House Price Crash forum > Does Anyone Own Gold Coins ?

bottletop

Jul 22 2005, 05:08 PM

I'd heard that if you balance a gold coin on the tip of your finger and "ting" it with another one the one on your finger should chime and the sound will last longer than you'd get with a 50p say.

I've tried it with my gold coins and it does work, though it doesn't actually prove they're gold

I buy most of mine from a guy called Richard here who also sells on ebay with a very good feedback. http://www.weightoncoin.com/store/

Never had any problems from there at all.....though you may find I've bought all the cheap ones he had

The 10x QEII pre-decimal sovereign investment parcel he has available is certainly cheaper than goldline (£615 vs £652.50)

Flick

Jul 22 2005, 07:49 PM

QUOTE(cgnao @ Jul 22 2005, 10:18 AM)

Most fakes are exact in weight.

See http://www.fisch.co.za

One must be crazy to buy gold on ebay!

erm ?

In my post, I mention that I weigh and measure.

Then you post to a link saying most fakes are exact in weight.

If you had bothered to read the link you had posted, you would find that a fake that is exact in weight, will be wrong in size.

The link that you post points out a device that both weights and measures.

Well done. (I think)

Ebay has an interesting community of gold dealers. Many of whom own retail shops and have feedback in the thousands.

But I am sure you are far more of an expert in these matters.

cgnao

Jul 22 2005, 08:33 PM

QUOTE(Flick @ Jul 22 2005, 08:49 PM)

erm ?

In my post, I mention that I weigh and measure.

Then you post to a link saying most fakes are exact in weight.

If you had bothered to read the link you had posted, you would find that a fake that is exact in weight, will be wrong in size.

The link that you post points out a device that both weights and measures.

Well done. (I think)

Ebay has an interesting community of gold dealers. Many of whom own retail shops and have feedback in the thousands.

But I am sure you are far more of an expert in these matters.

How do you measure them? Do you know what the tolerances are? I am not an expert but I researched extensively before deciding how to invest in gold. And my research led me to the conclusion that buying coins is not the best way for many reasons, including the risks of buying fakes.

Flick

Jul 22 2005, 09:37 PM

QUOTE(cgnao @ Jul 22 2005, 08:33 PM)

How do you measure them? Do you know what the tolerances are? I am not an expert but I researched extensively before deciding how to invest in gold. And my research led me to the conclusion that buying coins is not the best way for many reasons, including the risks of buying fakes.

As I said, I measure them against each other. Damn I hope they are not all fake.

If you'd bother to have read this site you posted the link to, you'd see a krugerrand made of lead would be 54% larger than a gold one. or 35% lighter.

They are big numbers.

delboypass

Jul 22 2005, 10:44 PM

Cgnao, you say you dont like to invest in gold coins?

How do you like to invest in gold?

What other ways are there. i did take a look at hte meryl and lynch gold fund but that seems to invest in gold mines which i particulary dont want to do.

cgnao

Jul 22 2005, 11:56 PM

www.goldmoney.com

cgnao

Jul 23 2005, 12:07 AM

http://www.coinauthentication.co.uk/newsletter2.html

QUOTE

There were initially two main centres used for making counterfeit sovereigns, Milan and Syria. The coins from Milan were mainly imported into Switzerland and then sent all around the world. Most were sent to Beirut for the Middle East market. Anderson after a visit in January 1956 said, Beirut is the Clapham Junction in the movement of gold in and out of the Near East. The Saudi Arabian Finance Ministry reputedly bought 50,000 of these coins directly from a group of Swiss based traffickers. These Italian counterfeits also went to South America, Western Europe and Greece. The Syrian counterfeits were used mainly in the Middle East or smuggled into India.

