Hi all,

not sure if anyone else is keeping an eye on Fife (except myself of course!).

In any case, i have stats etc. going back to January 2007 if anyone want's them.

Currently, rightmove have >1200 properties listed - which is about the peak from the whole of 2007. So it looks promising on the supply side. ESPC counts are looking to be slightly ahead of last year, but not by as much as I'd expect. By April we should know a lot more.

Have also started collecting propertybee stats from 29th Jan 2008 - which i believe can be loaded into anyones PC.

Some recent pricedrops to note:

http://www.espc.com/Buying/236417.html has dropped from fixed 240k to 219k fixed.

This one in Dalgety BAy http://www.espc.com/Buying/244516.html has INCREASED in price by 20K in January 08 after having been on the market since July 07!!!

I'll try and keep the thread up to date with any further increases(!?) drops on the properties in Fife, as well as being able to supply the propertybee CSVs to anyone that wants them. (I'll go through EVERYTHING in Fife around once a week)

Anyone else out there looking at Fife?

Here's another: http://www.rightmove.co.uk/viewdetails-191...=1&tr_t=buy A wonderful modernist house originally marketed late last year at an optimistic o/o £1,000,000 , now a bargain at o/o £875,000. Still a lot of dough for a three bedroom house, however beautiful it is.

Difficult one to value I guess, but surely it cannot be worth more than £600,000 ?

I've been watching over the whole of scotland on ESPC and tracking the % of fixed price. This time last year 26% of listings were fixed price, compared with the current figure of 34% . A possible indication of slowdown, given that fixed price typically comes as a last resort after offers over marketing has failed.

Hi SE, thanks for taking the time. That Cupar house sure does still look expensive. Amazing considering something like this House in Cupar is close by, has a paddock and is 300k cheaper!

I recently moved back to Scotland after a few years of travelling, and don't understand who can afford to buy anything! Ex-council houses go for around 100k around Dunfermline - it's unbelievable. Having seen the prices, i decided to rent - and am renting a big 5 bed house for 1k/month. The interest on my money in the bank covers 3/4 of that, so the real cost to live here is ~250/month. To buy it, i would use up all my money, and still need a 200k mortgage! So i'd be 1000/month worse off by buying it.

On another note, I used to think the ESPC was always 1st choice for looking for houses in Fife, but since I started collecting the stats, Rightmove are WAY ahead. Admittedly, they do include new builds which ESPC don't seem to.

Currently for Fife, Rightmove have over 1200 properties, whilst the ESPC are ~470.

Cheers for now,

F

Also in Fife, looking to buy again at some point. Need to find another rental property this summer.

Presently 5 bed, 3000 sqft, £875 per month.

Hi S2R,

you're looking at >50% drops to make buying cheaper than renting with those figures! Thats how crazy things have got.

I have plenty of priced out friends, kicking themselves that they didn't buy 5-10 years ago. It's pretty dire for them, i do try and cheer them up by spouting the HPC mantra, and believe it's only a matter of time.

Latest drop 21 Bridges View-Dunfermline originally (10/07) on at offers over 245k, moved to fixed 265k, now it can be yours for 249k or less!

I sold on the same development in 2006. Had to reduce the price and fix it to sell. Didn't even get viewings until it was reduced.

Went to look at a house yesterday. New build, previous sale apparently fell through, and IIRC it was built at least 2 years ago. The price has been dropped by about 25%, hence our interest. We like the house and considered making a cheeky offer of about 10% below that.

However, even if that was accepted I think it would be financial suicide.

Adding up the difference in price in renting a similar property (lost interest from sell to rent fund and also paying out a mortgage, buildings insurance, repairs), and then applying a quarterly drop of 1.6% to the price, it would mean that I would be working simply to support the difference in price between owning and renting!

Then do you buy yet? Do you ****.

Fife prices are hilarious. Even the Edinburgh commutable areas. The 'in the sticks' stuff around 'Coaltown of Councilscheme' etc. is dutch flower craze type overpriced.

