crash is probably just a dream - i just cannot see it happen

You must be joking. More than 200 small businesses have closed in the last month in a half in Marbella alone.

I have seen properties priced as much as 6m Euros downpriced to 4.5 m Euros.

That's the upper end of the market.

The costa is full of people desperately selling 2 bedroom offplan properties without any prospective buyers.

So although prices haven't actually crashed -yet- for an average 250 k property, the upperend of the market has surely taken a heavy blow. Just look at any REA (which still hasn't gone broke that is) and you'll see them with red stickers downpricing properties.

This year will see more unsold properties on the costa del sol, I live in Rivera and I personaly know two people who have bought offplan two-three years ago and have been unable to sell on. Some completed urbanisations have only a few residents and not much hope of selling the rest.
Local newspapers here are reluctant to tell the full horror of the state of the property market because they don't want to rock the boat, quite recently 'The Sur' ran a story that this year there would be an increase in property prices of 17%.
If you want to live on the costa del sol the best option is to rent.

Just back from La Barrosa, a purpose built resort on the coast near Cadiz, poular with Spaniards and Germans (Fabulous beach and golf courses). Last October the local branch of Interealty Estate agents (biggest in the area) was full of faded photos of overpriced property. It's now closed.

Oh JEEEZZZ i have never heard so much rubbish in my whole life, the bubble has burst, i cant sell................ahhhhhh

Spain is still very muh alive and still kicking very hard, i´m sorry but if YOU are having problems then YOU have´nt done enough home work..

Yes i work and live in spain, all of our clients have and are still making profits, these people are real investors NOT wanna be´s.
This really makes my blood boil.
You have to buy right (which we do), you have to make sure all regulations are being covered (which we do), you have to have guarantees (which we do), your investment is as safe as the amount of home work you put in.
We are still getting a very conservative 50% returns on your investment over a 2 year period...thats 25% per year, where in the hell do you get that..........................please someone tell me.

Cheers
Daz

Oh my God. Myself and 4 friends bought several apartments in Costa Azahar in one of the most reputable developments in the area, right on the sea with great facilities. We bought in Jan 2004 and have spent several months now trying to sell - forget it. And I mean, FORGET IT. None of us have a hope in hell of selling any apartments to even get back what we paid 2 1/2 YEARS AGO. We rang several "for sale" ads draped from windows (they are all over the apartment blocks). The people who replied tried to sell us different ones also! Spain is building ~800,000 (yes, that's right, EIGHT HUNDRED THOUSAND) new units a year, into a goddamn market vacuum. The crash will be exquisitely beautiful, even though I'll be partaking in it(!!). I have resigned myself to owning a useless apartment with ridiculously low rent potential for the next ten years or so! I have the grace to at least have a sense of humour about it. However, you don't need a sense of humour to laugh at your ridiculous post - what planet are you on????!!!!

My Friend I am believe it or not on the same planet as you.......................
My posts States "IF YOU DO YOUR HOME WORK" spain is still a very good place to buy / Invest etc.

Simple..............................

I make a good income, my investors make a good income, my sellers make a good profit and re-buy....simple.
I´m not here to argue the toss with you, and i´m not trying to change YOUR opinion..............you really cant make a difference on my earnings or my life as my invetsors come back to me time and time again, i am truely sorry for your problem and if you need help give me some details on your property and i´ll see what i can do for you......but sometimes as all over the world.....a bad investment is still a bad investment.....................PERIOD

I have just NEVER been involved with one.

My opinion is and until i am proved wrong will still be spain is a very good place to invest if you know what you are doing.
A breif description on the Costa Azahar

Although the capital is called Castelló de la Plana, in fact the province has more mountainous areas than flat ones. Thus, opposite the coastal strip that displays an infinite green carpet that is dotted by orange orchards, the interior is wild. Regions rich in history and monuments, and endowed with extraordinary spots that fortunately remain untouched by man. They have the same aspect today that they did centuries ago, when they were visited by medival men and women.