The Italian counterfeits were considered to be of a better quality than the Syrian coins. It was suspected by the British authorities that the so-called Swiss counterfeits were merely the best examples of the Italian coins that had been trafficked through Switzerland. During this time the Royal Mint assayed a large number of the counterfeits. The Italian coins, probably mainly from Beraha’s organisation, were found to usually contain between 91.2 to 91.7% gold whereas the Syrian/Lebanese coins, attributed to Chatile and others, varied between 88.0 to 91.5% gold. Genuine sovereigns always contain between 91.6 and 91.7% gold. Beraha was to later boast (Note 1) that he used more gold in his coins than the Royal Mint. The Royal Mint’s assays proved this boast to be as untrustworthy as his sovereigns.

It is difficult to quantify the scale of the problem with any certainty but it is probable that the number of counterfeits was vast. The Treasury estimated that there were up to 300 million sovereigns in circulation in the world in 1955. The Milan counterfeit factory operated by Beraha was one of the first to be closed by the Italian police. It was estimated to be able to produce up to a thousand coins a day. The Swiss police stated that between December 1952 and April 1954 one group of traffickers brought over 400,000 counterfeits into Switzerland from Milan. Again in 1955 Anderson noted an estimate that there was anything between one hundred thousand and a million Italian counterfeits in the 15 to 20 million sovereigns in Greece.

delboypass

Jul 23 2005, 12:07 AM

so you buy and sell based on a gram of gold rather than physically purchasing the gold then?

I suppose actually having the gold is security from these people just walking away with your money if something goes wrong.

cgnao

Jul 23 2005, 12:13 AM

QUOTE(Flick @ Jul 22 2005, 10:37 PM)

As I said, I measure them against each other. Damn I hope they are not all fake.

If you'd bother to have read this site you posted the link to, you'd see a krugerrand made of lead would be 54% larger than a gold one. or 35% lighter.

They are big numbers.

I read it and that was just an explanation. A fake would not be made of 100% lead.

If you had bothered to read further, the tolerance is 0.7%. That is a small number. A coin 1% larger would be very very hard to detect by visual comparison with a good coin.

I detect a little bit of angered concern in your posts.... how many have you bought on ebay?

cgnao

Jul 23 2005, 12:18 AM

QUOTE(delboypass @ Jul 23 2005, 01:07 AM)

so you buy and sell based on a gram of gold rather than physically purchasing the gold then?

I suppose actually having the gold is security from these people just walking away with your money if something goes wrong.

See this

http://www.housepricecrash.co.uk/forum/ind...56&#entry153656

Flick

Jul 23 2005, 05:56 PM

QUOTE(cgnao @ Jul 23 2005, 12:13 AM)

If you had bothered to read further, the tolerance is 0.7%. That is a small number. A coin 1% larger would be very very hard to detect by visual comparison with a good coin.

You are clearly showing an inability to read correctly. The tolerance is -0.7% in weight to allow for wear, not in size. A coin made primarily of lead would show a drastic difference in either size or weight.

My anger was at your sheer arrogance & rudeness demonstrated amply in this and another thread, on a subject of which by your own ommision & demonstration you know nothing about.

cgnao

Jul 23 2005, 06:59 PM

QUOTE(Flick @ Jul 23 2005, 06:56 PM)

My anger was at your sheer arrogance & rudeness demonstrated amply in this and another thread, on a subject of which by your own ommision & demonstration you know nothing about.

Can you buy google shares on ebay? I think it might be a good investment for you.

Sine270

Jul 23 2005, 07:06 PM

C'mon guys. This thread is about gold coins. How did it turn into an argument as you are both on the same side. Obviously both conspiracy theorist/doom mongers like myself (or you wouldnt be interested in physical gold), so why not just discuss the best ways of buying, holding onto/hiding, selling, pro's and con's etc?

cgnao

Jul 23 2005, 07:15 PM

QUOTE(Sine270 @ Jul 23 2005, 08:06 PM)

C'mon guys. This thread is about gold coins. How did it turn into an argument as you are both on the same side. Obviously both conspiracy theorist/doom mongers like myself (or you wouldnt be interested in physical gold), so why not just discuss the best ways of buying, holding onto/hiding, selling, pro's and con's etc?

I just posted some useful info which I gathered years ago from my time consuming research into how to invest on gold safely and economically. He felt insulted I think when I said "one must be crazy to buy gold on ebay". Then he started saying I am arrogant and I didn't read what I posted.

