouse effect, NO4 is 27 times as powerful as CO2 etc etc.
36. icarus said...
Anybody know who's behind the World Conservation Bank and how the global warming scare serves its purposes?
37. mr_smith said...
oh no this is a disaster and off topic.
I agree with what shipbuilder has to say. in fact anyone who is a doubter I would advise to read James lovelocks 'revenge of Gaia' then come back and tell me there is no global warming.
if you want to look at the conspiracy side of it look at dodgy things people are doing around climate change adaption whilst trying to stop us cutting emmisions. the whole thing about water vapour and NO4 is just a distraction from the point that we are near or past a tipping point and the earth will most likely be heading towards a newer hottter equlibrium...
to blame everything in the media on conspiracies is just insulting to scientists and makes me wonder why I read this site sometimes.....
38. also sold to rent said...
This thread shows exactly why global warming has been and will be such a difficult problem to solve (if in fact it needs solving at all. Perhaps 'adapting to' is a better approach). Assuming it's cheaper to slow global warming than to adapt to it then technically it's not difficult to control carbon emissions, you just put a price on it. Politically, it's very difficult as it is so easy to dismiss the evidence with counter evidence. Unfortunately I don't think the man on the street will really believe in global warming until the Arctic is free of ice soon after 2013 (see NASA), and probably not even then. For those who are interested in geopolitics, check out a map of the Arctic ocean and think of the implications of shipping lanes.
Peak oil on the other hand is not so easy to dismiss. It will be interesting to see how massively higher food and fuel prices (yes, massively higher than today's 'high' prices) affect a housing market that is already on the slide.
39. shipbuilder said...
With regard to MMGW being a scam to forward the cause of the NWO, as I have said repeatedly, I prefer the simpler, logical, established and evidence-based conclusion that governments and companies are reacting to GW as they have always reacted to big events -
- most companies will oppose legislation to maintain their profit-making status quo. ( eg. Automotive industry vs EU emissions rules)
- the more forward-looking integrate it into their business model and look to make profit from it
- governments will try to inflict a cumbersome, ill-thought out one-size-fits-all solution that no-one likes.
Nothing new here then.
If I believed in NWO theories, surely the logical assumption would be that the NWO would deny MMGW (like their supposed figurehead GWB)?
Again as I pointed out - generally NWO theories are not based on evidence, but are formulated against anything that threatens personal wealth and supports personal predjudices - hence scepticism of MMGW, and the hilarious claims that it is a 'socialist' conspiracy.