And please why the hell did you think that the Costa Azahar would make a good investment, holiday home or whatever, i have absolutley no interest in what medival man / woman might have seen, and why would i want mountainous walks instead of flat ones.............sun, sand, fun, childrens entertainment etc etc etc...thats what sells property in spain (and a few other things)...
97% of holidayers want the above, 7% want mountain walks...............????????

Location, location and further more location

Good Luck

Catemite, you bought at or near the top of the market in an area developed only because of the restriction of available land further south. I am not surprised you cannot sell now, but feel for you all the same. Allme is right. The Costa Azahar was not the place to fly and buy to. Had you actually been there before buying?

yeah I screwed up - what the hell, I know it now. All the (honest) UK agents I rang to help me sell the properties admitted that the game is up - buy for yourself by all means but no investment potential of any note anymore in Spain. Some other agents (hard sell idiots) told me they'd help me sell mine but only if i bought another off them!!!! - no offers of huge commissions had any effect; what does that tell you? Oh yeah, and they would not sell me anything SUBJECT to the re-sale of mine, surprise surprise - why have one Lemon when you can have two, eh? OK so I bought in not the best place but seriously, have you read the other posts in this thread, most of them resonate perfectly with my experience. Do me one favour guys, comment on the 800,000 units being churned out each year in Spain. What was I thinking of in '04? God only knows. I bought a couple of properties in Ireland (500K+) since and the increase in value has exceeded the COMPLETE COST of the Spanish mess. Also, the Spanish property is now going to cost me dearly in taxes etc and please, please admit it - in general the rental potential is crap.....

Bishop's Catamite

Come to think of it, that part of Spain is famous for lemons :-)

Yes the rental potential is poor now in much of the Costas because of oversupply and you are right, all those extra units aren't going to make life any easier (although remember Spain isn't just the Costas and hundreds of thousands of immigrants arrive in Spain from South America and Africa every year).

I'm pleased you cleaned up in Ireland though :-)

Catamite etc, even though my reply has been totally overlooked if i can help you then please let me know, NO COMMISSION.
I work for a very large company and am also setting my own site for exclusives.so even though i cant help through the large company I can advertise it for you FREE when my own site is completed.
Even though the location is 100% right, there is always someone who wants tolive somewhere....anywhere
The offer is there

Allme
Good luck

Hi Allme

Just satisfy my curiosity - are you American by any chance?

Thanks
LL

Neither have I.

I happen to be a spanish conveyancing lawyer and I all your email is just rubbish.

I've bought myself in offplans and made money but since 2003 any person whose bought has actually lost money.

You claim that a 25% yield per annum is "very conservative" ( ) and sustainable in Spain currently ? wahahahahaha Pero por favor.....


You are right we come from different planets, mine is Spain I have no idea which one is yours.

Your claims are impossible because besides being a lawyer I happen to invest in property. Please quit your REA gibberish.

Spain is an excellent place to invest but sadly this is not the right moment. I can guarantee with 100% accuracy that anyone who intends to buy property there now will lose money If they are in it for the short term. Properties are taking 30 months to sale on average in the coastal areas and those are official figures which serious REAS don't argue against. Long gone are the days where it took less than a month for a property to sale. That happened 3 years ago certainly, not now. And the proof of this is the countless number of real estate agencies which have gone broke in the last couple of years and litter the spanish streets. Are you also going to rebut this ? Any person whose traveled to Spain within the last year can easily confirm this.

No one can give you a 25% yield per annum it is impossible, either in Spain or anywhere else currently.

NOPE i am not American, i was born and raised in South East London, Peckham to be exact....yeah yeah...Del boy country (so lets get those jokes out the way...ha ha ha)

A lawyer and a property investor a Drakan.....................not a very good lawyer then are you, but then thats not a suprise Spain is full of bad lawyers, bad agents and crocked police services.....blah blah blah blah, as you have correctly said there are the SMALL agents that are falling by the way side.............lots of them.