Anyway, I am ready to quit the row.

Sine270

Jul 23 2005, 07:34 PM

At the end of the day, think if you have the ability to test/weigh the coins then its not so risky to buy on ebay, although if you got a fake one I wonder how easy it would be to get a refund. I noticed some dealers on ebay which would probably be safe enough. I personally would prefer to pay a little extra and get them from my local dealer but I have noticed that on ebay all coins seem to sell even though the seller has a very low feedback. I even read some feedbacks where people said they never recieved their coins.
I'll continue to pay an extra tenner and get them from goldline.

Kam

Jul 24 2005, 03:19 PM

Ok I'm think of getting some kruggerrands,

1 or 2 every other month,

Don't trust Ebay or the post, so would prefer to go to a real shop / dealer

Found a company called Baird & Co in Bow

any one heard or dealt with them before, I don't want no fakes as I'm not going to know how to tell.

Price seems ok £256.75 each (via website)
Hoping I can just drive up to Bow and pick them up.

consa

Jul 24 2005, 04:19 PM

I will be diversifying some of my gold to other investment and will be selling 10-12 of my krugers, they are genuine and i have receipt from Chard if anyone wants to save commission PM me!!

delboypass

Jul 24 2005, 04:34 PM

Whats the weight and size of them

cgnao

Jul 24 2005, 04:40 PM

QUOTE(Kam @ Jul 24 2005, 04:19 PM)

Ok I'm think of getting some kruggerrands,

1 or 2 every other month,

Don't trust Ebay or the post, so would prefer to go to a real shop / dealer

Found a company called Baird & Co in Bow

any one heard or dealt with them before, I don't want no fakes as I'm not going to know how to tell.

Price seems ok £256.75 each (via website)
Hoping I can just drive up to Bow and pick them up.

Bought and sold one kruger through them about three years ago to gather experience with the process and decide whether to invest in this way.

I had never seen or touched one, it struck me how heavy the coin was for the size. You can really perceive why gold has been sought after for millennia.

At the time gold was £196/ounce. I paid £206 (i.e. 105% of spot). The price was lower than that published on the internet.

A month later gold climbed to £204/ounce and I sold it back. They paid £201 (i.e. 98.5% of spot).

You can walk in and buy or sell. They only accept cash. They pay you back in cash.

Despite the nice feeling of gold in your hand, buying/selling in this way is expensive and inconvenient, not to mention the storage problem. For this and other reasons I then decided to use goldmoney.

Anyway, it's up to you. Whatever you decide, if you have never held one in your hand I would recommend to buy just one to experience the feeling.

consa

Jul 24 2005, 04:41 PM

QUOTE(delboypass @ Jul 24 2005, 05:34 PM)

Whats the weight and size of them

1oz of course, only the best for me

Sine270

Jul 24 2005, 05:04 PM

QUOTE(Kam @ Jul 24 2005, 03:19 PM)

Ok I'm think of getting some kruggerrands,

1 or 2 every other month,

Don't trust Ebay or the post, so would prefer to go to a real shop / dealer

Found a company called Baird & Co in Bow

any one heard or dealt with them before, I don't want no fakes as I'm not going to know how to tell.

Price seems ok £256.75 each (via website)
Hoping I can just drive up to Bow and pick them up.

Yes. Thats where I get mine. Totally trustworthy by either registered post or by going in in person. They're hard to find though. You should call in advance so they expect you. Opening hours are 9-5 mon to fri.

uforia98

Jul 28 2005, 09:00 PM

QUOTE(uforia98 @ Jul 16 2005, 09:44 PM)

http://www.muenzhandlung-pickel.de/

with a little bit of german you should find what you want (click on the SHOP link). You will have to transfer the money into their bank account though, but it seems a reputable company . I will let you know when I received my coins if you are interested.

BTW, prices for the 1 oz coins droppend by 1 and 2 EUR since I bought them,

Krügerrand 1oz Gold 357,00 EUR
Maple Leaf 1oz Gold 362,00 EUR
Nugget 1oz Gold 362,00 EUR

Got my 3 gold coins this week and am very pleased !

