Thursday, Mar 27, 2008

As Iceland goes, so go the Baltics, the Balkans, Hungary, Turkey, and perhaps South Africa

The Telegraph: Iceland contagion may spread far and wide

"There's now a risk of psychological contagion from Iceland. People are starting to look more closely at all these countries. The deficits were easy to fund in times of abundant liquidity, but we think the global credit crunch is going to make it a lot harder," he said. "The history of financial crises suggests that it can be dangerous to think 'it's different this time'."

Posted by sold 2 rent 1 @ 08:44 AM (1328 views) Add Comment

26 Comments

1. Hyrax said...

Scurillous.. British press has been remour mongering for weeks. What are the facts..give a dog a bad name.
Trying to scare UK savers to bring their billions back to blighty where its needed?! Hard for UK to compete when banks use the BOE rate
to short change savers when lipor is near 6%. Nice try!

Thursday, March 27, 2008 09:00AM Report Comment
 

2. This comment has been removed as it was found to be in breach of our Blog Policies.

 

3. paul said...

Yet again, this article is proclaiming that Iceland is a risk right now but gives no facts or figures to substantiate it.

The only part of the article which actually talks about Iceland's banks is the following:

"The country's all-conquering banks - led by Kaupthing, Glitnir, and Landsbanki - have pushed the asset base of the Icelandic banking system to a world record of eight times GDP"

which actually contradicts the title of the article (lots of assets in a credit crunch is a good thing!) and the picture trying to imply the country is on thin ice (Iceland, thin ice, geddit?). But there's NOTHING to back it up.

Is this just a weak attempt to generate uncertainty in savers' minds and encourage people to bring their savings back to the UK? It certainly looks like it.

Thursday, March 27, 2008 09:00AM Report Comment
 

4. This comment has been removed as it was found to be in breach of our Blog Policies.

 

5. Hyrax said...

Yes I agree Paul.
Scurillous media... British press has been rumour mongering for weeks. What are the facts..give a dog a bad name.
Trying to scare UK savers to bring their billions back to blighty where its needed?! Hard for UK to compete when banks use the BOE rate
to short change savers when lipor is near 6%. Nice try!

Thursday, March 27, 2008 09:02AM Report Comment
 

6. seanb303 said...

iceland doesen't have any cdo exposure just cash
that's better than the uk by miles

Thursday, March 27, 2008 09:10AM Report Comment
 

7. rickyb said...

We should always chase the highest savings rates, if only to force the greedy, complacent UK banks into raising their rates for savers.

Thursday, March 27, 2008 09:20AM Report Comment
 

8. malct said...

CIA World Fact Book accessible from HPC resources page

2. seanb303 said...
iceland doesen't have any cdo exposure just cash - not according to the CIA

that's better than the uk by miles - er yes OK better than UK

Rank Order - Current account balances

136 Iceland $ -3,384,000,000 2007 est.

162 United Kingdom $ -111,000,000,000 2007 est.

to be fair these are only estimates has Iceland made great progress then?

https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/rankorder/2187rank.html

Thursday, March 27, 2008 09:27AM Report Comment
 

9. Davidg said...

> his article is proclaiming that Iceland is a risk right now but gives no facts or figures to substantiate it

did you read the article?

"The spreads on Icelandic bank debt have risen above 800 basis points, near levels seen in Bear Stearns' debt before the Federal Reserve's rescue."

Someone on HPC posted some information about Kaupthing the other day, it looks to be in a very bad place at the moment plus you probably wouldn't get your money back... well not in pounds sterling, if it went belly up.

Thursday, March 27, 2008 09:46AM Report Comment
 

10. mark said...

looks like we could runs on these banks as this gets around the public domain....

Thursday, March 27, 2008 09:46AM Report Comment
 

11. uncle tom said...

Invest in Icesave if you feel brave, but I'm not at all sure that the UK government will compensate you if it goes down.

It may have UK offices, and take deposits in sterling, but it is still, essentially, a foreign bank.

The government got enough flak over Northern Rock - if a foreign bank goes down they won't be rushing to bail it out!

Thursday, March 27, 2008 10:06AM Report Comment
 

12. Realist said...

They have only upped their asset bases by massive borrowing on the international markets. Now that confidence in the Icelandic banks has been shaken, their cost of borrowing is going through the roof. Like house prices in this country, the Icelandic/Baltic "economic miracle" has been pumped up by cheap and easy credit which is no longer available.

Thursday, March 27, 2008 10:11AM Report Comment
 

13. paul said...

UT, its still covered by the FSA compensation scheme - so no more or less safe than any other UK bank.

