Hello Forestfire.

I apologise sincerely if my evidently inane ramblings have proven boring.

In your posts you have accused people directly and by implication of being

a) boring
ill-informed
c) madly wrong
d) Crazy
e) wafflers
f) biased
g) pontificating

and more so.

You may well be right in all these things of course.

However, you rarely are specific and it is therefore difficult or impossible for people to answer or respond your criticisms. It's sort of as you view postings as opinions if you loosely agree, but see them as waffle hyperbole or pontificating if you don't.

So, you criticise people for saying 'xyz' because they don't have experience of the Spanish market; but when they respond by saying they have, you never acknowledge but effortlessly change tack and start to criticise another aspect of their views such as wording or bias etc.

You may get more stimulating input of interest if instead of putting non-specific broadsides into contributors, you tried saying something such as "why do you think xyz" or "I don't agree because..." or "don't you think.....".

If not, you may find that many people just will give up offering their input and contributions because nobody wants to get slated and patronised because of their style or unfashionable views etc. The forum then becomes incestuous or cliqueish with only bullet-point witties, personal anecdotes or cut-and-paste media outpourings all putting forward the 'approved' line. It is a classic danger many forums drift into.

However, I wish to bore you no further so will make no further contribution other than to wish the forum well. Final PS - oil trading rates - excited 'no' but slight positive indicator 'yes' given it is better than predicted some time back but as I do not work in the oil industry, do not trade oil futures, or live in Texas, then my opinion presumably has no value.

Hi Happysort

It is very refreshing to hear somebody who actually looks at the whole situation with a level headed opinion. This forum is dominated by people who will fight tooth and nail to slam home to people that Spain is dead in the water and full of corruption. They all have their reasons for doing this and because of this will only acknowledge discourse that fits into their narrow viewpoint.

I think we both have acknowledged that certain markets in Spain will crash further and possibly 15% or more of Brits in Spain would actually like to return but are trapped or would like to sell but can't. I dont think Forestfire or anybody else on here would deny this.

What I think people on this forum find difficult to believe is that the "majority" of people buying in Spain are actually very satisfied and that for many the long term investment potential still remains. The economy will worsen and recession is on the cards but as always the economy will bounce back at some point. Happysort is spot on when he says that those buying in prime areas (on the coast, close to major resorts) will pull out of the gloom quicker than those who bought Fincas miles from nowhere or "inland resorts" more than 15mins from the coast. This is just common sense thinking.

I remember having a huge debate on this forum around Xmas time with a lady who declared that people would stay in the UK and reject Spanish holidays because the UK was getting warmer!!!!! I notice she hasn't posted for some time which is a shame.

It is no small point that Spain offers all year round sunshine and is within a 4 hour flight from most of Europe. It could be that as Flight taxes increase and household budgets decrease the long haul crowd begin to populate more exclusive areas on the Spanish Costas. As again Happysort quite rightly mentioned the weather and scenery are a couple of things international economic problems fail to disrupt.

As I have said before I lived in Spain for two years so wouldn't say I was a tourist.

I have to add that I live in Spain and have done for the last 6 years. I run a business, speak fluent Spanish and have many Spanish friends. The truth is that the whole economy is in a terrible state. To assume that the costas are the only areas that are suffering from the economic downturn is incorrect. The Spanish have bought into the home ownership dream as much as any other nation and property has been constructed for Spanish residential and holiday markets on a huge scale all over the country. Every week El Pais reports on the hundreds of thousands of empty apartments in Madrid alone, whilst my Bank manager tells me weekly that the number of her clients defaulting on mortgage payments increases every week. Banks have now closed the door on lending. Rising mortgage costs and falling wages have seen more than 1 of my Spanish friends forced to rent out their properties and the flooded rental market has seen a fall in rents meaning it has become increasingly difficult to cover mortgage costs by rental income. Its a vicious circle that has seen the 1st apartment keys being handed back to the banks.

