Opened the Swansea Property Post today and was amazed to see page after page of EA adverts will red or blue triangular signs all over them:

NEW
NEW PRICE
NO CHAIN
FIRST TIME BUY
REDUCED
OFFERS INVITED
5%DEPOSIT PAID

IMPO, the prices are still way above what the majority of the houses are worth and I would need to see at least 30% falls before i even thought about buying.

Yep - we need everyone to latch onto 30%.

Yeah, 30% of, not off.

no,lower,lower

Missing keywords:

DOES'NT USUALLY FLOOD
BIJOU
LESS IS MORE
DSS WELCOME
PLEASE, GOD!

[quote name='The Masked Tulip' date='Jan 17 2008, 04:44 AM' post='929184']
Opened the Swansea Property Post today and was amazed to see page after page of EA adverts will red or blue triangular signs all over them:

NEW
NEW PRICE
NO CHAIN
FIRST TIME BUY
REDUCED
OFFERS INVITED
5%DEPOSIT PAID

IMPO, the prices are still way above what the majority of the houses are worth and I would need to see at least 30% falls before i even thought about buying.
But those semis in the Mayals are still adamantly refusing to head below 250k when 150k would still be too much. All those vankers in Mumbles still thinking their 2 bedroom, mid terraced fishermens' cottages are not worth a penny less than 220k.....are they high on lava bread??
I've even recently seen one of those holiday chalets(8 months jobs) in Caswell Bay sold (STC) for 79k. Just unbelievable, when 7 years ago you could by a proper 3 bedroom semi in Bishopston for 95K.
Take a look at Wrongmove (I'm sure you do) for S'x , it's entirely saturated with flats for sale in the Marina. A few years down the road and Townhill will be upmarket in comparison . I just despair.
If it wasn't for the Gower you could do the world a favour by levelling all of Swansea and turning it into a theme park. ( Nice to see you back MT)

Fair play, that's funny. I'd add Bridgend to the list of potential theme parks (actually perhaps a zoo would be more appropriate).

http://www.newswales.co.uk/index.php?secti...=1&id=12437

Sonce 2001, house prices are up 110%, incomes 10% - so it would take a 40-50% fall to get back to trend. That would put a 3 bed semi in an average area at around £80-90k, which seems reasonable.

Flats in SA1 are another matter entirely, the asking prices are hilarious (400k for a flat in Swansea!). A look on mouseprice shows that people have been buying places in the maritime quater for £300k.. if thet's BTL then they may get a little singed.

was it dylan thomas who referred to swansea as
'the graveyard of ambition'?

Yep.

Also "Pretty Shitty City"

I thought the problem with Swansea new builds was that they Havant got any water in their loos

Yep, there is a whole host of property in Swansea West that is refusing to come down in price - from Sketty to Pennard and all in between. It will though in time. The prices are just ludicrous and I think you are right that 3 bedroom semis, not just in Bishopton but throughout Swansea West, need to get back to long-term averages so about 90K would be right - and I think they will.

Oddly enough only yesterday I was chatting with a friend about the fishermen's cottages in Mumbles - tiny, narrow roads, no where to park, no sound-proofing, dark but because it is in "the village" people pay 220K plus for them. 45K - OK, I could understand that and that is what they were going for circa 2000.

I personally would not go near SA1 with a barge-pole. IMPO it will go downhill rapidly. They are building so many over there. An eldrly relative of mine was thinking of selling up in Mumbles and buying a flat there but an EA advised her against doing so - he said flats were being bought up by young Swansea men who wanted to be near Wind Street. IMPO I doubt that SA1 will ever be completed if this credit cruncn continues. Anyone else noticed how work on that big tower in the marina has mysteriously stopped in recent weeks? Can't see a sign of any work on it.

The problem is,as others have said before, that prices have been so inflated for so long that we are in serious danger of now perceiving them as the norm and no longer some heavily distorted but transient version of reality.
I do take heart from the fact that in 2000 I was living in one of those semis in Bishopston when the (then )wife said, and I clearly remember it : "Oh, in the last boom these houses were selling for 160,000k." Boom or no boom , thereafter they dropped back down to the 90,000k mark.
A lot of people in the grand old principality will be requesting an increase in their medication I fear! (I want to use hope, but that would be insensitive of me)..