Listen you are ALL entitled to your opinions, read the tinsa report, check into whatever squeeky clean government report...(oh as most of you may Know, the WHOLE of the Marbella council are in prison...why....because they gave bad licenses etc ofproperty and for other things also.....but guess what we never once invested or gave Marbella as an investment area, so everyone else that recommended Marbella has gone...................bye bye)...anyway.

Tell my Drakan, what do you know about the process of developing over here in Spain, you tell me about the process, the increases why and where they happen.............................TEACH ME.

I guarantee with 100% accuracy that Spain will show on NEW developments a minimum of 25% returns per annum.
And whats this line about..............how in the hell do you know EVERYONE who has bought an offplan "but since 2003 any person whose bought has actually lost money"..HOW DO YOU KNOW THIS, have you bought them all a beer, or are they the people who you sold too..

OK enough of these tit for tat crap,I appologies for the slur of you being a bad Lawyer, I dont know you....you may be a good one you may be a bad one, but my point is this....you and everyone else that has had a bad experience (because YES they do happen) and all the people that sit and just read the internet...tar every agent with the same brush.
We are the devil ooooohhhhhhh, we scam people.............oohhhhhhhhh whatever, its your money, do with it as you wish, not once have i tried to sell me or my company, I have given MY OPINION.

TAKE IT OR LEAVE IT, but i will say this come back to this post in 2 years once spain has done what it will do.
Your opinion is it will not do much or crash...fine.
My opinion is different......................Paper trade Spain for a while, pick out some costa dela sol developmenst, Santa Clara for example, Tee 6 another......El Soto another ( A nearly Finished development)........and just see what happens.


Good luck and take the opportunities quickly

Allme

so you lost a shed full in of the Spanish costas. Come out of denial get over it and stop posting utter rubish.
In 2 years time hundreds of thousands of properties on the costas will be costing their 'investor' owners a fortune
just for the privilage of them being able to say 'I've got an investment property abroad'. They will (as they allready are) come on to the market in droves.
There are many villas currently being offered at between E300k and E500k that in late 2008/09 will be on for E170k to E270k.
Nothing is going to keep the Spanish market up, against rising I/R as general inflation takes hold. Spain soon becomes a net contributor to
Europe. That why they are going to squeeze absentee overseas owners untill they bail.

This time next year Rodney we'll be millionairs! Plonker!

Pablo Silver or Lead?

OK Plonk chops

I have´nt lost a bean over here in Spain and nor has any of my Investors, and i´d love for you to show me villa at €300,000 it really must be a pile of what you are talking...SHITE...............next year´s cap apprec has been qouted at 15.7%.
And as you cant spell Millionaire......you obvioulsy aint one......and i´m the one suffering Dyslexia


Cheers

Thats the great thing about Forums they're full of dreamers and creamers. I too am highly dyslexic. Having left shool at 16 unable to 'right'. Six of us living in a one bedroom flat, we all have or stories! I've been arround property investment UK/US for 25 years now (as an amature investor) done ok by luck and calling the cycles! Throughout the 80's earnt 15k pa fighting global terrorism befor it came fashionable. Then spent the 90's earning 300k a year in the City. Money? Wealth ? so what!

Allme I have no doubt you're a fake it till you make it dreamer, but hey the worlds full of them so you're in good company. Oh and I bet you learn more in the next 2 years than everything so far to date. Good luck.

Pablo Silver or Lead?

My brother in arms, the six "PPPPPP´s" are how i have lived and still live my life.
I am a dreamer like most, i am not a fake, as i have not tried to sell anything to anyone.....i have just inputted my opinion..
I live in the worst estate in SE London,did´nt go to school and learnt more sitting on a bus than i did in any schooling environment, I have also worked in the city, for one of the worlds largest investment banks...Godman Sachs.
My aim in life now is NOT money but content and happiness for me and my family, but what i dont understand is why Spain gets slagged off, left right and center.
And i´m still waiting for the info on these €300,000 villas!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Yes i have already agreed there are conmen over here..like everywhere.
But i and the company i work for are NOT one of these............i have´nt even told you who i work for or tried to sell anything.
ONLY ONCE AGAIN, GAVE MY OPINION.