As a business owner I crossed my fingers for August during the Winter (the worst for 6 years!) and the roads are empty. The bars have tumbleweed blowing through them and restaurants are shutting every week. My friends in the hotel business tell me their bookings are good for this year but only when they offer cheap all-inclusive packages to lure cash strapped tourists who are being more careful with their hard earned euros since the exchange rate crippled them and credit crunch happened. Go to the beaches on Sunday and there are increasingly more Spanish tourists who come with their own sun beds, umbrellas and cool boxes since the cost of lying by the beach bar has rocked so much in the last few years and wages are now much lower. Speak to any bar owner in a busy coastal resort and they will tell you that the trade is down. Little wonder since the Spanish youth prefer to drink on the streets from supermarket bottles of rum, vodka and beer and the once affluent people from Madrid, Seville & Barcelona don’t have the easy money made from property over the last few years to spend at the bars. My accountant (Spanish) tells me she is glad Zapatero came back from his holiday earlier than planned and hopes he finally owns up to the fact that Spain is in trouble. He has played down the crisis all year.

If you are a cash buyer there are some great deals around. They might be better in a year’s time. I would rent unless you get a cracking deal simply because I think the taxes (12%) on top of the price mean that you’ll have to wait a long time in a sliding market to get your money back, let alone make a profit. That said, my Father is 59 and enjoying his retirement years. He is buying a home as a home. He comes over 8-10 times per year, sees his grand child and enjoys the sunshine. He leaves his clothes there, all his books and my brothers and sisters can use the place as well. For him, if its there when he dies, he´ll pass it onto his children-. Hes not looking to sell the place and make a quick buck.

And in 2 years you had time to:
- understand Spanish society )
- know the way Spanish people think )
- know the Spanish economy )

NO wonder you do not distinguish the elbow from the **** in what concerns Spain.

Yep, I think this is a very important point to make. For your father the only difference he is likely to find is that he can buy somewhere slightly cheaper. OK so it may be even cheaper in a years time but hey if he aint selling in his lifetime then why waste a year waiting for prices to fall when you want to just start enjoying your retirement ASAP.

In terms of tourists it sounds to me as if you have picked a poor location to set up a business. The rest of Spain is booming. My folks are out in Spain at the moment (at my house for the 6th year running) and they tell me that the area has never been so busy (they have actually built a third beach bar on a mile stretch of beach). They have resorted now to making sure restaurants are booked a few days before going, something they have never had to do before. Also if the Ministry of Industry,Tourism and Trade are to be believed then numbers are up over 3% on 2007 which was before 2008 the busiest year on record for Spanish tourism.....

.

Spain is in second position for both numbers of tourists (after France) and amount spent (after USA).

After the lousy Summer we have had in Northern Europe I expect 2009 will be even bigger and better.

With regards people from all over Spain feeling the pinch, I fully agree this is happening with those who foolishly bought investment properties and those who bought at the peak but in Spain people weren't into BTL like they were in the UK or Ireland. In Spain the majority of people who buy houses buy them for life. As I think Happysort mentioned in one of his posts the Spanish Property Market isnt really a market as we know it. People rarely move house like they do in the UK so the effect is reduced when mortgage approvals grind to a halt. Transactions have only dropped dramatically in properties usually bought by foreign investors.

Well not that it is any of your business but my Mother is half Spanish. My grandfather is from Guadalajara but moved to the UK during the Civil War as a young man.
My parents lived in a town called Alcoy for many years and as a child I probably went there about 25 times between the ages of 4 and 19. I don't claim to be Spanish or indeed understand the way Spanish people think but I do have many many good Spanish friends. I have owned a house in Spain for many years and keep in regular contact with everybody over there. As a result of this I would like to think my close to 40 year connection with Spain would offer me a better insight than many who may have lived there for 5 or 6 years and see only a recent picture of the country. I'd also like to think that I was beyond a "tourist with rose tinted spectacles".

dont believe it ... lots of people dont mean lots of spending

And for the record, my business is not in a poor loaction. Prime Puerto Banus ..... its performed well for the last 6 years.

