Housing prices fell on 3rd quarter 2007 in most cities.
(Madrid -0.9%, Barcelona -0.5%)

Anual -3.5% counting inflation.

(in spanish, sorry)

http://www.eleconomista.es

More links to press talking about this:

http://news.google.es/?ncl=1156459177&hl=es&topic=b

Another report from Spain's leading property website (www.fotocasa.es) made with +500000 entries:

http://www.fotocasa.es/indice-inmobiliario__fotocasa.aspx

Spain, 3rd quarter 2007: -1.6% down (first time "negative increment" in many years)

Very complete report (in spanish, sorry) 43 pages full of charts and data:

http://www.fotocasa.es/Portals/49/Static/T...imestre2007.pdf

Thanks hypna.

http://www.housepricecrash.co.uk/forum/ind...showtopic=58048

Confirms that things are even worse for resale properties.

it's a shame that t0sser BrianR EA/ B.Shit doesn't inform us of his bullishness in the spanish market at this point

The majority of UK and other EU buyers on the Costa's are buying for a 'Life Style' reason and anyone who takes that step today will look back in a few years,having had a lot of enjoyment and see that they made the right decision and the increase in value is a bonus

Not everyone is 'stats mad'

Same as UK , in a slow market if you buy now for 'life style 'reasons it will turn out a good buy....
the dealers can look after themselves!!!

And anyone who bought during the difficult property periods in UK [ and Spain] since I have been involved in property [over 42rs] have made a good buy

Very few owners of property in EU complain about it !!!!....everyone , if they can afford it, wants to own their own home and 'many' want a holiday home as well
This is why the market in medium to long term keeps moving up
There have been relatively few times when property has been ' cheaper tomorrow' and when value stats indicate a fall it has been difficult to buy!
Why, because 'relative to the housing stock' there have been relatively few forced sales
There are always some even in boom times

Difficult to sell then too.... oh dear.

btp

Fully agree with Brian R. After this Summer which 55+ yr old would be stupid enough to want to stay in the UK. That is unless you are a sausage, PAXO, Benson and Hedges loving Brit in which case dont even bother going out there in the first place because you'll want to come back.

The speculators left Spain many years ago, most people there now and going over there in the coming years will be simply buying to retire. These people dont give a toss about 10% decreases in certain areas of Spain or market conditions. At the end of the day Spain will always be a desirable place to live and there will be ups and downs in the market.

Personally Im a bit fed up with this constant posting by people who have no idea about the Spanish Market who then berate anybody who does know something as a VI. Much like a guy from Mexico talking to us about the UK housing market and then whenever we counter argued he accussed us of being biased because we were British. "Hugo say The houses in Barnsley should be the same price as those in London" "No Hugo London is completely different to Barnsley" "Why you say this is because you own a house in UK"

Brian R is spot on when he says that forced sellers are the only ones willing to drop prices below price paid by more than 20%. These forced sellers are just as prevalent in a boom as a bust. The glut in housing stock that exists in Spain at the moment (I think 300,000) mainly consists of over eager developers building in less desirable areas and trying to charge silly prices. I went looking around a few weeks ago at an area that I really like and struggled to find a suitable property available. There were 100's of available property 2km+ away from this spot but nothing in close proximity (I even went to the bother of walking around developments asking people if they knew of anything for sale). I know lots of people looking to sell and return to the UK (of the 800,000 with homes in Spain the people doing this probably account for less than 1%) , probably about 30 people. Of these most miss grandchildren etc. All are looking to sell for more than they paid a year or so ago. None are willing to go below the price they paid, they dont have to sell but would just like to sell. If a severe crash happened they would just sit back and enjoy a rioja. A crash doesnt take away the sunshine, wine, song and fantastic food.

The majority of UK and other EU buyers on the Costa's are buying for a 'Life Style' reason and anyone who takes that step today will look back in a few years,having had a lot of enjoyment and see that they made the right decision and the increase in value is a bonus

No-one is buying on the eastern CDS at the moment. Giant swathes of apartments are lying empty.

Why buy?

I live in Duquesa in a 2 bed apartment in an established development and pay E550 per month.

E550 as a mothly mortgage interest only payment at 5.5% would mean a mortgage of E120,000, my apartment is "worth" E200,000 down from about E240,000.

Moving into the flat didn't cost me aprox 10% in buying costs, in fact in cost me nothing, not even a finders fee, as the agent was desparate to let the flat.

We are now planning to move to a 3-bed house for E500 per month!


Not everyone is 'stats mad'

Same as UK , in a slow market if you buy now for 'life style 'reasons it will turn out a good buy....
the dealers can look after themselves!!!

My lifestyle is a lot different to home owners on the CDS, I can move as often as I like, no capital gains tax to pay, no 10% buying costs, no dealing with lying scum lawyers or developers and when something goes wrong with my flat, I ring up the landlord, they come round and fix it and also pay for it!

With my rent being half what I would be paying in interest and none of the home owner responsibilities

And anyone who bought during the difficult property periods in UK [ and Spain] since I have been involved in property [over 42rs] have made a good buy

So you would prefer to buy at the top of the market and spend 10 years in negative equity. Alternatively you could rent and save the difference from your mortgage payment and be in a very strong position to buy in a few years time, when prices have fallen.