I sent this to the agent, who will probably laugh:

Thanks for arranging the viewing of .....

We like the property and have considered putting in an offer. We have already sold our house and are presently renting. Based on the asking price, we have a 67% deposit available, and the required mortgage would be less than 1.4 times our joint income. Our moving date is at present totally flexible. We also note that the property has already been reduced in price.

Despite the above favourable factors, we feel that the offer we would make in the current economic situation would be too far away from the asking price to be acceptable to the seller.

If the most recent 1.6% quarterly drop in Scottish prices were to continue, then taking into account rental costs on similar value properties, and setting that against lost interest on our deposit if we were to buy, as well as mortgage interest, maintenance and buildings insurance, we would be approx £x000 a month worse off by buying this house at the asking price than we would be renting something comparable.

I wish you the best in selling this property. If for some reason it continues not to sell and there are further price developments I would be happy to reconsider our position based on a further assessment of the rental market and changes in the price of housing in the wider market.

Sock it to them s2r!

I've been wavering a bit recently, some great mortgage deals available with first direct. I prefer to go down the flexible offset route, and they are offering either a 4.75% fix for 2 years, or a 5.15% fix for 10 years! The 10 year deal almost sounds too good to be true on an offset.

In any case - i've found my biggest drop so far:

http://www.rightmove.co.uk/viewdetails-165...=6&tr_t=buy

It's been dropped by 50k today!!!

Fife inventory is currently looking great with ESPC totals of 533 (almost up to last years max!) and Rightmove at 1340 (higher than at any time last year).

http://www.rightmove.co.uk/viewdetails-165...=6&tr_t=buy

I almost spat coffee on the keyboard when I saw that price. Average wage in that place the whatever a Giro is these days. It's not really Edinburgh commutable either. For that money, you could purchase a slightly smaller house on the southern Edinburgh outskirts anyways.

Dream, dream on. That will be a 240k house in a years time. Or maybe even less.

The house itself has a certain appeal, but the location is woeful.

I'd be very worried about being burglarized or violated in some other unimaginably horrible fashion by crack heads.

Indeed, i had a thread sometime last year discussing the ludicrous effects of HPI, where the non-desirable locations end up costing just as much as the desirable ones. There are plenty of crappy places in Fife, where you wouldn't want to live, but most of these places now have new build 'schemes' and their prices are the same as the better/safer places. That in turn feeds it's way down to even the council estates where a 3 bed ex-LA semi is ~100k in all the Fife towns just now.

If we have a serious downturn in the economy, crime will go through the roof in these areas - and you'll see the prices in all these villages/towns be reduced to more realistic prices. >50% drops...

Another Repo just on the market in Duloch today.

http://www.rightmove.co.uk/viewdetails-100...=1&tr_t=buy

I went to see 3 Caithness Drive (just round the corner) a few months back. It was on at OO 270k (Sold for 303k in 2004)

Here are the details Click to view attachment

It needed some work doing on it, but it was HUGE - tiny garden though, and located right on the 'main' road. We offfered 250k as it was a repo - and the previous sale fell through.

This new one looks like they've ripped the carpets up as well.

I wonder if some of these houses were bought on lie to buy mortgages? I could never figure out how they could sell so many of them over 250k back in 2004/2005. I mean where were the people getting the money from? I doubt there's many folk that can service that big a debt for long - especially if their fixed rates are coming to an end. Am expecting these sorts of houses to fall back to around their original 2004 prices - maybe even a bit less. The few that manage to sell this/last year have been VERY lucky.

There are quite a lot for sale in that particular development. (All over 300k - for now!)

Love the fact they are still trying to sell these. My wife and I looked at Sovereign last August, and I thought they were wildly overpriced in the market as it was then. Not a hope now unless they reduce the price. Which they haven't. So it looks like stalemate.

http://www.rightmove.co.uk/buy/clackmannanshire/dollar

If they get real, I'd buy. Otherwise, good luck to them. They'll need it.