The euro/sterling exchange rate is so poor at the moment and destinations such as Egypt, Turkey, Morocco & the States offer sun, sea and sunshine at less money. Your parents might say the place is packed but here on the Costa del Sol I can tell you its busy but not a patch on last year. I looked at the arrivals data on the Spanish tourist information site and yep ... the 2nd quarter was down on last year. My main suppliers have told me that their best customer are 60% down from last year on trade simply because people are not spending what they used to spend. The supermarkets on the contrary are heaving. I own a holiday apartment as well as my own home and I have 2 weeks free in August for the 1st time EVER. Also, my average weekly rent has dropped from between 800-1000€ per week to between 600-800€ per week. It might sound like a lot but take off my 2 weeks, I only have 10 weeks of a season instead of 12. I have a small mortgage to cover but if I didnt I´d be panicking. Long term lets are performing better but crippling community fees and lower rents have meant that lots of people are still topping up their rental properties from their own pockets. I know lots would like to jump ship but believe that things might get better if only they could hold on. With the worldwide credit crunch I wonder how long they can ......

For domestic tourists, the beach is free, hotel rooms are cheap BUT the bars, sunbeds, restaurants etc etc are all an added extra that they can do without.

Unemployment in the hospitality industry this summer is 20% up on last year according to the Sur newspaper, and this is simply because the demand is not here. Bargains, bargains galore, if only the banks woud lend!!

Hi Costalot,

Welcome to the forum from another integrator, not an expat! An excellent post which sums up the current situation in a nutshell. I would be interested to know which part of Spain you are based and what line of business you are in. I live on the Almerian coast and although I don´t live in the tourist area, I do have property there. It will be interesting to see how many of the expat bars will have closed down by Christmas.

MIS

Hi, I live in Marbella and am in the food business. I tried my hand at being an EA for the 1st 6 months when I came here but I could see what was coming as soon as I arrived!! Recently lots of the "old school" EAs here have been headhunted by developers working in Dubai and over the last 12 months I have watched 25 or so of my friends move over there. Watch out Dubai off-plan is all I can say! A year ago some went to the Carribbean and 3 years ago some went to Bulgaria & Germany.... lots sell ínternational destinations now

I think the Marbella market will come back, but itll take time. If it wasnt for the credit crunch and the strong euro, more people would be here this summer spending and keeping the bars open. I firmly believe that people have not fallen out of love with Spain, lots just cant afford it at the moment. I want Jimmy Choos over Clarks but I cant afford to be choosy. When I can, Ill choose the Jimmy Choos believe me!

The UK & Irish media have been trashing Spain and the Costas for years. It was refreshing to see Bulgaria on the TV 2 weeks ago .... I would love to see more of it and I firmly believe we will. I know people who own property in fantastic locations all over Spain who paid nothing for them 20 or so years ago and they are still laughing all the way to the bank. I just hope that I can hold on that long!!!!!! I feel the time to buy property bargains is when the market has reached a state of no confidence, and I believe we have nearly reached that in Marbella. Just look at these forums!!!! Then who will be laughing all the way to the bank in the next 20 years? Before they do however, I believe Zapertero needs to pull his socks up and the EU needs to look into issues such as land grab and illegally built properties bought in good faith that might be knocked down.

Well just to add another slant on this discussion....I own and an apartment rental business in Conil de la Frontera, which is one of the most popular resorts for spanish holiday makers, Costa de la Luz. As expected we are full for all of August, as we were for all of July. There is barely a room to be had in the town. The difference this year is the Spanish are coming for a week as opposed to the usual quincena. I do think that they are eating in more this year but the bars, restaurants and clubs are still heaving with people everyday.

I do however think the economy is in a bad way, and it will be 2010 onwards before we see any green shoots of recovery, we are going through a correction which was badly needed.