They are right here in front of my monitor and a pleasure to look at. It took them about a week until they were here, I also had to pay 16,50 EUR for shipping but overall I think I would have paid more if I had bought them in the UK. I paid 1102 EUR = 762 GBP, which makes one coin cost around 254 quid. At Goldline they would have cost me (at todays prices) Nugget 274 + Maple Leaf 261 + Krugerrand 258 = 793 w/o shipping, so at least 30 quid more.... Can definitely recommend the German shop. Prices have increase in the meantime though, gold price is rising

dougmilbourne

Jul 30 2005, 01:49 AM

QUOTE(uforia98 @ Jul 28 2005, 05:00 PM)

Got my 3 gold coins this week and am very pleased !

Congrats!

delboypass

Jul 30 2005, 01:54 AM

uforia, where did you purchase from?

uforia98

Jul 30 2005, 06:08 PM

QUOTE(delboypass @ Jul 30 2005, 01:54 AM)

uforia, where did you purchase from?

hi delboypass,

check my previous posts on this thread for some more information, the link is there (all in german though) :

http://www.muenzhandlung-pickel.de/

delboypass

Aug 4 2005, 04:27 PM

Uforia, can i still purchase even though i live inside the UK?

delboypass

Aug 4 2005, 10:50 PM

consa did you ever sell?
Give me a shout with a price. Im still interested in buying but will probably be in a better position in a months time. will have a safe installed by then!!!

uforia98

Aug 5 2005, 10:08 PM

QUOTE(delboypass @ Aug 4 2005, 04:27 PM)

Uforia, can i still purchase even though i live inside the UK?

sure, that's what I did, you can just order from the UK and ship to your UK address. As a first time customer you then just have to transfer the money into their account.

Gwailo

Aug 6 2005, 06:22 AM

QUOTE(uforia98 @ Aug 5 2005, 11:08 PM)

sure, that's what I did, you can just order from the UK and ship to your UK address. As a first time customer you then just have to transfer the money into their account.

Gentlemen,

Don't forget about buying some Silver 1 Oz coins.

There is much work on the net about how the price of Silver is 'set to explode upwards' mainly due to a real shortage of silver being mined and some form of manipulation in the market.

Anyway, at about 4 Quid an Oz........it's a low risk punt and I have started buy-up some nice Silver coins in addition to my Gold collection.

Cheers.

2005

Aug 8 2005, 05:07 PM

I have been looking at buying gold coins from Baird and Co online. This may seem like a silly question but why do they ask you if you are a student?

Could anyone help?

delboypass

Aug 8 2005, 06:48 PM

they dunk your gold in beer!!!

Buy-now-pay-later

Aug 8 2005, 09:14 PM

QUOTE(2005 @ Aug 8 2005, 05:07 PM)

I have been looking at buying gold coins from Baird and Co online. This may seem like a silly question but why do they ask you if you are a student?

Could anyone help?

Are you trying to open an account ?

If you just want to buy investment gold then select what you want and proceed to the checkout. No account is needed.

2005

Aug 8 2005, 09:54 PM

Thanks - worked it out now and ordered my first gold coin

I still can't understand why - when trying to open and account - they want to know if you are a student and want the details of your course leader and name of university and course?

absolutezero

Aug 10 2005, 10:49 AM

Why have lots of countries been selling off their gold reserves?
Do they know the value is about to drop?
Maybe a NASA satellite has detected a huge gold reserve somewhere and it's about to be dug up. That would cause the value to drop.
I know I'm being paranoid, but why have these countries been selling like mad?

delboypass

Aug 11 2005, 08:16 AM

I would have to say to artificially boost their economies to keep check with the rest of the world. Otherwise how else do you raise money without super-inflation.

Lurker at the pleasuredome

Aug 20 2005, 08:04 AM

QUOTE(absolutezero @ Aug 10 2005, 10:49 AM)

Why have lots of countries been selling off their gold reserves?
Do they know the value is about to drop?
Maybe a NASA satellite has detected a huge gold reserve somewhere and it's about to be dug up. That would cause the value to drop.
I know I'm being paranoid, but why have these countries been selling like mad?