Best wishes

Hi Allme

got really busy and never got back to thies post - thanks to the other guys who brought a note of gritty realism back. Even Ireland is faltering now with the interest rate increases. Someone commented on the migrants from africa etc coming in - don't think they'll buy my shoebox for 250K+ though! My only conclusion from YOUR subsequent posts is:

a) You're taking the **** and having some fun (hopefully this is it)

or

You're mentally impaired in some fashion

Well Allme, which is it?

Catemitus rectus


Oh yeah, and you should have spent some time at school - the lack of it is quite apparent I'm afraid.....!

Anyone bought in off plan in Marbella? Watch out for the dog poo. Ohhh, and Trevor McDonut is doing a special report this Friday.

Taking advantage of the foreigner - Drakan, what do you make of this one? Sound plausible? lol - read further down, they were British sellers. Cheeky sods! Probably laughing from their yacht in the Med. Or undoing their MEW.

All this while looking for a story that was on the spanish news last night where a load of Brits had bought properties in a development (think it was couple of thousand units), but nobody had given permission hence no refuse collection, no electricity/gas.

btp

Kitty Cat

The school remark..................cant argue mate 10000% behind that statement......

But be very carefull making remarks about being mentally impaired...very careful


Trevor Mcdognuts now make sure you all watch this programe..............

It will either be good for us, and you´ll all say how much did you pay them, or what a load of crap....blah blah blah

Or they´ll edit it in a bad way and you´ll ALL jump on the badwagon waving your flags etc etc etc..

Either way i dont give a damn............i know what i know and i do what i do.........PERIOD

Enjoy your lives....coz i do

And sorry just in case you did´nt see it €300,000 VILLA WHERE IS IT is it as good as the apartments in Costa Azahar you took soooo long to think about buying, then it went tits and instead of blaming yourself for being stupid and greedy and picking the most ******ing stupid location, you blame everyone else.

I even offered you help selling it for FREE and you still want to argue..............."F"ing idiot, get on with making your stupid mistakes and i´ll get on with making money for myself and my investors...what a dick.

Well you've answered my last question anyway.......

Funny that as you STILL have´nt answered mine, I might be the uneducated one, but you are still full of BULLSHITE

Moving away from the insults and back to the question in hand.

I bought a property in Spain and sold it last year for a hefty profit. It took me just under a month to sell. I have bought somewhere else out there and have no doubt that if you know what your doing then Spain is a great investment.

There are those people who buy in places like Torrevieja or pay exhorbitant prices for apartments on golf courses 30 miles inland but these people exist everywhere in any area of investment and life.

The only people I have ever met who are negative about Spanish property are those who missed the boat and because of the boom can no longer afford to buy there. They are extremely bitter and quite a few start talking up places like Turkey (on the Iraq border dont forget + terrible human rights issues and fluctuating currency). At the end of the day ignore the poor bitter people and go with your instincts.

Spain will always have nice weather, beaches, food etc and is less than 3 hours away from most UK airports. With an ever growing German economy what was once the largest holiday home owning nation in Spain is now back in the picture. What you have to remember is the boom in Spain has took place over the past 5 years purely with UK input. Over the past 5 years the Germans have been selling in their droves and the prices still increased on average 17%a year. Now they are ready to buy again I can only see the market increasing.

Of course I'm sorry to hear about the odd person who hasn't sold in 2 years or the couple who built without checking planning and now lose their home. This happens everywhere its just you dont have a bitter gang of peopel looking to hijack the situation for their own bitter ends.

Also I understand on another note that pressure has been put on programme makers to highlight the negatives of property abroad after concern was raised that more and more over 50's were taking all their money out of the UK and moving it to places like Spain, France and Italy.

The simple reason TV programme makers focus on the negatives of overseas property investment, is that bad news makes for better (i.e. higher audience figures) viewing !.

I am sooo glad I popped in this morning,,,,,,,,2 raise of hope.