A lot of people in the grand old principality will be requesting an increase in their medication I fear'

at least they won't have to pay prescription charges

I think denial is still a big issue with most in Swansea. A friend of mine who, up until Christmas, adamantly stated that house prices would never go down in Swansea, and ridiculed me for thinking so, only told me yesterday that he thinks they will go down now for at least 2 years, perhaps 4!

I think a lot of people are going to get a shock when they come to remortgage.

I know someone who sold their house back in September. The buyer got a mortgage for 100% of the asking price and then NR happened. Within 4 weeks of NR kicking off the mortgage company had withdrawn the offer, had revalued the house by 20K less and then offered the buyers 20K less again re the mortgage.

This meant that the couple buying the house went in 4 weeks from having a 100% mortgage to having to find 40K.

What stagger me is that the builds on Addis, SA1 and surrounding areas have no transport, amenities or social space for the dwellers. Swansea was almost grid locked on Tuesday of this week. Dreadful situation. Good to hear that the high street is getting developed via compulsory purchase.

Why is there not a tram link up the Swansea Valley?
Why is the river not used as a transport route?
Why is there not a train or bus station in Llansamlet trading estate (Behind morrison's maybe?)

Why did the Council build a 25,000 seat stadium with no car park? A mate of mine who watches the Swans has to drive OUT of Swansea several miles to get a bus to the stadium!

Yes, the City is almost grid-locked. I shop increasingly in small centres like Killay and even Mumbles is preferable to trying to get to Sainsburys. In fact, it is easier to drive to Llanelli and Trostre Park than to go into Swansea's dirty, flithy centre.

Thing is 7 years ago is 7 years ago, property generally increases in value (or at least the land below it does) boom or no boom.

Your £95k semi in Bishopston back in 2001 would be around the £125k mark now had we simply just followed the annual inflation route of 2% above general inflation which on average would of meant annual HPI of 4%.
By 2011 when I see the bottom of the market of appearing that same property following normal growth would be valued at around £140k, yes unfortunately most things in life do increase annually with inflation and property for the most part is one of those things.

There are external factors that affect prices such as IR levels , ease of credit and employment but for a good average most economists say healthy growth is 2% above inflation.

Now I don't know the price of these semis in Bishopston today, but you may be looking at around £140k in 2011 with a much higher IR and larger deposit required eating into any other savings that you may have, then again we may get higher / lower wage inflation and the figures need to be adjusted accordingly......last year has seen average wage inflation of 3.5%.

300 - 400K in Bishopton for a semi methinks. Some are late 200s but usually they are freehold.

Nice BTL in Swansea:



http://www.homesonview.co.uk/Scripts/ShowP...amp;ID=DSP01879

And another one - seems saying how much rent you get weekly is now the norm.

http://www.homesonview.co.uk/Scripts/ShowP...amp;ID=DSP01883

Just done a quick rightmove search and semi's in the area seem to be around the £200k-£250k mark up from around £110k 7-8 years earlier.
Don't know where your looking at £300k-£400k semi's, but I got these prices from the Eastland park area.

Got mine for various Swansea EA sites. Never heard of Eastland Park?

http://www.rightmove.co.uk/viewdetails-152...=3&tr_t=buy

http://www.rightmove.co.uk/viewdetails-159...=3&tr_t=buy

For £300-£400k your looking at something like this

http://www.rightmove.co.uk/viewdetails-654...=2&tr_t=buy

or this

http://www.rightmove.co.uk/viewdetails-144...=3&tr_t=buy

Ah right, so that is Eastlands Park. Never knew it was called that. Don't like them personally and don't think they are worth circa 250K but then what is in Swansea.

Can understand them being worth 110K but, 7 or 8 years ago, I would have looked at one and thought "110K - for that!".

Thankfully, Swansea has thousands of jobs with Microsoft, Cisco and NASA so Swansea prices will defy any property crash! House prices can only ever go up in Swansea!