Very few owners of property in EU complain about it !!!!....everyone , if they can afford it, wants to own their own home and 'many' want a holiday home as well

People like to buy houses in a rising market, there is no logic buying in a falling market, especially when renting is half the cost of interest only.

This is why the market in medium to long term keeps moving up

No, that is inflation, just as salaries, petrol, bread, water, alcohol, ciggarettes have all increased in the medium to long term

There have been relatively few times when property has been ' cheaper tomorrow' and when value stats indicate a fall it has been difficult to buy!
Why, because 'relative to the housing stock' there have been relatively few forced sales
There are always some even in boom times

Absoulte nonsense, houses fell for many years in the early 1990's and that was in London. It will be horrific here in Spain, with the massive oversupply.

To Adibrown

Fully agree with Brian R. After this Summer which 55+ yr old would be stupid enough to want to stay in the UK. That is unless you are a sausage, PAXO, Benson and Hedges loving Brit in which case dont even bother going out there in the first place because you'll want to come back.

I completely agree with you, but with the fantastic choice of rental properties available, why buy?

The speculators left Spain many years ago, most people there now and going over there in the coming years will be simply buying to retire. These people dont give a toss about 10% decreases in certain areas of Spain or market conditions. At the end of the day Spain will always be a desirable place to live and there will be ups and downs in the market.

So you spend 10% buying costs and then you are looking at an instant 10% negative equity, with interest payments double your rent and general maintainence costs to boot. Alternatively you could rent, get a feel for the area, move about a couple of times, then a few years down the line pick up a property for peanuts.

Personally Im a bit fed up with this constant posting by people who have no idea about the Spanish Market who then berate anybody who does know something as a VI. Much like a guy from Mexico talking to us about the UK housing market and then whenever we counter argued he accussed us of being biased because we were British. "Hugo say The houses in Barnsley should be the same price as those in London" "No Hugo London is completely different to Barnsley" "Why you say this is because you own a house in UK"

The Spanish coast is toast and here's why:

• 10% purchase costs
• Prices in free-fall
• Massive over-supply
• Lying scum lawyers
• Lying, cheating scum estate agents
• Lying, cheating, thieving scum developers
• Illegal builds
• Land grab
• Renting half the cost of interest only
• Capital gains tax
• World-wide credit crunch
• Increasing costs of air travel (Peak Oil)

Brian R is spot on when he says that forced sellers are the only ones willing to drop prices below price paid by more than 20%. These forced sellers are just as prevalent in a boom as a bust. The glut in housing stock that exists in Spain at the moment (I think 300,000) mainly consists of over eager developers building in less desirable areas and trying to charge silly prices. I went looking around a few weeks ago at an area that I really like and struggled to find a suitable property available.

There will always be hotspots in a crash (NI & Scotland were hardly touched in the 90's). Quality properties in quality locations will always retain their value. However, shoebox apartments on ghost town urbanisations with no facilites, will crash and burn spectacularly

There were 100's of available property 2km+ away from this spot but nothing in close proximity (I even went to the bother of walking around developments asking people if they knew of anything for sale). I know lots of people looking to sell and return to the UK (of the 800,000 with homes in Spain the people doing this probably account for less than 1%) , probably about 30 people. Of these most miss grandchildren etc. All are looking to sell for more than they paid a year or so ago. None are willing to go below the price they paid, they dont have to sell but would just like to sell. If a severe crash happened they would just sit back and enjoy a rioja. A crash doesnt take away the sunshine, wine, song and fantastic food. -

and neither does renting

Actually there are currently 3.1 million unsold properties in Spain - over ten times your estimate. And the number is growing.



But it will take away the ability to earn the money for many that pays for the wine, song and fantastic food.

Sometimes I agree with what you post re Spain, but other times I think you aren't fully aware of the problems in Spain and with the property market today.

Why not buy and pay for your home in the uk, that takes about 25 years depending on circumstances. Then you can rent it out, move to Spain or anywhere else you may desire, and rent a property at a reasonable rate, no strings attached, no hassle, no worries. You might even be tempted to buy (at the right price) if you do happen to fall in love with an area. When you have got it all out of your system, and if/when you wish to go home you will still have a home to go back to.

If you want to rent, then rent!...your life style choice
But the majority of people in EU and the rest of the world work hard and save hard to own the 'roof over their' head
Why?
Security and and they can do what they like with it...freedom from intervening landlords
Wars have been fought over the right to own your own home
Applies to holiday /part time homes as well
This is not my own view, it is what history tells us

"There have been relatively few times when property has been ' cheaper tomorrow' and when value stats indicate a fall it has been difficult to buy!"

Brian, let me give you a clue. Every client that you have sold to in the last five years will lose money if they had to sell over the next 6 months.
REAL prices have fallen by 20-30% on the CDS over the last five years.
Have you noticed that over the last five years while the cost for practically everything has increased (energy dramatically and now food too) asking prices on property have actually fallen?
Property has been getting progressively cheaper over the last five years and how is it difficult to buy when hundreds of thousands of properties on the CDL alone are for sale? -there has never been such a great choice.
You live in a fantasy world, but I suppose that if you can find some ignorant enough punters, it is a very profitable fantasy.