I haven't posted on the forum for a while because I felt there was no point. There are some very sad people who frequent this place who seem hell bent on knocking everyone and anyone. I prefer to listen to people with first hand experience then make up my own mind. The world is full of bullshitters.

I genuinely hope you are lying to just knock the Spanish market because if you have a business in Puerto Banus it must be the in serious trouble. Not only have you got the time to post on here in August, your busiest month but I also have a fella sat right next to me as I write who a day ago was in Puerto Banus and has been there for the past 2 weeks. He dropped a yacht off in Duquesa before staying at a friend of ours villa on the outskirts of Marbella.

Apparently Puerto Banus is heaving and he could not find a seat in a restaurant anywhere from the port to 2 streets in most evenings...very frustrating. The bars are packed and his plane ticket back was £350 because the flight was full. Where is your bar/restaurant in PB?

Costalot I do hope these 4 posts aren't just a wind up because it would be good to hear from a genuine business person in Spain. May be the bars/restaurants are full but may be people are buying one bottle rather than two bottles of wine. May be they are having the Spag Bol rather than the fillet steak. What you fail to see is that Spain is a budget destination. If anything the Credit Crunch would cause tourism to go up which in fact it seems it has done. It is certainly no Jimmy Choo but rather a Hi-Tech Trainer. A Jimmy Choo would be Sandy Lane Barbados, Cuba, Mexico, Maldives, Bora Bora, Thailand or Tahiti....certainly not a week in Marbella

I was talking to a friend who lives in PB the other day. He has lived in Spain a lot longer than me. He remarked that he was seeing business shutting down in the "height" of the season and could now get 25% discount on golf, which he has never been able to before.
Spain may in general be a budget destination -I don't think it's particularly cheap having said that. PB is far from budget though, some would say that it is top end.

25% Discount on golf...sounds great. Sorry I had those tinted specs on again

I agree that PB is seen as the top end of the Spanish Holiday Market. Not my scene but certainly some rich folk (or people wanting to look rich) in and around that area.

Sad to hear of businesses going under. I have to say I am surprised but then the Euro Xchange rate is probably having some effect. Probably as I mentioned people ordering cheaper meals, cheaper bottles of wine. It sounds like numbers are up but profits are down which I suppose makes some kind of sense.

Why should I be lying to wind people up???? Give me a break!

My PB site is close to El Corte Ingles and the PYR hotel. I also have 2 other sites: 1 in Marbella and 1 in Miraflores. The PB 1 causes me the most concern because there is a definite downturn in the no of people coming to PB this year. The average tourist stay is shorter and the average spend less. My Miraflores site is also down, but my rent is less so I am not as worried. Marbella is terrible, but its more dependent on office workers than tourists. Since so many offices have shut down in the area, this has affected me a lot, but again, my rent isn´t so high so I worry less.

My trade across all sites is mostly lunch and breakfast trade. I also work a lot with local businesses. My office catering is 70% down on last year alone ... lots of the companies I have dealt with over the last 4 years or so are just not here and even the large ones have cut back a lot on general spending.

I negotiated a reduction in the PB rent earlier this year because of the poor winter. Basically I was paying for prime high-street location, but there were no people. Since there are so many locales up for rent in PB, my landlord knew I could go somewhere else and negotiate a better deal so he gave in. Since this summer has been so bad, we are going to do the same again.

Even Subway in Banus has closed.

If you think Marbella is a budget destination ... I disagree. Think Nikki Beach, Olivia Valere, The Marbella Club, Las Dunas Hotel, The Ocean Club, Saudi Kings.... the list goes on....

Despite there being lots of people around in the summer, we only have 12 weeks to make our money. This money has to last us through the winter and most of the Spring. I cant stress enough the importance of this. You might hear that its heaving now, but a poor June, October & December can hurt us food business owners more than you can imagine. Again, lots of poeple do not mean lots of spending and with rising food costs, a strong euro and lots of competition, its getting harder and harder to turn a profit.