(Sorry been away).

You're correct; those semis in Eastlands Park were, in 2000 selling for 95k and I think there are a couple for sale there now in the 250k region. There are also a few detached in that cul de sac , which in 2000 , were selling for 160k and now we are talking 300k plus (which planet??). I know, because that is precisely where I used to live in the bad old days and I still keep tabs on it .

I accept that 7 years is a long time and we must factor in inflation but it would still be interesting, if it were possible, to take the average wage of residents in Eastlands in 2000 and compare to the property values and then compare with the average wage now against the inflated property prices. We all know what the results would show.

How the average Joe continues to be unremittingly and thorougly rogered by a broken system. Thank you Mr. Greenspan ..... the man should be h/d/and quartered!

I know many people in Bishopston. Some are high earners but the majority are whitevan and mainly public servants - teachers, nurses, council workers, DVLA, etc.

Every house advertised makes a big thing of being in the Bishopston school catchment area. I personally think the newer hosues are cramped together and anything older than 15 years is really showing its age down there. They would nice on a sunny day when you are driving past but when you stop and take a good look many houses appear to need a lot of work.

B'ston is a good spot- gateway to the Gower and all that. Some nice village pubs, good school(apparently) and walking distance to some local beaches like Pwll Du.
But major minus is the attitude of many newcomers who think they have become part of the cultural and intellectual cognoscenti once they've made the transition from east Swansea to Gower. The insidious class system is not the sole preserve of the English and in many ways the Welsh are bigger snobs and bigots (and I'm Welsh). Someone earlier made comment about Dylan Thomas ; he'd have had a field day with the wannabe's of Bishopston.

I think you will find the reason there is no building activity on the tower project is for a health and safety check. A workman fell to his death from the 6th floor a week ago.

I posted my post BEFORE the tragedy of that chap falling from there. Very sad.

I have now lived in the Marina for approx 5 years and when I first arrived a 2 bed apartment (we don't call them flats here in the marina!!) was selling for about £175K. They are now fetching about £160-£165 and will come down. We have suffered from an administration that artificially inflating the value of homes, and used that false value as collateral for a ten-year debt binge
which they offer as prudent stewardship of the economy.

I would say about 40% of the marina is currently used as letting facility for the set up staff of various companies coming in to Swansea, the void periods seem to be huge and lots of the buy-to-let investors are currently trying to off load their portfolio's, so much so that that the local EA does not put for sale signs in the windows of properties as it would down grade the general sales potential of the area. Those who do live in the older part of the marina are also trying to sell so they can upgrade to the new SA1 development. The only people who still want to live here are the Housing Association tenants who pay a peppercorn rent.
The whole area is becoming shabby and I don't think the new tower project will uplift the area.
A friend of mine has bought 2 apartments in the smaller 9 story part of the tower development and now wishes he had'nt, the increase in value he expected is just not happening. Do not buy in the marina.

And only 2 years before you arrived you could have bought a 2 bed for < 100k. From the start, pubs and clubs were seen as part or the marina "experience". Constant stories followed of clubbers getting pissed , falling into the marina and drowning. Very upmarket.

Innocents from across the Bridge who bought into the idea of a second home on the waterfront, with the boat moored outside the door and restful weekends away from the R Race got a rude awakening when finally exposed to the true philistine core of the Swansea soul !
Poor quality build and direct sea exposure meant they would quickly deteriorate and become an eyesore ; whether the development of Wind St. has deflected the yobs away from Marina Clubland I confess I don't know. What I do know, for sure , is that when you have a 3 bed, terraced house in St. Thomas on for 150K you have either a psychotically deluded vendor, or an asset bubble of unbelievable proportions.
How many people can the MOT employ? As far as I know there's nothing else there to pay the bills and what's the point of living in S'x and working an hour away in Cardiff (as many do) when you could work in London and (say) live in Maidstone and get a London wage?
But it's a strange city. In Sept. I was talking to a builder in Langland Bay who was doing an extension on a lovely 900K house..... a second home for someone working in the City ! Now don't ask me why some idiot with 900k in spare cash would buy a place in Swansea.