Did you see that 2 bed flat for 615k? Is that a misprint?

If i had that sort of money to spend, i'd almost certainly be building my own place. Plots are hard to find, but they do come up - and there are always steadings around.

Incredibly, not a misprint. Thats the price.

The sales lady wondered why I laughed my head off when she told me the prices. They're asking London prices, and high end London prices at that, for frickin' Dollar

On the houses, they dont even turf the back yard. Even if you drop a million plus on the biggest one. Oh right, thats value for money indeed.

Having. A. Laugh.

OK, the figures are coming on nicely - ESPC has 6941 properties listed which is ~3% higher than the June peak last year, and 13% higher than this time last year.

Fife is coming on much better with 615 listings on ESPC and 1451 on Rightmove. Thats a 46% increase on numbers from this time last year!!! With the coming mortgage resets throughout this year, and the resulting hike in peoples payments, i'd expect to see a lot more houses coming onto the market this year. The forced sellers will start to grind the prices down, and i'd expect the ROS figures to be YOY negative for the oct-dec quarter.

Was speaking to a local estate agent, and he was telling me that they usually had a peak of around 100 properties in the year, but they currently have around 140. He still thought that prices would only drop ~5% though. I did manage to keep my thoughts to myself on that one!

Hi Fishy

Is it possible to send me the Dunfermline and Kirkcaldy Property Bee Stats?

How many fixed prices are there in Dunfermline right now!

I've zipped the files, but they are over 1Mb (max upload is 250k). Do you have an email address for me to send them to? Am not on the PM system (never worked out how to!) If not, if you have a site i can upload them to, i'll do that.

Note this is for all of fife, but if you limit your search just to Dunfermline then thats all you'll get. I do a full search every week, and a general search from around 150-250k every day or so.

Things are looking pretty good in general, new houses on the market are coming on at lower prices - and only the best seem to be selling. There's a long way to go, but i think we'll be seeing the estate agents hurting pretty soon - and forcing the prices down. We are over 50% above the levels on the market from the same time last year.

OK, things are really starting to happen now.

This property in Saline was previously on for fixed 295k. It's just been reduced down to offers over 245k! Yup thats a 50k drop since the start of the year!!!

Also, this house in Kelty has just been reduced from fixed 255k down to offers over 210k!

These are almost 20% drops. If this continues maybe i'll buy before the end of the year... NOT!

OK - another HUGE drop (in price at least not so much in % terms) in Kirkcaldy.

Craigfoot walk - originally on for 679k was dropped down to 649k, is now on with ESPC at Fixed 565k!

Yes thats right, a stunning 114k drop or 16%.

ok, i know i shouldn't have, but i did - i made an offer for a house today...

25% below the 2006 sold price, and 10% below the 2003 original price (new build). It ticks all our boxes - except on price. To my amazement, when speaking to the estate agent, they semi accepted my position and are going to try and get the owner to come down that far. I won't go any higher though, so it's doubtfull we will get it.

You never know, if it's on the market for another 6 months - then they might change their tune!

Well, am still here!

Just noticed a nice drop on a property in Kinross - for anyone that is interested in a 'relative bargain'.

This house in Kinross has been reduced from 395k to 295k!

25% off! Not too shabby for the start of the crash...

See the place in Girotown, sorry Kelty, is still up for sale. Surprise surprise.

http://www.espc.com/Buying/246106.html

It's starting to become proper stalemate now in a lot of Fife. I talked to an (ex) estate agent about the place a few weeks ago, and he was in the game during the last crash. In his words, the keys will be getting handed back on a lot of places before long, and that was before the recent Nationwide figures showing the massive falls. It's cuckoo land money with no fundamentals backing any of it up. Some of these places have, if you count the number of bad back sufferers claiming Invalidity, 40% unemployment. The rest are working for 22k PA.

Lot of people going to get their asses burnt. Unlucky.

Some real life drops.....

