I was walking around parts of the Golden Triangle the other day when I went to have a look at the bed-sit apartments on Unthank Road (you know the ones!) and was amazed at the number of empty properties there were and not all had signs outside. Is there now an oversupply of rented accomodation in Norwich?

W&S posted on the old thread some properties and I too thought they looked cheap, this one especially - maybe it's an older landlord.

That's the same money as a lot landlords ask for a 2-bedroom victorian terrace, but this has 4 and does come furnished. It's also the same price as this

Hmm, I think I'll take the extra 3 bedrooms and a garden thank you - at least I can invite friends round to stay

Is this still student letting land? Could there be some downturn in the number of students from UEA?

It's definitely letting land, but the problem for landlords is the amount of new building that has gone up recently to accomodate the increasing size of the UEA as it now has a medical school. There's been loads of development at Three Score, Bowthorpe which is right near the UEA and many investors over the last few years have bought the new properties there for letting to students. The UEA has constructed loads more accomodation on-site as they realise it's an income stream they were losing out on - I think it was all finished last year and is quite impressive.... so is the income!

To make the maths easier, lets say it's 3,600 fully-furnished centrally-heated study bedrooms.




http://www.ueaaccommodation.co.uk/


OK, let's assume they let for an average of 45 weeks and do some rough calculations:

That's 2,400 @ £90.23 x 45 weeks = £9.75 Million

plus 1,200 @ £77.96 x 45 weeks = £4.21 Million

(I'm ignoring the standard accomodation as it' probably the original accomodation when the UEA was first built which is now being replaced/upgraded, so not likely to be that many of them now)

I estimate they receive a total gross rental income of around £14 Million p/a - they look to be Norwich's biggest private landlord now!

I think it shows that many of todays students don't want old Victorian terraces or later semi-detached houses from an old school landlord. In many cases, these student houses can be neglected and not managed well although they are usually cheap - but todays students want quality accomodation even if it costs them more.

Add to that the fact that (ever increasing) bills will be included for university accommodation, and you're on to a winner - some universities provide wi fi internet access throughout the campus - something else you'd have to shell out for if you lived off campus.

That said, it was always the case that you would pretty much be sure of getting halls in the first year, and then have to move off campus after that - with the increase in students, is the extra accommodation being built to house students of differing years - or just the increase in first years that comes with the medical school? Or do the numbers balance out overall- the influx of med students balances out the loss of other subject students?

I have to say though, rents seem reasonably static in University land! I was in halls (not at the UEA) ten years ago - it was not en suite, and it was the worst accommodation provided by the university, and it cost just over £42 per week - so £54 per week for their most basic accommodation isn't too bad really!

I think you're right about the change in Landlordly direction - Bowthorpe and 3 score are closer to uni, and to the hospital, and is an ideal location for the med students (as well as others) than the Golden Triangle is now - as well as the houses being more modern. Do you think we'll see a shift in the areas? Could it be that the golden Triangle will now be more populated by young professionals (who I think have always been there - in house shares and then in their own homes) and families again?

I'm in a suburb of Norwich, and there is a house that's been up for rent for a couple of months now, with no signs of shifting - they had it up for sale or to rent for a while, and now it's up with 2 two letting agents. Another in the same street took a long time to shift earlier this year - it really surprises me, as it's a popular area for people to be house hunting in, and the rents are reasonable in comparison to other places - if properties in favoured locations aren't shifting, what chance do those in less than ideal locations have?

There was just over 100 medical students that qualified last year and around 200 first year students this year so it's increased a lot in 5 years but I don't think it will get much bigger. There's a limit to the amount of student doctors there can be I think as well as the number of oversees students they can take (can't remember why)..... but it's so doctors are never unemployed!..... it's unheard of.

Edit: there again, see this thread!

I'm not sure how many students live on campus beyond the first year, but maybe it's the foreign students who have this option?. I'm not sure about the change in the GT area - seems to be lots of people renting/house sharing and the Victorian/Edwardian terrace has been a favourite with the BTL landlord. I personally don't consider it desirable any more - too many rented properties now, looking more run-down, parking is always an issue and the properties are tiny. The quaint and trendy appeal they once held has gone for me - I want something little bigger, more private and with a garage!.

I think the GT has to return to a traditional place for first-time buyers that would actually invest in the area - to me there just seems too much rented property there now and less community spirit. Two of my sisters neighbours recently sold their terraces in the GT to BTL landlords - they've lost even more community feel that they once had and gained things like dumped sofas/weeds in the front garden

I guess one quick way to keep track of this is by keeping track of the supply.

With this in mind (and knowing that this option is quicker than counting houses in the property rag!)...

This week, there are 775 properties to rent in Norwich on Rightmove.

I used any price, any size, any sort (so it has included commercial lets as well) but this area only - ie just Norwich (or what counts for Norwich on Rightmove).

It's a search anyone can do, so if I get a bit lacksadaisical (it's a real word, I'm sure...) then please feel free to add in the data, I just thought it might be another simple tally to really see what's going on in the area.

I don't fancy the last few as it means living in a garage

So I make that 767 in the Norwich area.

Searching Norwich + 1 mile gave 839 to rent (using + 3 miles starts returning property in places like Brundall)

Should we start a new thread on this and maybe analyse a few things from time to time?

ie. Cheapest 3 bedroom house (1 mile radius) is currently this at £510 per month.

Hi - a question from a newbie here.

Could you define this Golden Triangle in Norwich?

thanx

Hi Moondust, and welcome!

The Golden Triangle is a wedge from the centre of Norwich, it's two sides are the Earlham road, and the Newmarket road, and it traditionally goes out as far as the ring road (Colman Road) although nowadays I think EAs are pretty relaxed about it, and include anything as far out as the University.