I would say that Swansea has got loads going for it, It is a lovely place to live and the people here are the most genuine people you can meet. Wales is very rich in resources and I value the fact that we get written off by so many pundits (Clarkson, A Robinson etc). Those with intellect and culture realise just what South, Mid and North Wales has to offer. Thats why thousands flock here in the summer to spend their hard earned Midlands/London money. My only fear for Swansea is the incessant ramping by the EA's to profiteer. FTB's are really hard pushed and the thought of living in one of those 'apartments' with no amenities or community puts shivers down my spine. Swansea's downfall is its infrastructure. Without core transport planning the West of Swansea is doomed to become grid locked all year round and not just in summer. BRING BACK THE TRAMS!!!

You are both right. On a Summer's day the Gower is unbeatable and you have Brecon and Pembs all within an hours drive. However, you also have a huge chav culture in Swansea which is a thuggish, insular, poorly educated mentality that often reminds me of an animal pack. The City is filthy and even the 'nice' Swansea West is looking run-down and is about to become 24/7 grid-locked.

No, I am thinking seriously of leaving now. I can only see Swansea going downhill in any recession. We have had 10 years of boom and Swansea is only now, only just, begining to show signs of that boom. When the recession comes Swansea is going to be screwed.

I was walking around Swansea West today. The houses look lovely when you drive by but when you stop and look an awful lot of properties from West of Sketty Lane look pretty knackered and in need of expensive upgrading. When you look at the stupid asking prices for them already the house prices in Swansea are simply unsustainable.

By chance, I was just looking on Rightmove and was amazed to see so many Marina flats for sale on there.

The Gower is indisputably one of the most beautiful areas of Britain, but you have to go through the Gates of Hell to get there .
I still have an affection for Swansea, having lived there off and on for 10 years, but I'm afraid it's Tulip's version of reality that is increasingly accurate i.e. nasty, brutish and breathtakingly insular. (I had a car that was stolen 4 times in a year would you believe).

Rootless peripatetic though I am, I still know it's the people that make a place and they can erect as many marinas as they want in S'x ... it will still be a town immersed in its artisan mining and steel culture, dominated by its emphasis on machismo and tribalism. When mixed with alcohol - well I'd rather walk through the centre of Mogadishu than down Wind Street on a Friday night! As for the women... don't get me started......

Clarkson, well he should be bound neck and ankle to his intellectual doppelganger, that prosaic , minor public school rent-boy name of A A Gill, and the pair of them dropped of Rhossili cliffs.

Slightly off track here but does anyone have any idea why the WDA have pulled the plug on the South Quay development opposite the J Shed in SA1. It was supposed to be a 7 story apartment block and the sales agents have already taken substantial deposits of plan.

I suppose it must be a problem with the grant but it all happened very suddenly, one minute the site is a hive of activity and then not a builder to be seen. Very strange [indent][/indent]!!

Is that the development on the other side of the Tawe - was going to be a triangular building on the entrance to the West Pier of the docks?

I was on rightmove last night and gave up counting properties for sale in Swansea West when I got to 2000 - 2000 - and it is only February!

That's the one. It was flying along and then nothing. The Development Board must have their reasons.

Do you remember when young couples were queuing all night to put their names down for properties in the new SA1. They are not doing it now.

Those developments on Trawler Road overlooking the dunes are terrible, they look like Soviet Stalag's when you drive into the inner court yard. £375.000 for a four bed town house which is in reality a three story terrace with garage. Who want's to look at drunks staggering around the dunes where they all seem to party when you go out on your balcony.

I wonder how many properties are currently for sale in the whole of Swansea. It's all a bit of a worry. I spent 3 days in Cheltenham last week and there are houses there close to Montpellier within a similar price range to here,

You say the WDA has pulled the plug - I thought it was a private development? Were they getting WDA grants do you know? Perhaps they have not been able to get funding re the credit crisis? Would be interesting if so as it might mean the SA1 is never finished.