Thursday, March 27, 2008 10:16AM Report Comment
 

14. sold 2 rent 1 said...

This information war is turning out to be extremely complex.

Articles like this could spark a currency crisis - a self fullfilling prophecy.
To be fair Ambrose has warned of this currency crisis for 12-18 months now

There are lots of unsustainable practices that can and probably will unravel and lightening speed.

My advice - spread your risks.

Thursday, March 27, 2008 10:18AM Report Comment
 

15. Si said...

A blast from the past:

http://www.housepricecrash.co.uk/newsblog/2007/05/blog-icesave-credit-rating-downgraded-notches-4104.php

Amazing how right some of the comments were.

Thursday, March 27, 2008 10:21AM Report Comment
 

16. Mjs9691 said...

Looks like the Torygraph have got the daggers out for Iceland, it certainly looks like a sustained atack; maybe there are some vested interests that are pissed with the fact that 150 000 British Investors have put money there?

Thursday, March 27, 2008 10:25AM Report Comment
 

17. Cheekie Charlie said...

"Paul said UT, its still covered by the FSA compensation scheme"
You need to read the small print on this one! Icesave is covered by the passport scheme where the FSCS will only cover the shortfall from the banks own country's compensation scheme! So you will have to chase the bulk of the compensation yourself! However kaupthing are wholly a member of the FSCS so the UK government will protect the first £35K. However the credit default swap on Kaupthing is worse than Bear stearns was just before it went under.

Thursday, March 27, 2008 10:30AM Report Comment
 

18. rickyb said...

Paul yes it's covered by the FSA compensation scheme, but it could take up to 6 months from the time your claim under the scheme has been assessed as valid.

Thursday, March 27, 2008 10:44AM Report Comment
 

19. theboltonfury said...

S2r - haven't we essentially been in an information war since the beginning of time. Don't the plebs always want to know what's going on and this is nothing different?

Thursday, March 27, 2008 10:54AM Report Comment
 

20. p. doff said...

Have you seen the comments after the article. There is a link to a film on youtube about the carry trade from Japan to Iceland. I know it was shown on Al-Jazeera but I found it interesting. Usual story - money borrowed cheap in Japan and invested in Iceland for a good return. Iceland has 'spent' the money by investing eg in commercial property and businesses in UK. Upshot is - very great risk as carry trade unwinds.

I personally think I'll give Icelandic banks a miss.

Thursday, March 27, 2008 10:57AM Report Comment
 

21. sold 2 rent 1 said...

theboltonfury,

"S2r - haven't we essentially been in an information war since the beginning of time. Don't the plebs always want to know what's going on and this is nothing different?"

True. But there is one thing that is fundamentally different now. The internet. Information can be easily shared by the masses. The controlling authorities will put up a fight but they no longer have the upper hand.

The Calleman/Lungold model says by the autumn the world will be a different place as the exposure of the corruption at all levels in the power structure will be unravelled. Can't wait.

Thursday, March 27, 2008 11:42AM Report Comment
 

22. happyrenterz said...

I have relatives in South Africa. Their housing bubble is about the same as UK's, i.e. a bubble ready to crash. The current account deficit was blamed on "infrastructure investment" but the rolling power cuts now being experienced make you wonder what that infrastructure was. Most likely new stadiums for the 2010 World Cup.

Thursday, March 27, 2008 11:57AM Report Comment
 

23. uncle tom said...

Quote from Paul (Re. Icesave) "UT, its still covered by the FSA compensation scheme - so no more or less safe than any other UK bank."

- Are you sure?

The scheme (as I understand it) only covers UK authorised banks - the latest list is here:

http://www.fsa.gov.uk/pubs/list_banks/2008/feb08.pdf

I don't see either Icesave or Landsbanki on the list...

Thursday, March 27, 2008 12:32PM Report Comment
 

24. uncle tom said...

A bit more digging..

Landsbanki is listed as a bank that is "entitled" to operate, but is not listed as one that is "authorised"

If I had savings with Icesave, I'd want it in writing from the FSA that they are part of the scheme!

Thursday, March 27, 2008 12:41PM Report Comment
 

25. p. doff said...

ut @ 24
I seem to remember reading somewhere that Icelandic compensation scheme is different from our FSA - only up to £16K. As they are 'entitled', I think you can only get £19k from FSA and you would have to chase the £16k from Iceland. Anybody know more on this?

Thursday, March 27, 2008 12:53PM Report Comment
 

26. uncle tom said...

I wonder who is underwriting the Icelandic scheme? - if Landsbanki went down, Iceland would be effectively bankrupt

Also, does it apply to foreign investors?

Thursday, March 27, 2008 12:58PM Report Comment
 

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