I have time in August to write on this forum because I have a staff who work for me. It costs me less in wages than last year because there are so few jobs around which I suppose is 1 good thing about a downturn in the economy!

This will be my last post on this forum until I have some new and interesting information to share regarding the housing market. I dont really have much more to add and I am not here to defend or justify myself. I just hope the next piece of news will be about occupation licenses! I am sure there are some readers who would like to hear about these in Marbella

I believe that was due to supply problems with Reggae Reggae sauce. Nasty incident involving a dreadlock and an industrial mixer.

Thanks for posting. I´m interested in what you´ve got to say even if others aren´t. A little snippet from the Spanish community where I live could explain a lot of your experiences. I was chatting to one of the neighbours in the pool and he mentioned that he was on a months forced leave as his company had decided to pack up for August due to lack of business. Obviously, he´s not exactly over the moon, especially with a new baby in tow. He also mentioned he wouldn´t be visiting any relatives during his break due to lack of funds and when they came to visit him, they would be taking big cool boxes down to the beach with enough supplies for the whole day, thereby avoiding the need to visit the bars and restaurants. Not looking good for everybody at the moment.

As I sit here on a cold, damp and overcast day in Engand do you know how ironic that sounds. It sounds like things are not looking good for him having to drag his cool box down to the beach like that. Must be terrible having to make your family visit you and endure the pool and beach!!!

So restaurants and bars go out of business, so what!!. They all probably popped up over the past 5-10 years to accommodate over indulgent Brits or extravagent locals anyway. Whenever I go to Spain I end up spending 90% of my time visiting Spanish friends. The odd one takes me to a workers cafe for a Menu del Dia but the rest cook me up food and we eat on their terrace. This is what the majority of Spanish people do and you know this MarkinSpain better than anyone. The locals shop in the markets and when you can buy fresh fish, olives, tomatos, seafood etc why wouldnt you. There is nothing better than enjoying a relaxed 3 hour lunch with some nice wine, fresh bread and olives, salad and a selection of meats. Costs very little and is one of lifes great pleasures. If every restaurant and bar in Spain closed tomorrow it wouldnt make a bit of difference to me, the locals or visiting Spanish.

Hi Einstein et al, can you lot tell me if it's true that the non residence tax in Spain has been declared illegal by the EU? When my Mum, who lived in Spain died we had to pay a vast amount of tax-death duties, extranjero taxes, capital gains, it came to nearly 40%. I heard that the extranjero tax wasn't legal and would have to be re-imbursed?

My reply was to Costalot for a possible explanation as to why his trade was down, but seeing as you insist on sticking your oar in to everyone´s posts about Spain like an attention seeking child, I´ll answer yours too.

Your implied jealousy about me lounging around in the pool is a bit strange as we all make our choices in life. I chose to leave the rat race and live a free and easyish but frugal life. I doubt you´ll be thinking about Spain when your blowing your wages on wine, women and song at the weekend!

OK my vecino might have to alter his arrangements for spending his days at the beach, but Spanish are just as lazy as English people regarding making the effort to go to the supermarket for all the food, and also doing all the preparation, cooking and washing up at home. It´s far more enjoyable to stroll into a bar, sit down and get fed and waited on hand and foot, but the cash to do this isn´t available. Given a choice, the Spaniards on my community would prefer to take lunch out in restaurant at the beach and perhaps get the barbie out on their terrace in the evening for topping up.

As for bars and restuarants closing, this has a bigger impact on the economy than people realise as the tax take will be significantly less, meaning less money for public services, including the poor sods living on the bottle neck of the A7 from Almería to Malaga who are still waiting for their bypass!

Einstein71-you seemed fairly knowledgable about Spanish affairs until I read that. You must realise what a huge part of Spanish culture eating out is? EVERY Spaniard I know from my two years living out there goes to a tapaceria for lunch and coffee. Many Spanish families eat out regularly in the evening. Unless you meant crappy Brit fish'n'chip dives closing down of course, then you'd be right. Where I lived many bars/restaurants changed hands 2 or 3 times a year and the poor suckers who had relocated for their dream life left Spain potless at the hands of lying estate agents and Gordon Brown-esque local tax men.

