Saturday, May 26, 2007
HPC spokesman on national radio
Jeremy Vine on Radio 2: Housing market crash
Jonathon Davis, aka 'Financial Planner' (the founder(?) of HPC.co.uk and a regular on the forum) talks to Jeremy Vine about HPC and even the guy speaking up for property investors agrees that (a) prices go 'up and down' and that it's a good time for buyers to wait..! Fast forward one hour and start listening after the 1pm news.
Posted by bidin\'matime @ 04:31 AM (365 views) Add Comment
12 Comments
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1. bidin'matime said...
Sorry, guys - I copied the web-page URL, but when you click it, I see it takes you to a generic BBC radio page. It was Friday's Jeremy Vine show, which involves one more click on the link from that page.
2. Wilee said...
Great to see the issues getting publicity in the wider media and rational argument put forward. Worth listening to.
I was amused (bemused?) by the caller who spoke about the last crash and who leveled the claim that hoping and waiting for a crash now might make you a "vulture" wanting to snap up a re-possessed home on the cheap.
What if you want a home to live in and like any other major purchase in life you have thought about it at length, and having carefully weighted up the value to you against the purchase price you simply conclude that housing is currently over-priced, and not good value for money, compared to other goods / average earnings? Personally I'd feel a lot more comfortable buying at a traditional a 3 to 4 times salary multiple.
Clare the FTW "First Timer Waiter" from Torquay who follows after talks great sense - she said it took the last crash to enable her parents to first get their foot on the ladder.
3. confused76 said...
I listen to it and I recommend it
Jonathan was given (or grabbed) much more space than the others, strange...
4. confused76 said...
Guys,
what do you think about that person from Folkestone(?) who called Jonathan a "vulture"...
and then he said "I guess vultures are needed by the ecosystem"
what a deluded pr**k! can you believe these BTL speculators now crying vultures... I wanna see them lining up in front of court houses to have their property repossessed! B@****ds!
5. Crash Bandicoot said...
I assume that we are supposed to think that the BTL'ers are providing a social service rather than seeking to line their pockets by "having someone else pay their mortgage". It looks like the time is arriving when some are questioning their "investment" decisions.
6. tipping point said...
confused76, easy there. The poor sods about to see quite a large slice of his perceived personal wealth disappear. If he didn't half expect it himself he wouldn't be using the term at all. You can expect a lot more of the same when the market crashes.
7. nearly30 said...
confused76 - I heard that comment about 'vultures' live on Friday and that really got me mad.
What on earth was he on about - did the caller not have a brain?
Why would a FTB or any other punter be classed as a vulture when they take advantage of buying a property [presumably one that has been repossed or massively marked-down] for a reasonable market price?
FTBs and most other normal people have suffered for a long time thanks to the Real Vultures who [just becuase they have capital in a house and can manouvere quickly] have bought and continued to buy more and more extra [surplus] properties for their 'investment portfolios'. I see them as a very negative force in society and the nasty effects of the recent housing policies.
I say good if properties can be bought 'on the cheap' if in fact they are not actually 'cheap' per se - and that their prices are just corrected due to previous over-inflation and/or poor debt management.
I'm fed up with the arguement about supply and demand - just start taxing the buy-to-letters as businesses and have done with it [as it should be] - then let us see if there is a supply and demand issue and what the 'true' price of housing really is.
IMHO they is just an over abundance of speculators and cod-landlord property tycoons that have abused the system - effectively gaining a reasonable business tax break through lax lending. If you want a property for a commercial enterprise they you can but it has to be a business loan with business taxes too.
8. tony marshall said...
Nearly 30:-
BTL'S are taxed on income, just like anyone else - many just don’t make any profit! If, as you wished, they were really treated as normal businesses, they'd get tax relief for their losses against other income – as it is, they can only set them against other rental profits (if any). If they were treated as businesses, they would also pay a lower rate of capital gains tax on the profit when they sell. So be careful what you wish for..!
9. confused76 said...
Tony,
BTLers are society deadweight. They have cornered the market for the FTBers so they can extract rent from increased masses of people who cannot afford to buy. This practice is illegal in most regulated markets. Capital invested in housing is capital taken away from productive activities. Spiralling cost of housing translates in loss of competitiveness for the UK as a whole. Once the corporate restructuring fad and the hedge fund craze is over the UK will be left with a mountain of debt. We will be the world laughing stock or another Japan.
10. paolo88888 said...
Confused,
You cannot STR unless you can find a BTL to rent from. So they are performing a useful service.
An Owner-Occupier is a BTL and tenant roled up into one - a landlord who rents to him/herself. But amazingly, BTL pays CGT only if the tenant is someone else, otherwise the main home exemption can be claimed.
But wait, in a HPC, BTL will not incur gains, but losses which can be offset against other gains on shares for example, and the losses can be carried forward indefinitely. The scale of HPC being talked about on this site should mean that the typical BTL will avoid CGT for life. How the owner-occupier will envy this!
11. confused76 said...
Paolo.... please....
I am renting only because my rent is (much) less than what the bank would charge me in interests to buy the flat where I live. I did try to buy and was priced out by BTLers who buy chains of properties supported by bank managers eager to meet their sales targets.
The system is f@cked! BTLers employ estate agents are their financial analysts and advisors, we are one step away from pure madness! (or are we? this is already pure madness)
Losses cannot be carried forward indefinitely, there is a limit of a few years for corporations (not sure individuals)
I do not understand your point... owner-occupiers are already "post-tax" since their interests are not tax deductible. There is a CGT exemption on first home, but like in many other countries
With leverage ratios of 70%-80%, small price setbacks of 5-10% will make a big hole in the pockets of the BTLers, like it happened back in 2005... I cant wait!
12. bidin'matime said...
Confused said “I am renting only because my rent is (much) less than what the bank would charge me in interests to buy the flat where I live.”
So enjoy being subsidised by your landlord! He’s either paying that mortgage interest or losing interest on the money he could raise by selling up and putting the proceeds in the bank. So he’s the one losing money, not you! It’s once the BTLers realise this that they will start to sell and the whole lot will come tumbling down – big time. Just sit tight and watch the show from the comfort of your (unmortgaged-up-to-the-hilt) armchair!