But get ready for the backlash, this board does´nt like positive responses.....lol

And you are right, I should get on with doing what i´m doing and not get into slanging matches on here........wastes my time.

Good luck to you

We lived in spain for 3 years . my advice is [ dont do it ] we managed to sell but it touck 18 months ..all our friends have returned or are trying to. .but the market is dead... one friend had there villa on the market for 30 months it started at 340.000 euros .. they slowly reduced when it did not sell ... it was with 5 estate agents they sold in the end for190.000 ..there was just no buyers ...The other thing to remember is that spain is one of the most corupt countries in Europe..........good luck

Where was your property? This is the most important information. Wasn't Torrievieja by any chance was it? Perhaps somehwere on the Costa Blanca?

adibrown - stop asking pointless questions - the fact is, it doesn't really matter where it is, does it? Outrageous oversupply into a rapidly hardening market vacuum with rising interest rates is pulling the whole thing apart. Are you guys for real? Jesus! I know several people who bought in diverse areas of Spain during 2003/2004 and now - can't shift the concrete man!

Wakey wakey! Smell the coffee!

How come you dont post anywhere else Catemite? 11 posts all on this topic. Seems strange. Why the obsession with Spanish property? Your not somebody who got priced out of teh market by any chance are you? I meet loads of people especially older generation who go on about it not lasting etc. They all wanted to move to Spain butwaited just that bit too long.

My commiserations to you. May be you could look at Bulgaria and leave everyone alone to enjoy Spain.



Also why is it a pointless question to ask them where it is?

If somebody came on to the forums and said "I lived in the UK and I really hated it where I was and it is a real nightmare and prices are dropping etc" Do you think we wouldnt be entitled to say where in the Uk where you?

I think you've been drinking something stronger than coffee my boy. may be you should wake up and drink the coffee

HI all .. our house was in la Nucia near Altea..... yes the costa blanca not far from terra mitica golf and them park ...but we had travelld all over spain looking for the the dream , and the more we looked the more disollusioned we became ,,we must have looked at 70 or more from north of Valencia down to murcia . .god knows how many times we was lied to by the estate agents ie.....its just come on the market ......... then you find out its its been on for 3 years .......or no the sea never floods the area ...... then the locals tell you..... in a storm the sea backs up the river and the river floods the area.....and then thers......yes it will be built in 9 months.......then you bump in to others who have been wating 30 months for there home to be started............ it seemed that every place we looked at there was a problem ......... its been said its the stupid brits that buy in the bad parts of spain that gave spain a bad reputation ......is having a dream of a new life and home in any part of spain so stupid??????or is it the the ones who prey on the stupid brits with a dream ....the ones that have cond and twisted the stupid brits .....and now thers no stupid brits left to con they will blam it on ever one else but them selves IE [estate agents.....builders ......developers ] ....thats it full stop.......most brits know this now even the stupid ones.........we all know there is parts of spain where you can still pick a honest deal in a good area but its few and fare between.............i think the whole of spain will suffer in the long term ..... its a shame that the greed and the cons of a few have spoilt the dreams of so many ..............all the best to all on thi site P&S

ho ho ho Father Christmas Catamite here!

I don't post elsewhere because I have several properties in Ireland and two in the UK, bought in the since early nineties, renting well and appreciating more than pleasantly. A friend pursuaded me to throw a couple of hundred grand farther afield in a Spanish development and i thought, what the hell - rent it, maybe use it occasionally (oh, the romance of it all!), probably sell it in '06 when built (bought off-plan in late '03). I just think it's hilarious - the Spanish situation is SO bad that some my other properties bought in a similar timeframe have appreciated by an amount similar to the FULL COST of the Spanish apartment. I can't rent it for hell, so guess I'll just hunker down for 10 years or so until the smoke clears. I have endless fun taking the **** out of my pal, who bought TWO similar Spanish lemons. We both realise now that the overbuilding in Spain was endemic/corrupt in equal measure and we never really had a hope, but see the amusing side and can laugh about it - which is the main thing, right? Either way, I can easily absorb my one mistake and learn from it - but also revel in passing on the reality to you loonies! I love these posts - but only once every couple of weeks!