Hi Steve

It is true that non residence tax was deemed too high (35%) by the EU and was reduced to a fixed rate of 18%, last year I think. This is the percentage paid on the difference between purchase and sale price taking into account all costs, taxes and fees. Inflation is also taken into account and the vendor can include any work done on the property over the period.

Lets face it though if you bought in the past few years you aren't going to be paying too much capital gains tax

A tapaceria isn't what I meant by restaurant. The ones that have been there for 10+ years will hopefully remain propped up by small transactions (1 euro tapas/2 euro cervesa) the ones that also do the menu del dia for 10 euros will if anything thrive in a more thrifty environment. What I mean by restaurant are the places that charge 20 euros for a main course and 15 euros for a bottle of wine and of course all of those horrible UK food joints you get in the resorts. Good riddance to any pikey looking to make a buck out of egg and chips as far as Im concerned.

I have no doubt the UK will see the same closure of restaurants happening in the next few years.

The problem with the Brit restaurants is that to succeed you must work 15 hours a day YOURSELF and not pay staff while sitting around drinking bottles of Alhambra in the sun. But that's hardly the dream is it? So many naive Brits lose their shirt and the puto estate agents make a killing. Or did. The silver lining for me is to see those charlatans go bust. The small Spanish eateries that are seemingly at the bottom of every apartment block will always do good business.

I think a lot of these businesses popped up because of the UK property boom. I remember meeting one couple through a friend who had just set up a cafe/bar business. This couple were so thick it was unbelievable and had no previous experience of even working in the hospitality industry, never mind owning a business in that industry. They were in their early 30's with 2 kids and the woman had worked as a teaching assistant for a few years but it turned out the bloke had never worked a day in his life. As we spoke I realised it was a full english breakfast and pie and chips place they have set up and unbelievably they were buying everything from Mr UK Supermarket. They spoke no Spanish and didnt even want to deal with Spanish wholesalers. After they left I asked my friend how they had afforded the place and how they expected to survive. It turned out they had sold their "Right to Buy" in Guildford and pocketed a couple of hundred thousand, decided to get a new life abroad. They had a few years to get things right and the last I heard of them they were opening a DVD Rental shop next door and the cafe wasn't doing too well. I suppose they were basically living off of their equity but as soon as that ran out I couldnt see them surviving.

Not quite accurate. The EU told the Spanish govt to stop discriminating against non-Spaniards over CGT. Prior to 2008, the rate was 35% for non-residents and 15% for Spaniards and foreigners who are 'residents.'. This was standardised at 18% for everyone and was backdated, I believe, to 2004, but legal advice would be required to claim for the settlement of an estate from years ago.
The spaniards and residents still have an advantage in that if any 'profit' is re-invested in another home, the tax can be reclaimed.

I can assure you that Spain airfares will not come in at £1000, someone who has a holiday let out there told me so it must be true.

Anyway 15k could buy you a Charles Church appartment over looking East Cowes on the Isle of Wight.

Very interesting post - but you are wrong about the Spanish, they have a very high level of debt at variable mortgage rates. The Spanish themselves will be very badly affected by the credit crunch.

Some interesting news regarding Repossessions...

I was offered a list of repossessions by an EA last week which I was marginally interested in ... A property was on it close to my home so I thought I would look into it as my sister is mildly interested in buying a property close to me if the price was right (of course). Last year a similar apartment went for 225€ so a list price of 95K was interesting. I asked my lawyer to look into the list in greater detail which she did and to my disappointment she told me that the property was not in fact a repossession.