QUOTE

In addition, in the '70s, when gold was rising sharply in price, central banks, after having been heavy sellers at $35/oz., sold little or none at higher prices. Central bankers are no different than the momentum players; if the price is rising, they are more likely to be buyers than sellers.

http://www.gata.org/RBCReport.html
http://www.sprott.com/pdf/reasons_to_own_gold.pdf

They have been selling gold because they are momentum players or are trying to surpress the gold price. Recall when the paper money system fell apart in the early 70s the "London Gold Pool" was formed to control the price. So take advantage of the surpressed price before control is lost.

DrBubb

Aug 23 2005, 07:44 AM

Interesting chart:

delboypass

Aug 25 2005, 02:01 PM

QUOTE(DrBubb @ Aug 23 2005, 07:44 AM)

Interesting chart:

what does it mean??

uforia98

Sep 16 2005, 11:39 PM

gold is on its 17 year high, but I suppose I don't need to tell anyone as those who are on this thread probably know anyway.

glad I found this site many months ago, since it made me aware that buying gold these days is a good investment....

mongoose

Sep 17 2005, 01:39 AM

QUOTE(uforia98 @ Sep 17 2005, 12:39 AM)

gold is on its 17 year high, but I suppose I don't need to tell anyone as those who are on this thread probably know anyway.

glad I found this site many months ago, since it made me aware that buying gold these days is a good investment....

Ditto!

Hail the catalysts

Bart of Darkness

Nov 3 2005, 09:27 PM

Having read through this thread a couple of times I'm wondering if anyone has bought coins over the counter recently?

I like the idea of not leaving a paper trail, which would be impossible buying over the Internet or by mail order.

Chard (Blackpool) who I believe did not previously request identification for over the counter purchases, now say on their website that:

Identification (Except for Export Sales)
We are legally obliged to obtain and retain identification records for every purchaser.

Baird & Co. have been mentioned as not requesting ID for buyers calling into their shop, has anybody bought from them recently who can confirm this?

Zanoni3

Nov 6 2005, 10:03 PM

QUOTE(Bart of Darkness @ Nov 3 2005, 10:27 PM) [snapback]227205[/snapback]

Having read through this thread a couple of times I'm wondering if anyone has bought coins over the counter recently?

I like the idea of not leaving a paper trail, which would be impossible buying over the Internet or by mail order.

Chard (Blackpool) who I believe did not previously request identification for over the counter purchases, now say on their website that:

Identification (Except for Export Sales)
We are legally obliged to obtain and retain identification records for every purchaser.

Baird & Co. have been mentioned as not requesting ID for buyers calling into their shop, has anybody bought from them recently who can confirm this?

Baird & Co. have been mentioned as not requesting ID for buyers calling into their shop, has anybody bought from them recently who can confirm this?
[/quote]

Bought gold and mining shares 3 years ago

Look at Peter Hamros POG.L and see what mining shares can do!

GG is worth a look too

Not investment advice but we all owe a GREAT debt to Mr Greenspan

QUOTE(uforia98 @ Sep 17 2005, 12:39 AM) [snapback]191641[/snapback]

gold is on its 17 year high, but I suppose I don't need to tell anyone as those who are on this thread probably know anyway.

glad I found this site many months ago, since it made me aware that buying gold these days is a good investment....

A very good investment, but it hasnt really started to move yet!

Zanoni3

Nov 6 2005, 10:18 PM

QUOTE(mongoose @ Sep 17 2005, 02:39 AM) [snapback]191738[/snapback]

Ditto!

Hail the catalysts

Gold has been good but it hasnt started to move yet

Buying the metal? Look up Rodin or find him at Gold-Eagle forum

Mines too - Peter Hambros POG.L, a lovely chart to see and even better if, like me, you own a few.

Good Luck!