5 Mallard Grove in Dunfermline - FP £155k

http://www.rightmove.co.uk/viewdetails-104...=1&tr_t=buy

23 Mallard Grove in Dunfermline - FP £153k

http://www.rightmove.co.uk/viewdetails-181...=1&tr_t=buy

Actual sold prices from that street:

http://www.nethouseprices.com/index.php?co...gToSearch=68640

Nos 21 and 3 are the other half of the semi......both sold for £163k in November and February.
I don't know when the garage conversion was done....

So, 8k and 10k drops compared to next door, and they haven't sold yet.

Superb!

I hear that the developer at Balirhall has given the builders 4 weeks notice. I also heard rumours of discounts of up to £50k being negotiated by buyers, but I have nothing substantial.

Anyone else heard anything?

Not heard anything about Blairhall CA, i did notice some of the new houses in DEX have had some considerable drops. There was a 50k advertised drop from Redrow on rightmove (via proertybee) but it seems to have gone now.

The numbers for fife via espc/rightmove have stabilised around the 900 mark ~80% up on last years peak. This marks the same seasonal trend as last year, my guess being less coming onto the market in the run up to the school/summer holidays.

How will the market hold over the summer? Thats anyones guess, but those that are desparate to sell must be pretty frustrated now.

I've had the feeling for a while now that most folk are 'running on empty' what with food/gas/petrol inflation, and i expect to see a significant number of properties for auction in the last quarter of the year. (If not auction, then reposessions on via EAs) The full effects of the credit crunch should be apparent by then - with an ever increasing number of people forced onto SVRs - with no hope of getting a cheap remortgage.

November stats should be very interesting... although i'm banking on all the stats being YoY negative by September at the latest.

Still been watching this one:-

http://www.rightmove.co.uk/viewdetails-106...=1&tr_t=buy

Was o/o £1,000,000 , then o/o £875k, now o/o £750k.

http://www.rightmove.co.uk/viewdetails-207...=1&tr_t=buy

This is about £25k less than all the similar 4 bed houses that are for sale in the Eastern extension in Dunfermline.

Obviously someone wants to sell and is willing to be aggressive.

Everyone else with a similar 4 bed place nearby will get a shock when they see it.

http://www.rightmove.co.uk/viewdetails-104...=1&tr_t=buy

Was £155k when I posted the link on June 17th.
That's a 6.8% drop.
Yeeha!
Bet their neighbour down the street who is still trying to sell for £153k hates them!

OK, here's another 1...

Fergusson road Down from 195k to 169k. 4 double bed detached with double garage and large lounge/diner. Usual small garden for DEX, but we are seeing those lower barriers being broken for these 4 bed detached.... in fact a quck check, and i can't see any other 4 double beds with double garage for under 200k in Dunfermline.

They really are starting to tumble in price, and the ones we have mentioned have still not sold!

The one that is now £144,500 is 11.3% less than its next door neighbour completed for in February.

I have however started to notice a slight drop off in volume on Rightmove for Dunfermline, but a significant increase in property available for rent.

OK, here we have our 1st straight 25% drop!!!

Halbeath road - Dunfermline down from 225k to 169k!

I know this house was on the market for a while at just over the 200k mark last year, but it didn't sell - then was rented out. Looks like they are either coming to their senses and want rid of it, or are about to get reposessed!

In any case, lets all have a cheer for our 1st 25% drop!

From PB


06 August 2008

* Price changed: from '£225,000 (Fixed Price)' to 'Offers Over £169,000'

17 July 2008

* Price changed: from 'Offers in Region of £230,000' to '£225,000 (Fixed Price)' [Found by fishy1]

30 June 2008

* Price changed: from 'Offers Over £199,000' to 'Offers in Region of £230,000' [Found by mightymoose1972]

03 June 2008

* Initial entry found.

OK, the real fun is starting now...

