Hi Grumpy

I totally agree that the situation is very serious. No doubt about it!

What I'm not so certain about is a strategy for dealing with it. There are just too many unknown unknowns

All I'm saying is, I don't think it is wise for anyone to put all their eggs in one basket. I bought a modest quanity quanity of gold at the beginning of the week. I will also buy some foreign currency and maybe buy some NS&Is. I've taken my car off the road and stopped any unnecessary direct debits. I took immediate action by closing my bank account and tranferring my cash to a mutual building society as a temporary measure. I'm single, no credit cards, no bank loans, no kids to support, a modest mortgage. I cycle to work.

My advice is.....

Do lots of small things....as described above

Don't use credit cards or bank credit

Eat well

Exercise

Have a good social life

LIVE

Shag lots

Drink modestly

Smoke a cigar once in a while for good measure!

It ain't the end of the world

But how did we get out of the great depression? As yes, the small matter of World War II. Now, where did I put that map of the middle east...

You know what the consequences of WW3 are don't ya?

It wont serve the interests of the elite to destroy the entire productive capacity of the developed world and render it uninhabitable.

Unless they are mad enough to consider some pretty drasic world depopulation..........

Not impossible I suppose.....

But I think I'll gamble on more modest measures

Well as I saw it things did not really take off again until the mid 50s.

I grew up very poor and I mean very poor as I am sure some posters on here have too.
Life does go on. I survived and I am sure I could survive again.

But it is cold and miserable at times.

Right on!

And I live in a house with no central heating

And it is FREEZING!

Get a hot water bottle on your knees with a blanket and one on your feet, luxury!
Been there brrrr...

And a bottle of red wine!

In the UK yes, the US did slightly better, I think the transfer of wealth from the UK to the US as a result of WWII really helped the US on their way to global superpower status. The rise of Hitler and Mussolini was of course directly related to the problems caused by the depression; when people are hungry and can't afford to heat their homes or clothe their families they will vote for anyone who looks like they will make things better.

No he is anti Zionist; there is a big difference.

yep, I know exactly what you mean. Makes you strong though & you find you can cope with anything.

I have to laugh cos I live like someone from the 1950's

No car

No heating

No credit

No television

No fancy holidays

Nobody can accuse me of living beyond my means!



Ahhhhh! But I do have the internet

You have to ask why are Barclays borrowing large amounts of money from the Fed when the BoE is the UKs central bank:

http://www.reuters.com/article/businessNew...me=businessNews

[quote name='mattsta1964' date='Nov 24 2007, 11:13 PM' post='862482']
I have to laugh cos I live like someone from the 1950's

Flippin' eck we can go full on armageddon, apocalypse and you won't even notice!

The poor in the 50s went hop picking, even that was classed as a fancy holiday.

Yeah! I'm sorted!

No credit cards in my wallet!

I'll be living on baked sawdust for the next 5 years!

I'm building my own nuclear reactor in the garden shed too So I'll be OK!

http://www.bbc.co.uk/pressoffice/pressrele...survivors.shtml

Beeb are going to do a remake of the 1970's cult series 'Survivors'

Do they know something we don't? Shouldn't we be told?

pmsl

Forgive my 1946 mentality 80's gurly, but what does pmsl mean?

Toilet humour sorry! Pi**ed myself laughing.

Another acronym to add to the collection!

I just learned ROFLMAF

The complications of inernet banter!

I remember Warren Buffett a few years ago saying that the over inflated derivatives market, in particular the credit derivatives market posed the greatest risk to global economic stability. Something don't add up 'ere. Why's Buffett reportedly interested in Northern Rock? Could it be he knos the financial system is about to be fiddled again by the central and commercial banks?

A drop to, not by, 10% of net asset value.

This is the mark of the derivative beast.

Protect yourselves.

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=206...&refer=bond
CPDO Sold by UBS Fails as Value Drops, Moody's Says
By Kabir Chibber

Nov. 23 (Bloomberg) -- A constant proportion debt obligation sold by UBS AG became the first to collapse, after a drop to 10 percent of net asset value forced the fund to sell its holdings, according to Moody's Investors Service.

The Series 103 Financial Basket Tyger Notes, which had a top Aaa rating as recently as September, was downgraded nine levels to C, the lowest ranking, from Ba2, New York-based Moody's said in a statement today. The CPDO, sold by Zurich-based UBS through its Elm BV unit, had 47.5 million euros ($70.5 million) in principal and had been cut twice by Moody's in the past two months.

CPDOs are securities that pay investors from income earned by selling credit-default swaps, a type of insurance contract used primarily to speculate on corporate creditworthiness. The value of some CPDOs has fallen as banks and securities firms have written down $50 billion of securities linked to bad U.S. home loans, driving credit-default swap prices on companies including Citigroup Inc. and Bear Stearns Cos. to the highest on record.