Loftus Road

Nov 7 2005, 11:56 AM

Funny thing about POG. I know absolutely nothing about shares but I had some money spare 6/7 months ago
and read up a bit and everyone talked very highly of Peter Hambro as a person and how he ran his business so I bought some. They were expensive though. I sold up at £8.15 and it gave me a tidy profit. Probably should have kept some but there you go

bottletop

Nov 11 2005, 07:02 PM

managed to pick up the last 3 sovereigns from weightoncoin.com still priced at £64. Now they start from £66

Going from my excel sheet:

Average cost towards the end of 2004 £57

Average cost now £64, about 12% higher.

Also, a 1oz ingot from bairds was £239.25 on 14/02/05, now it's £282.75, which I make to be 18% up in 9 months.

TW11

Nov 12 2005, 12:38 AM

I don't understand the attraction for buying physical gold - unless you really are predicting financial meltdown - in which case, fair enough

The leverage argument for buying gold shares seems pretty convincing to me. Plus of course you can trade in and out easily. Even little ole me has made some good returns on gold shares - better than the rise in the gold price.

Here's a good book btw: Link

malco

Nov 12 2005, 10:06 AM

QUOTE(TW11 @ Nov 12 2005, 12:38 AM) [snapback]232862[/snapback]

I don't understand the attraction for buying physical gold - unless you really are predicting financial meltdown - in which case, fair enough

The only advantage is the interest of having the physical gold, that is, satisfying your curiosity, if you have never held gold bullion (which I had not). In addition, the coins/bars are quite beautiful and make a more satisfying kind of investment than a bit of paper or so many abstract grammes held on the Internet.

I think there may be a reduced risk in holding the physical bullion as against an Internet account. The Internet could go t1ts-up one day, due to a supervirus, or sunspots, or whatever. You just don't know what will happen with a go-go technology.

There is some risk of financial collapse IF we get a full-blown Peak Oil hit in the next few years. The financial system is precarious as it is, due to excess spewing out of credit to all and sundry, which is still going on. If the industrialised economies had to face oil prices leaping about from $50-$150/barrel then that would be that, you'd see a whole string of apparently safe banks rolling four hoofs to the sky as their cash flow failed. Whether physical gold would be an extra advantage over Egold in this case is hard to say. A good touring bicycle and the ability to use it safely would be the most precious personal attribute I can think of.

"Learn to ride a bicycle; you will not regret it." - Mark Twain.

homeless

Nov 27 2005, 05:53 PM

QUOTE(Bart of Darkness @ Nov 3 2005, 09:27 PM) [snapback]227205[/snapback]

Having read through this thread a couple of times I'm wondering if anyone has bought coins over the counter recently?

I like the idea of not leaving a paper trail, which would be impossible buying over the Internet or by mail order.

Chard (Blackpool) who I believe did not previously request identification for over the counter purchases, now say on their website that:

Identification (Except for Export Sales)
We are legally obliged to obtain and retain identification records for every purchaser.

Baird & Co. have been mentioned as not requesting ID for buyers calling into their shop, has anybody bought from them recently who can confirm this?

chards indeed do ask for identity, ive bought and sold some to them, there only 2 minutes from me.but there not the best price and there not the best to sell to either.

try www.onlinecoins.co.uk there are some great dealers there, im a regular customer of many of them

Goldmember

Dec 3 2005, 02:57 AM

To answer the question:

1) gold hidden under your mattress is difficult to trace for tax purposes,

2) there are no fees associated with it, (Brown removed VAT in 2000, possibly to level the playing field between foreign and domestic investors),

3) unit trusts such as Merryl Lynch Gold & General which invests mainly in gold mining stocks will not perform as well as the underlying gold because some investors take profits.

On a side-note: Anyone who posts charts to predict the future is an idiot.

malco

Dec 3 2005, 11:39 AM

QUOTE(Goldmember @ Dec 3 2005, 02:57 AM) [snapback]246398[/snapback]

On a side-note: Anyone who posts charts to predict the future is an idiot.

What about Technical Analysis? Not that I have any expertise there, but many traders seem to use it and I assume they wouldn't do that if it did not, over the long term, grant a degree of benefit.