p.s. my best purchase was a south Dublin 3-bed semi in '95 for 82,500 IRP (~100K euro) - now could sell for >800K euro but the rent is just too sweet, might offload in '07 though because even Ireland is making me a trifle uneasy now. What's your portfolio anyway? Don't tell me it's mostly Spanish - you'll give me a hernia....! Or perhaps a prolapsed rectum! Love your replies though...keep 'em coming

Ho ho ho - also, who cares where it is in Spain, mostly the poo slides en masse, only the algebraic differential varies in this equation (i.e. the dX/dY of the curve - Allme, look up Newton's "Principae" to check that one out - your lack of schooling in early life will precipitate this extra effort now - see, ignorance doesn't pay off in the long term, does it?!)


"mark my words, there'll be many a sad Christmas....."

"mark my words, there'll be many a sad Christmas....."


And there it is.......mark my words......the sign of a true OLDIE......And I still have´nt had answer...................
And i probably wont, what with your old age helping you to forget things............

You bought a shite holw, in a shite hole area and you still hold a grudge, because you screwed up and dont have the balls to say it out loud............come on little boy...............

Ahhhh I see I get it now...of course. You made a bad investment and now you're trying to convince yourself through these posts that it is Spain that is the bad investment not your choice of development/area.

I have to break it to you but I could have given a 3 year old a marker pen in the early nineties and he could have picked properties that would have made huge returns. The real skill comes in areas like Spain, it really is a complex market and some people win some people lose. Unfortunately you are a loser

Kitty Kat

You seem to take great pleasure with the fact that I openly admit that i did´nt go to school, and repeatedly attack this as a form of sacasim, it baffels me really..............but then sooo much baffels me that comes out of the mouth of educated people, I find mostly because of the lack of common sense.....which to be honest is Rife with educated people................amusing very amusing.
So as it seems to please you and because of your real lack of knowledge / education..I´ll shall LET you continue down the one and only road you seem able to go down....But no I actually feel sorry for you, so heres some more info on me so you can come up with maybe some better remarks.............

1) I did´nt go to school......(we know that already)
2) Most of my freinds are either dead or in prison....
3) I have saved more lives than I care to remember...(INCLUDING YOURS, when I was in the military)
4) I have been stabbed and Shot.....(stabbed in the head whilst stoppping two cowards beating up a pregnant lady in London)
5) Lost almost everything whilst living in the UK.......because of some VERY bad decisions
6) I´ve trained in 3 different Martial arts
7) I got heavily into steroids whilst weight training for the Martial Arts
8) Moved to Spain....and earn more money here than I ever could over in the UK....................................
9) I now live a very very good life, so does my Daughter and Wife
10)....OH yeah and I am extremley happy...maiking money for my family and other families

Some come on mate there is some really juicey ones on there, so what have you got.
Becasue frankly you posts are very boring and we do need to spice things up a bit, so you obvioulsy needed the help
Enjoy
Me

Hi all ..... to much slaging off on here for us its just a wast of time...........and to all that a looking to move to spain the best advice that any one could is to rent first ....spain has the best off a lot of things , it allso has the best con men remember this 24/7.... take time over [all ]things you do .....and if it looks to good to be true... it proberbly is .....i have seen a lot about on here about Murcia/almeria ,, sounds nice, fantastic in fact????????? i wonder where all the con men will go now the C Blanca /C Del Sol have gone flat ????????? good luck and good byeeeeeeeeeeeee... never to return to this site

Now look what you have done Kitty Kat..................cant you be nice for one day......lol

See ya Paul / Sally, jeezz another I ******ed up so lets blame everyone else............theres loads on here like that, Herds

Where they already are: in Albania busy selling away completely overpriced properties to poor Brits and Irish alike promising huge capital growth of 40% p.a. har har har.