A way MUST be found, but CAN'T be found because it DOES NOT EXIST.

Spectacular domino defaults will soon start.

This is 100% correct, guaranteed.

Protect yourselves.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/money/main.jhtm...5/cnsivs125.xml
Sivs to be broken up and sold

By Helen Power
Last Updated: 12:52pm GMT 25/11/2007

The specialist investment funds at the heart of the credit crunch are to be broken up and sold on by advisers.

Bank of New York, the investors' trustee in Mainsail, a structured investment vehicle (Siv) designed by Barclays' investment banking arm, Barcap, has appointed boutique investment bank Houlihan Lokey Howard & Zukin to find buyers for its assets.

Separately, Blackstone is advising the creditors of Golden Key, another Barcap vehicle, on a break-up sale. Barcap provided both Golden Key and Mainsail with temporary lines of funding, but Mainsail investors rejected a Barcap rescue package in favour of a sale.

Bankers are watching the fate of these investment vehicles with interest for any signs of more trouble to come from the $400bn worth of Sivs still in existence. A way must be found to allow them to trade properly again or investment banks will be forced to take a massive charge on their balance sheets, sending liquidity plummeting.

In July, moneyweek were reporting the problem was about $300bn

Theyve (banks etc) declared about $90bnso far, i read here recently.

Now there is $400bn.

that means the increase in these obligations has RISEN more than they are declaring.

And the defaults have barely started here and in Australasia.

But dont worry, gordon assures me we have strong economy, low interest rates blah di blah!!

Or have I read it wrong.

Warren Buffett's words were:

He was referring to derivatives in general, not just credit derivatives.

It's worth reading Buffett's comments in the 2002 Berkshire Hathaway report about derivatives, very enlightening stuff.
A number of people from various areas of the derivatives industry came out with rebukes to Buffett, but the problem is credibility, after all Buffett was the last person John Meriwether called when he needed money to bail out LTCM. He accepted dinner, but declined to bail out the hedge fund.

until you see Buffett on Bloomberg telling anyone & everyone what a "great bank NR is" I wouldn't believe it. If he does make 'that' appearance he must have bigger worries over and above NR, or be sacrificing something politically in order to benefit elsewhere...somehow

That's right, something like global turnover of real things was $20 trillion and derivates were at $125 trillion. I'm a simple bin man, so these financial instruments baffle the hell out of me. Understand the basics that hedge funds and other speculators can make poor people starving in one mornings trade. It's all nonsense and it will come to an end. Along with being a bin man I'm also a farmer by the way. Just thought you should know that piece of trivia.

Hi Pluto,

I have only listened to them once up to now, I found them enlightening. I intend to play them again without a doubt.

I advise eveyone to download these & listen to them, even if your economic knowledge is minimal, the message will get across imo. You could always pause them & do a google to enhance/explain the difficult bits, although it is explained very well imo.

thanks for posting them,

G-O-M

Love this chart.....

Ditto... though, I have to say, I found them disturbing as much as informative. There was clearly an alternative agenda... and a whole load of Jewish conspiracy twaddle.

Can I ask, what do you think of them, Pluto?

what does this mean then zinny01.

I haven't bloody got any though.

hey where's GF ?

GF stop counting your coins in the cellar & get on t'internet.

Japanese Shift Cash Out of U.S. Investments

November 23, 2007

TOKYO, Nov. 22 — Many in Japan are starting to speak of “quitting America,” but they are not talking about a rise in anti-American political fervor. Rather, they mean a move away from American investments that is altering global capital flows and helping to weaken the dollar.

The move is seen in decisions of individual investors like Daijo Okudaira, a 66-year-old clerk at a Tokyo consulting company. Like many Japanese, Mr. Okudaira had long limited his overseas investments to the relative safety of securities from developed countries, particularly the United States.

Starting late last year, however, Mr. Okudaira made drastic changes to his portfolio, putting $50,000 into mutual funds focusing on stocks in China and other emerging economies. He said he had been drawn to these countries because they seemed to hold much brighter growth prospects than the United States.

“People say the engine of the global economy is shifting from the United States to emerging countries,” Mr. Okudaira said. “Emerging countries have growth and energy that America and Europe lack. They remind me of Japan 40 years ago.”

The music is about to stop.

Protect yourselves.

http://www.usatoday.com/money/markets/2007...22-stocks_N.htm
Cracks appear all over Wall Street; bears may be prowling

NEW YORK — The rout on Wall Street is no longer confined to financial stocks. Fault lines are now visible for virtually every type of stock, a shift that could portend a more serious downturn for the broad U.S. market.

So when will we see the next UK bank run?

Or the next large scale bale out a la Norther Rock?

How come there's nothing written about your concerns in the UK media (surely there must be some mavericks, a great chance to make a name for yourself, surely!)

