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Full Version: When Is It A Good Idea To Invest In Builders?
House Price Crash forum > Investment > Investment in general
Colin
When, if at all, would it be a good idea to invest in the likes of Taylor Wimpey.

Is it worth taking a punt on four of them hoping that most will survive into the bull market?

Unlike the last recession when I didn't have money, I have a STR fund that is rapidly being eaten by inflation.

Last time, I would have put £10,000 in Amstrad at 20p in 1991 - peaked at 400p later in the cycle - I don't want to miss out again!

Does anyone have any ideas or insights into the survivability of the builders?
mikeymadman
One will die. One will have a bail out that seriously dilutes existing shareholder capital. One will survive and thrive.

And if you are brave enough to be able to guess which will be which...
Zadkiel
QUOTE (mikeymadman @ Jul 3 2008, 08:51 PM) *
One will die. One will have a bail out that seriously dilutes existing shareholder capital. One will survive and thrive.

And if you are brave enough to be able to guess which will be which...



The winner will be the one who has the best balance of lower debt and has secured longer-term the lowest financing rates on that debt.
DrGUID
Steer well clear IMHO - yes most will survive, but shareholdings will no doubt be massively diluted by private equity/debt restructuring etc. etc.

Keep your eyes peeled on the IUKD.L share price. When it bottoms out the buying opportunity of a decade may be upon us. I think that the big money will be in commodities for the next few months or years though, so I'm not expecting an imminent recovery.

http://www.ishares.co.uk/fund/fund_perform...o?fundId=157749
ajay
I was thinking thse three main sectors that have crashed are, Building, banks, retail, and i am taking a chnace on retail as the most likely of the three to survive the long term for shareholders.

I like sainburys, Marks and spencers, tesco, dixons, not sure which one though..
DrGUID
QUOTE (goldman @ Jul 6 2008, 03:53 PM) *
I was thinking thse three main sectors that have crashed are, Building, banks, retail, and i am taking a chnace on retail as the most likely of the three to survive the long term for shareholders.

I like sainburys, Marks and spencers, tesco, dixons, not sure which one though..


Sainsburys is being heavily shorted - be careful.

All of these are good for the long term, but I expect they will get much cheaper laugh.gif .
ChumpusRex
QUOTE (DrGUID @ Jul 7 2008, 09:15 AM) *
Sainsburys is being heavily shorted - be careful.

All of these are good for the long term, but I expect they will get much cheaper laugh.gif .

I think retail of any kind is a bit risky at present - more so for retail of discretionary goods. This means the big supermarkets are likely to fare better than more upmarket stuff like M&S - but even so, their biggest margins tend to be on discretionary items and household stuff (or their little town centre/corner shops - which are frighteningly expensive - and I could well see more people considering travelling further afield to get a better deal). Even for food and essentials, there are the 'cheap' shops like Asda, and the Continental ones - Lidl and Aldi.

Dixons, in particular, I would say is looking for disaster. What are their main brands: PC world - discretionary, and way, way overpriced - totally uncompetitive with online suppliers. Dixons - Can't imagine that the credit crunch is doing much good for sales of plasma tellies. Currys - Washing machines, fridges, etc. - if people aren't moving home, there isn't going to be much demand for white goods. Other single sector retails are potentially a minefield e.g. - Next. Retailers with big exposure to household goods, e.g. kingfisher (owners of B&Q among other brands) are also potentially risky in the near to medium term; same with carpetright.

If you really want to bet on retilers - then I'd say tesco. Essential products, competitive pricing catering for the majority of price ranges, very large international presence (inc. big presence in multiple merging markets - Eastern Europe, and Asia/pacific). By contrast, Sainsbury's is UK only.

-

Just before posting I just checked out that IUKD fund - have you seen the constituent list? Holy moly, there's some real shite in there (e.g. B&B, carpetright, A&L, Dixons, lots of advertisers). No wonder the yield is so high, the capital values have been absolutely reamed. I particularly like carpetright's stunt, of suffering a catastrophic drop in profitability - so they increase the dividend to prop up the shareprice, instead of cutting costs. That's going to do wonders to the long term value.
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