You could be right on that ....but one things for shure there all over the costa blanca and sol . and the more they hear stories of brits buying in numbers in murcia/almira where do you think they will head . its a open invitation for all, it will just end up the same...................--- smashing my computer now so i cant return to this site.......................---joking byeeeeeeeeee

The Costa Almeria is a very popular resort for people from Madrid. They make sure that crime doesnt come to their area. Add to that the fact that Almeria/Murcia simply dont have the nightclubs and bars that Blanca and Del Sol have and you have an area unattractiveto gangsters. I mean not too many 60 year olds arebuying drugs these days unless I'm missing something.

Blanca and Del Sol were known as party areas of Spain and as such attracted large amounts of young people looking to get off their heads on alcohol and unfortunately drugs. This attracted gangs of criminals. Simple as that. Doesnt exist in Almeria/Murcia. Might be a few criminals knocking around but unlike UK the Guardia Civil in Almeria dont let them off with a fry up and a warning in the morning. These guys get the beating of their lives and wake up on a ferry to Morroco. Spanish justice you've got to admire it

"Methinks the Lady (you, in this case) doth protest too much"

In otherwords, I sense a little defensiveness in your outpourings!

Glad that you're happy though - that's the main thing!

Will you not finally admit that the Spanish property market has it's head screwed firmly up it's own asshole at this stage? As commented elsewhere, even the conmen have left the sinking ship!

Yee-hah!

irredeemable degenerate

NO I wont admit to any untruth.......................WHAT SO EVER.

Not in the slightest, and regarding your "lady" out burst....how the hell did you know......I have´nt told anyone about my weekend adventures

xx

I meant to say Bulgaria, not albania, sorry.

Hi we live in Spain and we are based near Torrevieja. There is a deep recession taking place and property is just not selling. Letting is very difficult as well plus in addition to that taxes are high. One would have to pay 25% tax on 'GROSS' rental income to start with.

It most definately is not a country to invest in. Property sales are down 50%

Racism is on the increase as well.

Take a look at http://www.racistspain.com

regards

Rupert

01-09-2006

I and my partner have lived in Spain for the last 10 years. We noticed the start of a decline in 'resale' property sales some 18 months ago.

Now the situation is very bad. #Reports in local newspapers mention that new property sales are down by upto 50%. We see every day properties that have been on the market for the last 18 months. Many English who originally lived here have now returned to the UK.

The recession is being fuelled by a saturation of new properties. Indeed there is also a saturation of different trades and businesses. As a consequence many businesses are either up for sale or closed down.

We have also experienced a growing trend by the Spanish towards racist remarks and actions.

Take a look at this website which details the latest news reports and EU directives regarding Spain:

http://www.racistspain.com

There are many reasons why Spain is no longer a healthy country to invest your money in.

we are based near Torrevieja.


Ha Ha say no more

You really are screwed

Whatever you do dont judge Spain on Torrevieja

Its quite possibly the worst investment anybody could make, I have to agree with you on that one. I'm surprised you can sell after even a 50% drop in prices. No disrespect but I wouldn't buy there for £100. I remember going to an overseas property exhibition in Hull 3 years ago and they were selling 2 bed villas for £30k. I remember looking to my dad and saying "That is going to be one big council estate in 2-3 years time. Everybody in the expo was selling their right to buy council homes in Hull and "making a new life" in Torrevieja. Of course everybody a year later was told their £30k villa was now worth £100k - hence the 50% drop in prices. The sad thing is many of the estate chavs would have made more keeping their Right to Buys, what they hadnt accounted for is that the Spanish market is much more suceptable to Chav areas. In other words there are 3 types of buyers.

A -Those with £70k and below - These buy in Costa Blanca (torrevieja, benidorm) or areas such as Torremelinos. They are also seen venturing inland for so called "bargains". Ruins that farmers sell for £20k. See Albox. tend to be adventorous doleys or cheap skate second homers.

B -Those with £70k - £180k - These guys are your second homers. They will buy apartments in all of the costas. they are looking either for BTL opportunities or holiday homes. Occasionaly they will venture into A's territory and make a bad investment.