I was told tonight by a reliable source that there are lots of people who have properties in the marina who are having lots of leaks/water coming in but all, bar one, has been loathe to complain publicly about it out of fear of their house/flat prices falling. I am led to believe that many are now trying to sell up before prices come down.

?

The WDA are definitely responsible for the building stoppage on that site, it can only be a grant problem. Why else would they get involved?

Your source is absolutely correct, there are loads of people currently trying to off load their apartments, they are mainly buy-to-let investors in the older part of the marina. The reason being is that the older part is now seen as a bit of a slum whereas the new SA1 development on the other side of the river is currently seen as up market and where the rental market wish to live. You only have to look in D'Arcy's window to see the huge amount of rental property available. Rental returns are decreasing.

As a matter of interest there are still apartments available in the 29 story block, the story about the billionaire arriving in his yacht to buy the 2 penthouses seems to be an urban myth as are the premier footballers clamouring to put their name down for top story apartments. I think they have decided on Dubai instead.

The leakage problem is more to do with drainage than water leaks, remember these sewage facilities are probably Victorian or at least put in to facilitate the harbour buildings. I have a feeling that the drainage from Wind Street is currently flowing our way, What a horrible thought!!

I was told that fairly 'newish' properties were having trouble with water leaks

Anyone know why so many properties in Heenage Drive, West Cross are for sale? It is a small estate.


Is it just me or is the whole of Swansea up for sale on Rightmove?

My annual skunk around S'x takes me in there . A nice development but the aspirant resident knob-heads are, as usual, in cloud cuckoo. It's not THAT nice. A 2 bedroom mid-terrace with no back garden to speak of and neighbours close enough to watch your every move , does not justify a price tag of 325,000 not unless you've been lobotomised .

But without a shadow of doubt things are now on the move downwards in S'x . John Francis's site I've followed closely and prices are dropping across the board and some significantly. I can almost feel the growing sense of panic from 10,000 miles away. 'Tis indeed a beautiful thing to behold!

For a make your day moment take a look at Derek b Phillips site in Merthyr. When you move your cursor over the house in question it says "reduced" and there are a lot of them. With lots more to come me hearties.
If things continue like this I'll be able to upgrade from a one berth static to a two berth in Llangenneth.

Thanks Gus, glad it is just not me.

Yep, totally agree about those Heneage Drive house prices. I think they start about 325 for a tiny two up two down. Several I saw on Rightmove were in the 500 to 650 mark. I think they were bought really cheaply, by today's standards, about 10 years ago so maybe all the owners have decided to bail and take their profits? I suspect it is not that quiet there as the Mumbles Road is just in front of there and ithas become very noisy right by there as traffic queues up, fumes and all.

Good spot about that Derek B Phillips site - first Welsh EA site where they are listing price drops that I have seen. I have property bee on Rightmove and have only noticed about 3 or 4 reductions in a month on over 2000 Swansea properties. One was dropped a HUGE five pounds!

I think there must be loads of worried people in Swansea though just by the sheer volume of properties that have come on the market and continue to do so. Prices are simply unrealistic and I think we will have to wait a long time for price drops to begin. It probably will take widespread Media reports of house prices dropping across the UK first but, no doubt, the local EAs will try and claim Swansea is different!

Frankly, the more time I have to think about it the more I am thinking of joining the growing exodus of people from the UK.

Correct, they know the writing is on the wall and are now desperate to unload, but..... too late. There's one in there for 389,000; it must have been on for over 18 months , no movement , but will he bite the bullet ? No way. These chancers are now in for the shock of their lives.

It sounds as though you are seriously contemplating a move. If you have the skills, I would advise you to vacate the UK. It's fine for those on skid row and those insulated by real wealth, but for the majority in between it's a disaster zone. The widening econ/social divide can be nowhere more obvious than in S'x itself.

A dumbed down population, fed a diet of money , sex and celebrity ..the modern Trinity, as someone said. Little sense of community, or of family ; degraded values and a society devoid of true meaning and self respect. Eat it, drink it, or f#@k it , is the expected MO. The Gt. in Britain is gone and will not return in our lifetime. There are infinitely better places to live ..... and mostly they're cheaper.