People may indeed want to own their own home / holiday home.

The point is that property prices in Spain are falling so why would you encourage people who have worked hard and saved hard to buy now? Only one reason. To line your own pocket.

So let's see. There are 4 million unocupied apartments, prices are falling, sellers are desperate. It cost 1/2 price to rent then to buy.

Then why buy in 2007 and not in 2010 at maybe half-price??

If you want to rent, then rent!...your life style choice

Not just a lifestyle choice, it's common sense! With rent 50% of what interest only mortgage payments would be AND house prices falling, you would have to be mentally ill to buy a house in Spain at the moment.

But the majority of people in EU and the rest of the world work hard and save hard to own the 'roof over their' head

Really, in Germany it is 42%

http://66.102.9.104/search?q=cache:XZ_lM3M...;cd=2&gl=gi


Why?
Security and and they can do what they like with it

Can they do what they like, if they have been sold an illegal build?
Can they do what they like, if they are in negative equity?
Can they do what they like, if they need to sell their property quickly?
Can they do what they like, if they move out and let their property, but then discover the rent doesn't cover the mortgage?

...freedom from intervening landlords

You pay your rent on time, you don't see your landlord! Although, they do have to come round and fix/replace anything that has gone wrong!

Wars have been fought over the right to own your own home

Really, which wars?

Applies to holiday /part time homes as well

It's even more bonkers to buy a holiday home in Spain. With purchase costs approx 10%, falling prices and then you have your interest payments on top! Just book a villa for two weeks, you'll be quids-in AND you can go to a different resort on every trip!

This is not my own view, it is what history tells us

History tells me never to believe a word an estate agent says.

Where did you get this figure from? Please provide link to source.



The estimated 1000 Brits affected accounts for less than 1% of all UK Spanish Property Owners.



Errr Yes



Yes



Well first of all you will always have the 10% costs and if you have a mortgage, interest payments unfortunately are a part of the deal whenever you buy. In my opinion NOW is the time to buy in Spain. You'll be able to pick up some bargains from those that need to sell and before prices start to rise again in some areas. The other week I was dissappointed to find that I had been gazumped on a couple of places I was looking at in a specific area and unfortunately just a load of crap remains (about 300,000 - the prices of these are dropping to a more realistic level but only a mug would buy them - area about 3km away). If anything in this specific location comes up for sale I'm snapping it up without a second thought but because of the type of buyer in this area I think I may have missed the boat. In a good area just buy when you can that is my advice.

i also think its not a bad time to buy in spain for anyone that can put in the effort there are some bargains around. just choose the right location and property

Forgive me AdiBrown, but you sound like a typical CDL agent.
"Buy now to avoid disappointment" is their motto -there is always a "foreign cash buyer" who is interested in the same property so "time is of the essence".

You are entitled to your opinion. Here is mine.

The crisis in the housing market has barely started. At the start of the year we were told that the downturn in the US housing market and their subprime problem would not affect us. Well now it indisputably has, and apparently with a time lag.
So now that prices are falling in Europe, what does the present sitaution in the States say about our future? Well over there the generally held view says that the market will worsen over the next few years and will come off another 10-15%. That is what we have got to look forward to here.

While the western central banks are talking about cutting rates, the ECBs Webber talked today about the need for higher rates in Europe. But whatever happens to base rates, you can be certain that mortgage rates will rise -that's how the credit crunch will affect the general public.

To pick you up on a small point Adi, yes ~10% is the current cost of purchasing a property in Spain. However tax rates change, and at some point during a downturn the politicians will have to try to find a way to support the housing market. Bringing purchasing costs in line with other modern economies is a good remedy, and due to the fact that the developers fund the politicians, I would say a highly likely one.

Renting is cheap -let the next few years unwind before you purchase. One things for sure -other than estate agents /developers propaganda, there is nothing to suggest that prices will be any higher in 2010. Nothing.

(Please if anyone can find a reputable independent source that predicts price rises -please supply)

There are plenty of places with this information. If you cannot find it then you are not interested so why bother??

I'm not sure where you get your figures from, but 1,000 Brits affected by buying illegal builds in Spain is well shy of the truth. Where did you get this estimate?

In Catral alone - a small community - hundreds of British families have been affected:

http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/news/article...omes/article.do

In Malaga province, the number is into the thousands.

The reality is a lot of other people won't realise they have bought an illegal build until they come to sell or the local authorities knock on their door.

I cannot believe that anyone but yourself, those trying to sell and EAs / developers think NOW is the time to buy in Spain. And most of them don't think it either - they just want to earn money. If you think there are bargains to be had now - give it a year or two.

FYI.

http://www.reuters.com/article/lifestyleMo...03?pageNumber=1

To be fair to Adi, he does strike me as a chap of some good taste, and I'm sure wherever he is looking to buy will afford him many years of enjoyment.

*hugs*

btp

PS. Thanks for the article winkie - seems to tally with what us city dwellers are seeing on the ground.