C- Those with £180k+ - These are your retirees or rich second homers. They are looking for villas and townhouses in exclusive areas where you may find the odd B but will certainly never have to mix with A's.

Now as far as I can see the A's are keeping even or making slight losses. The B's are breaking even and making slight gains although the BTL opportunity isnt as good as they would have liked. The C's are making good gains.

The market is made up of those that buy in Spain because its cheap (These are price driven and put off by HPI in Spain, hence lowering demand) and those that are willing to pay a bit more and look around for somewhere nice and exclusive - They are not price driven and as a result buy in areas where when it comes to reselling are not affected by the fact that prices have increased because their area attracts others that are not price driven.



Letting is very difficult as well plus in addition to that taxes are high. One would have to pay 25% tax on 'GROSS' rental income to start with.

This statement is absolute rubbish. ignore it. Spain issued a Non residents tax and scrapped taxes on rental incomes a few years back. The tax equates to 0.25% of your esceturia value. On a £120k villa it equates to about £300 a year.

We have lived in Spain for the last 10 years.

it most definately is not a healthy country to invest your money in.

Property is not selling ,estate agents are going out of business weekly, bars and cafes are closing down. there is no money around.

Take a look at http://racistspain.com

This website gives a clear picture of the situation in Spain.

Regards

Rupert

Hi Rupert Bear,

P&S here. Ex La Nucia, near Altea on the Costa Blanca. Back in the U.K. now. Detected the crash and got out 18 months ago. As Adi has pointed out, Torrevieja is probably the worst hit but believe me, the whole of the Costa Blanca has taken a plunge. If you want to see more of Adi's opinions and sometimes ravings, under property investment, click on number 6 (Game Over in Spain). Probably best to go to the last page and work back. Good luck guys, but it's beginning to look very clear that the whole of Spain will probably suffer big time although many are trying to prop it up. As you will see, Adi is not really such a bad person, just loves Spain and will go to any extremes to defend it and probably just does not realise that this time it really is 'Game Over in Spain'.

P&S

Your talking about the suma tax. I can assure you that the tax on the Gross letting value is 25% the tax you mention is suma. This year the local town halls employed staff to check out all holiday letting advertised in newspapers, internet etc. There are strict guide lines to letting. We work within the legal field inSpain and if you take a look at my website www.racistspain.com you will find links to lawyers who will confirm all levels of taxation in Spain. Non residents tax is very very much in force thankyou , The idiots have just taken a non residents tax directly form my bank account in Spain.

Take a look at the website and click on the lawyer links and you will see all the different tax levels. Certianly they confirm that Spain is most definately not a place to wisely invest money in.

We ourselves would love to see the bubble burst with the result of high unemployment, closed businesses and a destruction of the Spanish system. Fortunately we sold our properties in spain 18 months ago before the real onset of these problems. However we remain in Spain temporarily because the Spanish owe us a great deal of money which we intend to get back at any cost. Hints to this are on the website.

regards
Rupert



We quite agree. We were lucky to sell a house in Spain some 18 months ago. It was inland about 1 hour from alicante and only took one week to sell. However we have friends all over the Costa Blanca from Denia to Torrevieja and there is a major problem all along the coast with people trying to sell their properties. Spain has become very expensive, those on a fixed income from the UK will be finding it much harder to make ends meet.

We have experienced a trend from several Spanish people towards racism against not only the English but other nationalities as well.

Many cafes and bars have closed down and many more are up for sale. Today we took a walk around the residential end of Torrevieja. Next week we will take photos which we will upload onto this forum and a website to show people how depressed the area is together with the fact that there is graffiti everywhere and run down apartments and boarded up shops.

The Spanish have brought htis upon themselves by over saturation of property building, Land Grab laws, Illegal Buildings, Corruption, Racism within the police, Violent Crime ...the list goes on.

Take a look at http://racistspain.com

This website details the latest newspaper reports plus much more

regards
Rupert