How come city insiders aren't cashing up and selling their equities?

Just wait and see.

I bought so many, I had to count a lot.

Seriously, sometimes even I need a little break. But since the (financial) times seem to be getting tougher, I had some gold with me on my travel. You never know when the system will collapse, and you want to be able to pay for your journey back home.

Wow, interesting site!

I see they are promoting what appears to be a very restrained and scholarly piece of research into Zionism: "Synagogue of Satan, the secret history of Jewish world domination" (one must admire the tasteful star of David dripping blood on the cover!) It even has a credibility-enhancing forward by noted intellectual Texe Marrs, author of the sober and understated "Codex Magica: Secret Signs, Mysterious Symbols, and Hidden Codes of the Illuminati" ("You'll see with your own eyes the world's leading politicians and celebrities - including America's richest and most powerful - caught in the act as they perform occult magic." http://www.ufoarea.com/marrs_texe_codex.html )

Some very "illluminating" links down the right-hand side, too. Let's see:
* faking the London bombings
* important and unreadable information about how Ashkenazi Jews aren't really Jewish (or are - it's unreadable!)
* A very important news story about how an American - sorry: Zionist - college girl put some swastikas on her door
* A n essential list of Jews in government - "this is just the tip of the iceberg"! Zionists, every last one, I'm sure!

Well, the trouble with banking conspiracy theories is that it's a very short step to Jewish banking conspiracy theories, and thence to a very old strand of anti-semitic thinking (be it dressed up as anti-Zionist, or whatever: that last distinction is a plea that has been made by the raving right (John Birchers, Liberty Lobby, KKK, etc.) in the US since straightforward antisemitism became outright unacceptable (at least in public).

I'm not saying, by the way, that I find the political position of the present Israeli government acceptable either. There is clearly a valid distinction to be made between antisemitic raving and criticism of an existing regime. But that site is well inside the civic boundaries of Nutsville.

They know what's coming and they can do nothing to prevent it.

This is 100% correct, guaranteed.

Protect yourselves.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/money/main.jhtm.../bcnbean126.xml
Bank of England warns credit crisis to worsen

By Angela Monaghan
Last Updated: 10:17am GMT 26/11/2007

The Bank of England's chief economist has warned that the impact of the credit crunch on the banks may only be the tip of the iceberg.

Charles Bean said that the banks have so far reported "only a relatively small fraction of the likely losses associated with the US sub-prime market."

"It is quite likely that, over the coming months, there will be more revelations to come out, not necessarily just in this country," he added.

The message from Mr Bean comes after Goldman Sachs warned earlier this month that sub-prime mortgage losses could force banks to slash lending by $2,000bn (£980bn) and push the United States into a deep recession.

EDIT typo

Hurr hurr... Mr Bean.. Hurr!

They are trying desperately to prevent the market from finding a price for their toxic assets.

This requires exponentially increasing amounts of money, which central banks are trying desperately to inject in the system. Note also how major media outlets can't even agree on the amount.

It won't work, and the liquidity injected will cause global hyperinflation.

This is 100% correct, guaranteed.

http://uk.reuters.com/article/businessNews...26?rpc=401&
HSBC restructures SIVs
Mon Nov 26, 2007 10:38am GMT

LONDON (Reuters) - Europe's biggest bank HSBC Holdings (HSBA.L: Quote, Profile, Research) said on Monday it was restructuring its two structured investment vehicles (SIVs), Cullinan and Asscher, to support them in the face of continued funding difficulties.

HSBC said in a statement it would provide a combination of liquidity facilities and term funding which it expected to total $35 billion (16.9 billion pounds) by August 2008, and as a result would consolidate the two SIVs onto its balance sheet.

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=206...&refer=home
HSBC Will Take on $45 Billion of Assets From Two SIVs (Update1)

By Neil Unmack and Sebastian Boyd

Nov. 26 (Bloomberg) -- HSBC Holdings Plc, Europe's largest bank, will add $45 billion of assets to its balance sheet by consolidating two structured investment vehicles it manages.

If you had to construct a road map to explain the chain of events likely to happen from here what would it look like ?

A kodak moment

Allow me to reply on Cgnao's behalf.

Looks like an orgy for the perverted

What does an orgy for the non perverted look like ?

These articles suggest to me that HSBC think the assets match the funds value and they are restructuring to make them more transparent. Whats the problem?

This is the problem. The 'assets' value is falling day by day.

Having listen to the 2 recordings you posted, it's quite clear (particularly at the end of the second recording) that the presenter is a rabid anti-semite.

The British guy being interviewed is more muted but I've visited his website and he is clearly very much the same.

Honestly, it worries me that people on this forum take these people seriously. Yes, things are bad, but taking these peoples' opinions as gospel is pretty pathetic frankly.