The list was actually a list of properties close to repossession. The list prices were actually the outstanding debt to the bank. "Buyers" are invited to take over the bank’s debt and pay the balance in full. However, they do not own the property until the property has gone to auction. At auction, if there is a bid over the amount of the debt owed, the property is sold to the highest bidder and the original "purchaser" gets the full amount they have paid back plus interest in the region of 6-8% from the bank. If there are no bids over the amount of the debt, the property is then sold to the original person who has already paid the bank its outstanding debt. The problem, my lawyer told me, is that the property could take years to go to auction and it could take years to get the keys or get your money back. She requested a list of all the real repossessions in Spain and the list had fewer than 50 properties on it for the WHOLE of SPAIN! None were in Andalucía where I am based.

So, beware if you are offered repossession property in Spain and get it checked out properly.

I mentioned the property, and the deal, to my sister and she has decided not to pursue it, despite the attractive price tag.

It takes years for the bank to repossess a property in Andalucía and they still are not filtering through despite the current housing crisis.

Thanks costalot, that's a great piece of information!

Thats OK... I am glad somebody is reading this stuff!

I dont know if the banks will lend on these properties. Probably not.

No news about building licenses yet. Hopefully soon.

A very interesting read, thanks to you all

We made the move to Spain 9 years ago, first buying in Torrevieja then 12 months later a villa near Arboleas/Albox. We sold our villa last August but due to complications with the buyer and mortgages, we didn't actually complete till 4 months ago. We agreed to rent our villa back for 6 months from the buyers as the houses we were originally interested in buying had sold by the time we completed and nothing else of interest was available.

So now we are in the position to cash buy again but, with prices around here falling we think it's not a good idea yet. So we are going to rent again maybe for 6 months, maybe even 12, unless a bargain basement property comes along which interests us.

We have no intention whatsoever of moving back to the UK as we love Spain so much and have no financial interest in England anyway as all our money and possessions are here and I'm not old enough to receive a pension anyway.

I'm fairly sure that the falling prices haven't finished falling yet, in fact, in our area the builders are trying to offload ready built apartments and houses at a fair discount and in some cases, 30% off the advertised prices. We'll just sit back and watch what happens I think.

Thanks again for an interesting read

GT40

Could you please name some of these 30% reductions from the developers?

I certainly can, if you wish to PM me, I will

Hello, the problem is that you are too new to receive PM, I could not sent it...

Albox is certainly on my list of places I expect to see 50%+ falls. I would hold off if I was you.

I once went to see a derilict farmhouse there with the parents of a good friend in 1998. It was on for £12,000 but they decided against it as the town itself was quite full of undesirables. I think it was then an attractive place for people with little money to come over, buy cheap properties, do them up and then sell them on. There were a lot of rough people in that whole area. If you knew the locals you could buy an animal outhouse for £3,000, spend 3 months doing it up and then sell it on to an unsuspecting buyer for £25k and that buyer would think that they themselves had got a massive bargain. Some places had 4 or 5 caravans outside with dogs and kids running around semi feral.

I went back around 2004 and saw the same places on for £100k and knew it was all over. why would you pay anything over £30k for a house in a dustbowl more than 40 miles inland. Crazy.

If I was you I would look at another area, try something near Seville or Granada,head down to Motril or Cuevas De Almanzora.

Cuevas is nice but also near Huercal Overa and if you want to be near the coast San Juan de los Terreros

Some good deals here and it is an area just being developed and very popular with the Spanish in summer

Not a bad policy to buy where it is popular with the locals

Not all builders are having to reduce their prices, some just stop building for the time being
But mainly for life style buyers not inexperienced investors!!!.....if you buy with a view to enjoying it yourself and treat the capital growth over the next 5/10 years [ yes values will recover as they did after the 70's crash which was worse than today!] ...as a bonus then there is a lot of fun to be had from a home in Spain....full/part time or just as a holiday home

How do you know how the current crash is? The price cuts in Spain have not even started.
Somebody who paid 30K for a house in 1997 has an evaluation of 180K as of today. That evaluation needs to go to at most 90K in order to make any sense buying that apartment.

I guess lifestyle can wait till 2010 when prices will be better than today.