Apparently it's from when what is now the Chapelfield shopping mall was the Chocolate factory - on a good day, if you lived in that area, you could smell the chocolate - and that was the Golden Triangle! I have happy childhood memories of walking through Chapelfield Gardens, the crocuses (which are still there), and enjoying the mechanical clock (which only seemed to work temporarily due to vandalism - I believe at one point the clock was in the Castle Mall, but don't know if it still is) but the smell of chocolate was amazing (my mother thinks that the smell of chocolate should be piped through the shopping mall, as a reminder of what was once there - have to say, I wouldn't object to that one!)

There is also a "Silver Triangle," which crops up in EA adverts every now and then - although I couldn't tell you where that is!

Knocking one off the top of the list, and a few parking spaces at the bottom, there are 775 properties to rent in Norwich, and 843 properties to rent within 1 mile of Norwich.

The cheapest 3 bed property within a mile was this one for £495 pcm
Unless you count this one, which is a 4 bed house share, but can't believe that the £475 pcm is per person, as that's a jolly old rip off - even with bills included!

Total piss-takers

No-one, absolutely no-one is going to pay £475 PCM for a part-share of an ordinary-looking place on the crappy side of Bowthorpe. Yeah, you can get premium values for a high-spec house-share in a happening area, but not there. The entire place isn't worth more than £600-odd PCM. Even the £320 PCM rooms sound overpriced.

Is this a VI rental agent trying to hump the value, or a delusional private landlord?

Check out that attic conversion - fantastic if you're a midget or don't mind walking around permanently stooped over Ensuite bog so crammed up against the sink that you could have a shave and an 'Ivana' at the same time

Nice touch having the room sizes in milimetres, so it sounds bigger.

Laughable. I'm sitting in a nice 3-bed bungalow with a 20-ft front room, decent kitchen, bathroom/loo & a separate shower room/loo, garage, small drive, and decent-sized garden with patio on a nice, quiet cul-de-sac in a much better area about a mile from there. £560 PCM for the whole thing, and very decent & helpful landlords too. Yeah, I have to pay the bills, but I can walk around b0110ock-naked whenever I like!

Ahh, I remember when that would have been luxury! One of my student house shares had an ingeniously placed toilet under the stairs - the toilet was at the highest point, and the sink in the low sloping part of what would normally be the cupboard under the stairs.

Such was the convenience of the convenience that if the doors were kept open, that the lads in the house (I was the only girl) could take a leak (in and around said toilet) and still be able to continue watching the football on TV in the living room...

Another problem with the Bowthorpe house share is the fact that it says it's furnished, with all new stuff - but the pictures don't show any furnishings! I would want to see the finished thing, and check that it was gold plated furniture before shelling out that much - and even then, like you say, you can get perfectly reasonable accommodation to yourself for about the same, or not much more... I hope it's on the market for a long time!

Edit to add:

Catflap's 1st post on this thread mentioned a flat on rosary road for £650 - it's still available, and has been since 15th Jan, according to the ad - will be interesting to see how long it takes to shift.

Yes, I'm really surprised no one has snapped up that little bargain yet.....

That victorian terrace on Marlborough Road at £495 is a realistic price though for that part of the city - it also gives an indication of where house prices will fall to when residential property yields hit a healthy 10% gross. When a housing boom artificially inflates the price of a house it's rental capacity still tells you what the true value of that house is, however ridiculous the selling price is.

Hi,

I think the Golden Triangle area mainly is between Ipswich Road and Dereham Road - but yes, it can fluctuate to wider areas.

I think the Silver Triangle is Silver Road area and probably stretches to Angel Road, possibly.

Sounds reasonable! I spotted a terraced house on Newmarket St for around the same price. Couldn't remember what it was like inside, though. Would have probably snapped that one up myself if I was looking for rented.

Knocking one off the top of the list, and a few parking spaces at the bottom (including one that's not even a garage - yep - a parking space for £100/month), there are 769 properties to rent in Norwich, and 843 properties to rent within 1 mile of Norwich.

parking space bargain

The cheapest 3 bed property within a mile was this one above Thorpe travel for £485/month or £495 for a 3 bed terrace on Carrow Road - which is a bargain in comparison to the rental rates for the luxury appts in the same area...

Also, for interest, obviously those York Terrace "investors" are done with their purchasing - yep, York terrace studio for £500/month - bargain!

And the Earlham flats/studios are up for rent now too - I spotted one for £340/month - sorry no link, it's there somewhere on Rightmove though!

That 3-bedroom terrace in Carrow Road would definitely be my preference to having a new-build flat in the same area and the rent is very realistic - must be a seasoned landlord because that rent would never cover a BTL mortgage if the property had been bought in the last few years.

So someone has bought a York Terrace as a BTL and is now trying to rent it out for £500/month?. Obviously City Lettings are going to take their 10% fee for managing the property..... factor in 1 months void per year as well as some legal fees etc and the income is going to fall well short of the mortage costs if this 'investor' paid around £100k. Negative cashflow from day one - I just find it hard to believe that people have still been piling into BTL properties after all the bad news out there and having the first bank run since 1866. You can almost forgive anyone that bought up to Q3 07 because no one knew where the top was going to be, but this is just crazy - subsidising a tenent by taking out a BTL after the property market has already peaked. That's a great way to lose money

I posted a link of a flat in York terrace on another forum I am on (not strictly a property one). For sale @ £107k. Wetroom leading off the lounge/studio/kitchen and a small single bedroom to the side (more or a 'walk in wardrobe', I guess. They should have been developed just as two houses, each with a gravel parking space in the front garden. The quest to squeeze as many flats out of the houses has compromised the layouts. . If I was BTL myself, I would at least make sure the property had some sort of parking.