The house builders are starting to slash their prices - looks like most have at least 10% off across the board. I particularly like this one from PB

Stirling at Duloch Grange KY11 8HD £269,000

History
date event
13 August 2008
* Price changed: from '£299,000' to '£269,000'
31 July 2008
* Status changed: from 'New home, Offer' to 'New home'
18 July 2008
* Status changed: from 'New home' to 'New home, Offer'
25 March 2008
* Price changed: from '£321,000' to '£299,000' [Found by jennyb]
29 January 2008
* Initial entry found.

Thats a drop from £321k down to £269k!!!

Now, this should price these new builds considerably cheaper than similar sized '2nd hand' new builds currently on the market (and there are a lot).

Who is going to buy a 2nd hand 1 when you can get a new 1 for less?

This is a Bryant (Taylor Wimpey ) development.

They have also dropped prices at their Glenrothes site:-

http://www.rightmove.co.uk/viewdetails-198...=1&tr_t=buy £222k to £195k

http://www.rightmove.co.uk/viewdetails-198...=1&tr_t=buy £208k to £192k

http://www.rightmove.co.uk/viewdetails-198...=1&tr_t=buy £205k to £189k

http://www.rightmove.co.uk/viewdetails-198...=2&tr_t=buy £189k to £175k

I'm sure the other Taylor Wimpey group companies will be dropping prices in due course.

I finally got round to loading up Property Bee and it makes amazing reading. For the sort of houses I will be in the market for there are plenty of £10k drops and some closer to £20k already. So, 85 - 15% drops in asking price since April, and they are still not selling.
Not much further to go and they will be within my target of 3X salary plus deposit.
It's also great that my deposit is becoming a higher and higher percentage without adding extra funds, I should be well placed when it comes to getting a mortgage.

Wimpey are building quality homes in Kirkcaldy, or so they would like you to believe!!!!!

We bought a George Wimpey home in Kirkcaldy last november

On 21st July this was £144,500 Fixed.

Now dropped to £140k Fixed.

So that's effectively £23k less than their next door neighbour achieved back in February, IF they can sell at this price!

14% drop in 7 months.

But still £47.5k higher than when sold new in August 2002.
And next door sold in Sep 2005 for £130k, so still a long way to drop to get back to normality.
This still represents more than 6X the average wage for the area and more than 4X the average household income.

Still, it's another £4.5k closer to my 3X salary plus deposit.

New record as far as %age goes in the price bracket I have been tracking:

http://www.rightmove.co.uk/viewdetails-100...p;mam_disp=true

Came on 18/02/08 at o/o £149,950, changed to fixed £162,500 on 29/03/08 and has dropped and dropped till 19/09/08 when it reached its current price of:

£135,000 fixed

I make that 16.9% drop so far in asking price in 7 months.

More big drops.......

http://www.rightmove.co.uk/viewdetails-200...p;mam_disp=true

£55,050 drop since March (25.6%) makes me think that I might go for 4 bedrooms when I jump into the market, rather than the 3 I thought I could afford.

http://www.rightmove.co.uk/viewdetails-203...p;mam_disp=true

£30k off since March (16.7%) and still not sold......

Asking prices of flats have been first to fall in Fife:
http://www.home.co.uk/guides/asking_prices...=fife&all=1

the rest will follow

This ones funny:

http://www.home.co.uk/search/price_info.ht...perty=270444385

looks like a 10K price reduction to me!

Bother is that the change from Offers Over to Fixed Price makes it look like asking prices are rising. In reality, most sellers would have been expecting a 10-15% premium over the o/o price last October, so a 2% rise in detached asking prices really reprsents something like a 10% drop in sellers expectations, and that is before you offer below the fixed! Now that so many prices are fixed I would expect to see the asking prices slipping quite dramatically.

I havent noticed much in the way of significant decreases in West Fife yet apart from hearing some anecdotal evidence from someone at work about deals on new build properties. I would have thought this area would suffer pretty badly due to the banking sector problems effecting Edinburgh and Dunfermline and the unemployment that could come from it. There's also been a very large number of new properties built in Dunfermline. Surely the area's in for a large correction.

Same here.